ADVICE on ward tax

[fatslug]

ok so my current ward office is sending me many notices about paying up....they even contacted my company......

Today i recieved a fax but this time from the old ward that i use to live in....the new ward mustve informed the old ward or the old ward mustve got hold of the info that i was still in japan somehow.....

So i supposedly need to pay 2 ward offices.......
i dont really care but the fact they are contacting my company is pissing me off !

what should i do.......

dont wanna pay no ward tax ! :evil:

any advice greatly appreciatedf !

[Mulboyne]

The penalties on late payment are high so I suggest you work out what you want to do quickly. If you are planning on staying in Japan then you can't avoid ward tax. This is not the NHK guy; ward tax is a standard tax and you are obliged to pay.

[Taro Toporific]

MOVE.

If you move enough among wards, you never have to pay. Unfortunately now you have become "high profile" so they're going to hound you.

This is the Buddha's way of telling you to LEAVE FUCKING JAPAN ---- Buddha is wise if the tax and penality is higher than 5 million. 8)

Taro, who-never-paid-ward-tax-for-9-years-until-my-company-ratted-me-out-and-started-deducting-the-tax-automatically

[FG Lurker]

Basically, you're fucked. You have three choices:

1. Pay.

2. Change companies and move out of the CITY (not just ward) that you are in now.

3. Leave Japan.

However, with the increase of computers in city/ward offices there is a good chance they will find you again even if you change cities. It's gotten much harder to avoid this kind of thing.

I suggest going down and negotiating with them. Plead ignorance (I didn't know about this, etc etc) but DO NOT get angry. You may be able to get them to reduce the amount you have to pay.

Pay it off. Then get your company to automatically deduct the amount from your salary. Then you don't have to worry about it anymore.

The tax office in Japan will not give up, so don't think that you can ignore it and they will go away. Trust me... ;)

[Taro Toporific]

Basically, you're fucked.
...
DO NOT get angry. You may be able to get them to reduce the amount you have to pay...

Gr-r-r-reat advice Lurker. I still think the Shinto gods are hinting for fatslug's leaving Japan.

However, I have many Japanese translator-editor friends who have RECENTLY been caught by the new Big-Brother computer system. One of first to get caught was my freelance Japanese editor who was 5 years behind in Machida. All she had to cry a lot and they reduced the amount she had to pay by 50% spred over 3-year period which has already past and the payments have been extended again for 2 years.

Bottom Line: How cute is your bottom in micro-miniskirt fatslug?

http://www.we-blog.jp/sea/taro/upload/taro1097719066.jpg

[FG Lurker]

Bottom Line: How cute is your bottom in micro-miniskirt fatslug?Maybe bring along a "helper" who looks good in micro-miniskirt. :D

The ward office chased me about taxes on 2 million in extra income. They really don't give up... It's not like it was 100million yen or something!!

The other thing is that once they catch you once they watch you closely after that... :cry:

[dimwit]

The purpose of ward taxes is to pay for all the city services you use like gate ball parks. They also give you the right to have righteous indignation towards Gaijin-hating retirees.　'Don't scowl at me! I'M paying for your gate ball park asshole!'

[sillygirl]

A J friend of mine moved areas, so the last ward took her unpaid taxes out of her bank account.

I read somewhere (sorry, will find the link later) that they will write to all the banks to see if you have an account there.

Need to be closing your bank account, mate.

Let me go and find that link......

.....ok, found it http://202.221.217.59/print/features/life2004/fl20041228zg.htm

Ms. Sakuma of Minato City Office's Residents Tax Payment Section explained that first they will research someone's bank account by sending letters to all the banks, to find out if that person has any money.

According to the law, the City Office is entitled to any information that may assist in the collection of this debt. They then seize the money before notifying the resident by letter afterward.



Oooh, dat nasty 8O

[sludge]

what should i do.......

dont wanna pay no ward tax ! :evil:

any advice greatly appreciatedf !


I got to agree with "Dimwit"

I am all in favor of lower taxes
But, Services do cost money.

And the ward tax is pretty reasonable.

My Advice is....

Pay Your Taxes!!!

By not paying them, you are just adding to the stigma about how foreigners don't pay their taxes and how they are always trying to rip off the system.

[Ketou]

By not paying them, you are just adding to the stigma about how foreigners don't pay their taxes and how they are always trying to rip off the system.

What do you mean stigma? That's exactly what I'm trying to do! :twisted:

[kamome]

I flew the coop without paying my ward taxes and they somehow found my address in the US and STILL hound me about paying off the arrears. I will do that, but can't pay it off all at once.

[Reddeville]

Why should you care about the ward tax when you go home if its for good? All this talk about `owing` Japan when they refuse to give us rights and steal a citizen`s tax from us when we are denied the right to be one, makes me unsympathetic to their money-grabbing schemes.

Remember - they are robbing you with the pension payments you will never get back in full or even half. Morally and ethically you have the right not to pay your ward tax because of the dishonesty of the authorities. Don`t pay it if you don`t want to go back. If you get a letter at your home address send it back - Not at this address.

[Maths Dude]

At what income does ward tax kick in? My scam was that my 'employer' got me a work visa saying he was paying 250,000 yen/month, but in reality I was getting 150,000, and I paid only tax on that, which was really low. The extra yen I got was cash in hand (with other employers) which brought me a little over 300k/month. I never got hassled for anythin, even my national heal insurance bill was 6,000 a month.

[hakuman]

Why should you care about the ward tax when you go home if its for good? All this talk about `owing` Japan when they refuse to give us rights and steal a citizen`s tax from us when we are denied the right to be one, makes me unsympathetic to their money-grabbing schemes. [quote]

What are you talking about? You can become a citizen if you want. You just sound like a crying little boy who wants to have his cake and eat it to (i.e. live in the country, but not pay to support it)

[quote]Remember - they are robbing you with the pension payments you will never get back in full or even half. Morally and ethically you have the right not to pay your ward tax because of the dishonesty of the authorities.

How exactly are the authorities dishonest? They tell you exactly how much you will get back, and that you wont get it all back. Its their country, they can set the rules they want. If you dont like it, stay a few years, apply for citizenship, run for office, and try to change the rules. Until then, quit whining like a little bitch, and/or go home and leave the country to the people who dont make us all look like the fuckin bum that you are.

[Maths Dude]

All forms of personal income Tax are wrong. They just rob you and you get nothing in return. Probably most of the tax goes to pay for the governments fuck ups, why should we pay for that? They fucked up, not us!

[Reddeville]

Maths Dude - don`t agree with all of your post (I reckon there IS obligation to pay a country`s charges but not in all situations) but I like your style!

Haku or the vomit man or whatever you call yourself, go and spew on somebody else. Like those sneaking city hall officials who will give you less than 300,000 back city pension refund when you leave although you paid double, triple or more to them.

The law is the law but it`s not always ethical and can be unjust. The many ways Japanese officialdom discriminate against foreigners but are always there counting us as `Japanese` when they want us to pay to support their dying system (dying cause of xenophobia) is for me an example of unjust laws.

Foreigners support their system and don`t get their benefits. So again - if you leave Japan without paying ward tax or NHK or that pension system, power to you.

[hakuman]

Excuses excuses. Anyone can justify reasons not to pay stuff if they want. Doenst make them any less of a bitch to those of us who see you for what you are though.

Like I say, go back home. Get the fuck out of the country if you dont like it. No one is making you stay, and on the contrary, there are many of us who wish you werent here.

[Maths Dude]

What country is irrelevant. Income Tax is wrong full stop. Its people like hakuman who follow the other lemmings over the cliff. When somethings wrong you gotta fix it, not take it up the ass. Unless you like that kind of thing :roll:

[FG Lurker]

All forms of personal income Tax are wrong. They just rob you and you get nothing in return. Probably most of the tax goes to pay for the governments fuck ups, why should we pay for that? They fucked up, not us!
On many levels I agree with you. I pay quite a lot of tax and it drives me nuts.

However, how do you propose to pay for all the gov't actions that are needed for daily life? I mean things like transportation infrastructure (airports, sea ports, roads, mass transit) as well as things like the military, police, fire service, etc.

[Maths Dude]

I am against income tax, not taxes for roads etc. Pay for what you use I say. More than 1/2 of the money you pay on gasoline is tax. Where does that go ? I dont think much income tax goes to roads. JR is a private company right? Even if its not you pay for the service. Hospitals arent free, you pay tax on anything you buy, and they STILL want a slice of your hard earned cash.

Here in Oz we pay about 30% income tax, and a 10% GST. But hospital is free, even if you need a transplant etc. Also, if you have a kid they give you 4,000 bucks no questions asked. You get to keep it too, coz hospital is free remember. In japan you get 500,000 yen but it goes the damn hospital!

Where does your income tax go? Please tell me. I have no idea!

[FG Lurker]

I think governments should be much much more accountable for where money goes. Basically after every fiscal year they should have to produce financial reports and account for all the money they spend, just as any private company does. These reports should be presented and explained to the general public.

As to where your income tax is going, well, the list is clearly too long for any one person to put in a post on FG. Some examples I would give are:

transportation infrastructure (as mentioned above)
policing services
fire services
military
coast guard
customs and immigration services
hospital and other medical care (in some countries anyway)
rescue services

There is certainly a ton of waste packed in there too...And that of course is the problem. Transparency and accountability are needed.

[Maths Dude]

The tax rate to pay only for those services you just mentioned would be about 2-3% max. The fact is alot of the income tax goes to paying off the massive debt the government booked up. Therefore as the debt increases, schools, hospitals, law enforcement simply start crumbling - look at the UK for example. Unfortunately I have to agree, every cent should be accounted for.

[FG Lurker]

The tax rate to pay only for those services you just mentioned would be about 2-3% max. The fact is alot of the income tax goes to paying off the massive debt the government booked up. Therefore as the debt increases, schools, hospitals, law enforcement simply start crumbling - look at the UK for example. Unfortunately I have to agree, every cent should be accounted for.
If you were able to tax the gross sales of companies and tax gross salary of every individual then 2 to 3% would be workable. Otherwise things climb.

Gov'ts borrow for many reasons, some good, some not. Borrowing to pay for a necessary road or airport is pretty much unavoidable. Borrowing money to give it away to other countries should be forbidden. Basically the gov't should have to justify why it needs to borrow money and what that money is to be used for.

I really think we could solve quite a few problems if government was truly accountable for the money spent (and received!). If a private company tried to work like the government does they'd be in a massive shitpile of trouble -- both from the tax collectors and from their own investors.

[Maths Dude]

Lincoln paid for the civil war simply by creating money at 0% interest. There is a conspiracy that he was killed because the big bankers feared that he would shut them down and have the goverment print money at 0.1% interest (to pay for admin). Kennedy was also thinking about this system too. So he was also killed off. In Australia, one of our former prime ministers simply vanished (Harold Holt) after also mentioning such a system.

So what we have is a bunch of privetly owned banks creating money at the stroke of a key. Meanwhile those who take out the loan must pay back more than what was lent. They do no work what so ever, just type a few keys on the keyboard, yet we must slave for 20 - 30 years.

And if you do the simple maths on a piece of paper, you will see that there is never enough money in circulation to pay off all debt. Therefore, more money must be lent to keep the system from collapsing. There is actually a mathematical limit to how long such a system can last (the snowball just gets too big).

[Maths Dude]

Dont you think its odd that something that takes 4 months to build, maybe 5 staff @ 35 hrs/week, so thats 3,000 odd hours? Takes 30 years to pay off?

[FG Lurker]

There are three types of people when it comes to money:

Those who don't "get it" at all.
Those who "get it" yet do nothing (and/or complain about it).
and
Those who "get it" and make use of the system to their own benefit.

[Maths Dude]

Sure, but who is to say we cannot make the 'system' better? Complaining is a good first step! Go ask your local homeless if he 'gets it'. The current system is not fair and never has been and is not set up to be fair. The system is set up in such a way is that there must be losers, no matter how much people try. Some will win and be very comfortable, and will fight to keep what they have. Others will just survive, and there are others who will lose through no fault of their own.

Remember there is never enough money in circulation to pay off all debt, therefore someones gotta lose.

[FG Lurker]

Sure, but who is to say we cannot make the 'system' better? Complaining is a good first step! Go ask your local homeless if he 'gets it'. The current system is not fair and never has been and is not set up to be fair. The system is set up in such a way is that there must be losers, no matter how much people try. Some will win and be very comfortable, and will fight to keep what they have. Others will just survive, and there are others who will lose through no fault of their own.
What system would you suggest in its place? It's been shown clearly that a system that makes everyone "equal" just turns almost all people into something very near the lowest-common-denominator. And any system that does not make everyone exactly equal will eventually end up being similar to what we have today.

Remember there is never enough money in circulation to pay off all debt, therefore someones gotta lose.
Yep, someone's gotta lose. The trick is to make sure it's not yourself.

[hakuman]

Sure, but who is to say we cannot make the 'system' better? Complaining is a good first step!

Complaining is a waste of time. Complaining is in fact counter productive, because it just annoys people. Dont complain, do something. Complaint without action just makes people look like whiney bitches.

[Midwinter]

Sure, but who is to say we cannot make the 'system' better? Complaining is a good first step!

Complaining is a waste of time. Complaining is in fact counter productive, because it just annoys people. Dont complain, do something. Complaint without action just makes people look like whiney bitches.

And in the process, you're complaining about his complaining without doing anything else about it. Neat! :lol:

Back on the subject at hand, I stopped paying my "citizen's" tax 2 years ago. Furthermore, I quizzed the local ward office about the differences in the Pension system between locals and gaijin, and much to my amusement they admitted the situation was obviously discrimatory, but were at a loss to do anything about it. Which I thought was just wonderful :?

[hakuman]

And in the process, you're complaining about his complaining without doing anything else about it. Neat!

The irony kills me :P

But, the truth is, I will do something. I will offer a suggestion. It goes something along the lines of "shut the fuck up and quit whining". Should solve the problem!

[Mulboyne]

Remember there is never enough money in circulation to pay off all debt
You repeat this comment but it makes no sense. Money in circulation is a flow concept. Debt is a stock concept.

[Maths Dude]

For all the idiots who dont get it.

Money only comes into circulation through LOANS.

You borrow $100, and have to pay $107, thus you cannot pay back the loan. Therefore more money must be 'lent'. Even a child can understand that, you bunch of dickheads.

[Reddeville]

Spewman is just another bitter gaijin ranting about other foreigners. For the info of all here I pay my income tax with NO problem. I don`t hide income, I don`t have privates so don`t earn cash, and I always take every record of every yen earned to the tax office here each year.

No problem with that. I pay my local city hall unwillingly because they would have to be one of the most incompetent of their kind in the world let alone Japan. Their staff have abused the system, they openly talk about `Gaijin` when foreigners walk into the office - just what we need, open discrimination in our city hall. I`m not a customer - I`m a Gaijin. To think those scummy, classless `employees` are employed courtesy of my money.

I pay income tax, I pay ward tax, I pay their cheating health insurance/pension system. Cheating because the pension part has to go down as one of the most cynical scams ever. `You Gaijin can pay into pur pension system and we`ll loot you for as long as you stay here. When you go we`ll pay you a token amount.` `You Gaijin can also pay citizens` tax even though we make it very difficult for you to ever become one.`

We support these people and we get this kind of garbage thrown at us all the time. Don`t pay your city hall if it`s like mine - a corrupt, inaka cesspit full of people who feel they are on the lower rungs of Japanese society and have to try and sink their slippered feet into us. Where`s a good pair of heavy workboots when you need to visit city hall next?

Bottom line - follow the rules here on income tax, pay the city hall robbers their dues when you need to be on a visa here but when you are leaving, slip out leaving their ward tax/health insurance/pension unpaid.

Even if you pay up when you leave you`ll still have to probably pay for as long as up to a year at city hall before you exit the country. Last time I looked my country wasn`t robbing Japanese `Gaijin` by demanding money for when they weren`t going to be using the health system because - dur, they were going to be living in Japan.

Most city halls are disgraces. Don`t encourage them - especially when you are in your home country. Better, keep their letters if they have the absolute arse to send them to your home address when you`ve gone home, and let them keep wasting postage.

[hakuman]

Spewman is just another bitter gaijin ranting about other foreigners

Only the bitches. Only the bitches.
For that matter, you are just another bitter gaijin ranting about Japanese ppl. The difference is, Im happy here. You sure dont appear to be. Thats why I say, go home. If its so bad, go back to your own country where you can do something about it. Or else become a citizen of this country and do something about it. Cause right now you are just a whiney bitch.

`You Gaijin can pay into pur pension system and we`ll loot you for as long as you stay here. When you go we`ll pay you a token amount.`

Or, you could actually try staying here the 25 years and collecting on it. They dont say you cant do that. In this regard, they treat us better than they treat themselves. You think a Japanese person who emigrates to another country gets a 3 year reimbursement of the pension they have been paying into? Not a fuckin chance. (at least I dont think. I guess I could be wrong).

`You Gaijin can also pay citizens` tax even though we make it very difficult for you to ever become one.`


But you CAN become one. Just because its difficult doesnt mean its impossible. Why should they have to make it easy? Cause your country does? Thats a fuckin joke.

[FG Lurker]

For all the idiots who dont get it.

Money only comes into circulation through LOANS.

You borrow $100, and have to pay $107, thus you cannot pay back the loan. Therefore more money must be 'lent'. Even a child can understand that, you bunch of dickheads.
It all depends on what you do with the money you borrow. If you spend it on a house [Edit: or car/boat/other toy] (which will only ever cost you more money) then you lose and pay that interest.

If you use someone else's money (aka borrowed money) to make more money then you won't have problems paying it back and the interest is just another business expense. It's even tax deductible in a lot of cases!

[Reddeville]

There goes spewman again only reading what he wants to read in my post. I PAY MY DUES in Japan - I have never cheated the tax office in any way, I have paid everything on time. I have never had a reminder notice for anything. I have moved 4 times and each time made sure I paid my ward tax even though my new city halls probably couldnt have tracked me down.

That doesn`t mean I have to be blind to or happy about the parasitical system here that targets law abiding foreigners continually by all this talk in the media and printed material bordering on criminal libel about the foreign community in Japan.

The foreigner community in Japan supports a system that makes it normal to discriminate against foreigners in every aspect of life. Including in fake `pension payments` that prop up a greedy, incompetent system where our money will go to support the Japanese population but which is not appreciated by the same population by and large if their silence on this country`s xenophobia is anything to go by.

A population which has a constant them about foreigner criminality and other choice generalisations but which is relying on us for its old age pension payments. You are outside, you are outsiders - but of course you are Japanese when it comes to paying fake `citizens` taxes` and fantasy future pension payments. Bitching about my post by calling me a bitch (I`m a guy by the way) says a lot about spewman`s inability to come up with anything concrete to respond to my posts.

We can get our pension back after living here for twenty five years? Oh yeah. Great. We all know how simple it is to live long term in Japan or plan to live long term here when you look at the various ways the laws and multiple rules of various institutions here are designed to keep us from living here for that long. Spewman might like to learn a few facts about how Japanese people get privileges after living a few years in our home countries that we don`t and won`t get for living here longer.

That`s the reason for my first reply to the poster who talked about getting notices from their city hall in their home country. Laws exist and have existed for thousands of years but the fact that a law is in existence doesn`t make us morally obliged to follow it. If it`s an unjust law (and these come in many varieties) then disobey it if you feel that way. I feel that way about the thousands of dollars in money I have lost through the phantom called the city hall health insurance/pension scheme.

Only you can decide whether to follow a law or not. If you don`t want to pay for the military protest by withholding your taxes in your home country. There will be consequences. If you slip out of Japan without paying the fake charges to city hall you can give the finger to the parasites back there who want you to pay for them and their system but who don`t feel any real obligation to you.

For your information (and god knows you need information) - in my country Japanese people only pay health insurance for their study period or work period. They do not get fake pension payments mixed up with their health insurance, designed to support my country`s population deliberately at their expense. Get your head out of the toilet bowl, grow up and start using some arguments, and exit from the arses of these bureaucrats here who you love defending.

[hakuman]

We can get our pension back after living here for twenty five years? Oh yeah. Great. We all know how simple it is to live long term in Japan or plan to live long term here when you look at the various ways the laws and multiple rules of various institutions here are designed to keep us from living here for that long.

You mean systems like permanent residents visas? The fact is, they give us the opportunity to live here as long as we want (provided we meet visa qualifications and dont get in too much truouble). If you dont like the living conditions, as I said, go the fuck home. We really dont want your kind here. If you think it is harder for foreigners who have immigrated to Japan than it is for many foreingers who immigrate to most other countries, you are kidding yourself mate. I know a J-girl who had drinks thrown at her from moving cars twice in Australia. Ive never heard of that happening to any foreigners in Japan (although it very well might have).

Spewman might like to learn a few facts about how Japanese people get privileges after living a few years in our home countries that we don`t and won`t get for living here longer.


Your point being? As I said, its their country. Too fuckin bad if you dont like it. GO HOME.

Bitching about my post by calling me a bitch (I`m a guy by the way)

You may be a guy, but you're still a bitch!

The funny thing is, you make this point all righteously, you who has referred to me as spewman the last few posts. I dont really give a fuck, but its kinda like the pot calling the kettle black isnt it?

[cstaylor]

I know a J-girl who had drinks thrown at her from moving cars twice in Australia.
:: awaiting the appropriate quote from Charles :: :lol: :wink:

[Blah Pete]

I know a J-girl who had drinks thrown at her from moving cars twice in Australia.
I had that happen in my own country once. Damn rednecks... :evil:

[Greji]

You might as well face up to it. As the old saw says, the only two things required in life are to die and to pay taxes.

All the hedge hopping between Ward Offices and City Offices in the world is not going to help after they finish tweaking the new chip powered gaiji toroku. They will just have to call the new Gaijin Intel Center and locate you no matter under which bridge, or in which cardboard dambo you are sleeping. Big Brother will prevail :lol:

gb

[Reddeville]

Yep, the city hall WILL chase you up and if you have to do your visa renewal by yourself that might stop you getting it renewed - Immigration these days has access to info they didn`t have before. As long as you live in Japan you`ll have to pay.

But again - it`s up to you regardless of the bitchy comments made by spewman, who likes throwing the word `bitch` around (yep, you`d know all about that) and who hasn`t made one single intelligent point back when I made my position clear in my previous posts. You are legally obliged but it`s your choice and if you don`t get your visa renewed or have them come after you have to accep that.

If you leave Japan without paying and decide to never come back - that`s your choice and if your city hall is as incompetent and discriminatory as mine then power to you. Let them send their letters and waste their money. :D

Bare arsed cheek of the city halls to demand payments for the following year when you WON`T be in Japan if you decide to leave openly. Yes, it might be a Japanese custom to extort its foreigner population in this way when they have left the country but that doesn`t make it morally justifiable.

Only to Shintaro Ishihara`s little bitch on this forum who doesn`t realise the same Japanese bureaucrats whose arse his head is up despise him even while he is abasing himself. :roll: :roll:

[Carlito]

Haku or the vomit man or whatever you call yourself, go and spew on somebody else. Like those sneaking city hall officials who will give you less than 300,000 back city pension refund when you leave although you paid double, triple or more to them.

The law is the law but it`s not always ethical and can be unjust. The many ways Japanese officialdom discriminate against foreigners but are always there counting us as `Japanese` when they want us to pay to support their dying system (dying cause of xenophobia) is for me an example of unjust laws.

Foreigners support their system and don`t get their benefits. So again - if you leave Japan without paying ward tax or NHK or that pension system, power to you.

your post is ill-informed, and in my opinion, misguided.

tax is a civil obligation that must be met by all those who benefit from a country's infrastructure and have sufficient financial latitude. whilst private initiative will in most cases take care of improvements to facilitate the go-about of an entire interest group, the sheer scale of some of the needs call for the official support of a government that is not in it to make money (and can therefore absorb "unlimited" risk). the discussion, in my opinion, is not if we should or should not pay tax, it is if it is too high or too low, and how tax and government should gradually diminish over time.

having paid taxes in japan and a host of other european countries during my 5 years in the workforce, i feel like i get a huge bang for my tax bucks over here. i pay roughly 25% of my income and get modern infrastructure, polite service and efficient bureaucracy (how's that for an oxymoron). in germany, someone in my tax bracket has to pay 50% income tax and believe me - it isn't worth it and it isn't just, and i set-up shop in luxembourg to avoid it. in spain, i am asked to pay 40% - and i have to beg civil servants to do their job. japan's taxes are not onerous compared to some other places in the world. there is always better, but believe me, in most instances there is much, much worse.

additionally, i happened to have cashed out on my pension after working 3 years in japan making a slightly better than average income. i got back in the region of JPY 800K which i instantly proceeded to spend in the red light district in frankfurt, drinking crystal and squeezing breasts to the health of mr. koizumi. clearly they will not pay out the whole amount that i gave them - like no self-respecting financial institution would do, either. pension and other such financial agreements that promise delivery of moneys in the future depend on the fact that you are bound by contract as to when you can retire your investment, and when you start receiving benefits. this is 'cos they use your cash to invest, so that they can make mony to deliver on their promise bro. if you fuck with'em, they fuck with you - and besides you pay tax on lump sums.

NHK is ridiculous, though. should just be included in my normal tax bill.

[Carlito]

Lincoln paid for the civil war simply by creating money at 0% interest. There is a conspiracy that he was killed because the big bankers feared that he would shut them down and have the goverment print money at 0.1% interest (to pay for admin). Kennedy was also thinking about this system too. So he was also killed off. In Australia, one of our former prime ministers simply vanished (Harold Holt) after also mentioning such a system.

hell, that is sheer genius. let's go back to barter. that way we will eliminate poverty forever.

here's the plan - why don't we print cash, pay-off all the third-world debt with it, and then get rid of money altogether afterwards. the logic surely is fool-proof - if there is no money, there is no debt.

then, let's chase the jewish council of bankers that have secretly run the world for the past 15 centuries and beat them to a pulp. those bastards killed MLK, JFK and a bunch of other good three letter men.

going to have to buy a big shopping bag though - can you imagine, today i go shopping for some tofu & red wine with one of the chickens that i raise in my balcony chicken-farm in ebisu. tomorrow, i trade my girlfriend for a cuba-libre at the roppongi hills cafe (didn't have any chicken's handy, and she ain't that hot).

[Reddeville]

Carlito - don`t agree with you although I accept a general principle you`re putting forward.

I understand where you`re coming from and I know that you`re putting forward an argument. You read my posts and what they had to say in their entirey which is a welcome change from posters spewing words like `bitch` (how`s it up Ishihara`s arse spewman?) to supposedly `make their case`. :lol: :lol: :lol:

Our experiences are different because you got a pension refund which you don`t have any reason to be unhappy about. Obviously you weren`t made to join the pension scheme by your city hall. I don`t think you`d be so blase about this if you had experienced it.

My city hall wouldn`t let me have the health insurance through them without joining the pension scheme as well. That was some years back when the practice was not usual. I know plenty of other foreigners who`ve been around for as long as me and their city halls didn`t make them join the pension when they went to join the health insurance scheme.

The result is - you and other people who weren`t suckered into this (or forced in my case) get a good pension payout. For contributing 9 years plus (oh I forgot - if I wait just 16 years more in a country trying to make it harder for its foreign residents by labelling them `criminals` frequently in the media, and making it very hard to get citizenship) I can get it back.

But if I leave at the end of next year (10 years) I can only get 3 years` payments. At the most 240,000 yen. There`s a difference, isn`t there carlito? I aint surprised you are satisfied with the system because you got a fair sum from it. Tell me it`s fair to pay what I have and just get the joke sum of 240,000 yen.

Add the fact that my city hall is notoriously incompetent and employs people who run their mouths with the word `gaijin` all the time and treat tax paying professionals like me with contempt when I`ve done my best to fit in and pay all my dues on time etc, I don`t give a flying fuck if anybody leaves Japan without paying their city hall dues.

Note I wrote city hall - did I ever say I hadn`t paid all my national income tax or wanted to leave without paying that. Nope. My problem is very clearly focused on city hall.

[Buraku]

make excuses, move around, but don't pay up

you'll be a fool to let them do you up the ass for Ward Tax plus I imagine the invoice will be a bit too high to pay off

these assholes can bankrupt you if you let them

[Carlito]

Reddeville - our experiences with the system seem to be very different indeed. my pension deal was satisfactory, and i have never felt unjustly taxed here in japan. length of period, timing and possibly location are the key factors i suppose. for me the 3 years contribution evened out with the payout (penalties and further taxation discounted). even the naivety of the gaijin label has stopped rubbing me the wrong way - at the end of the day, it is me who gets the last laugh when i collect my paycheck, for getting the locals to get the job done (i extrapolate this to non-work related locals as well).

the one thing that i could never understand and take issue with from a social benefits perspective is that students and unemployed people have to make contributions to the system. i studied in japan and defaulted on my payments for two years worth. and while i was defaulting, i moved twice, and eventually took to simply ignoring the notices. they kept coming, i kept ignoring, in the end i never paid. i used to laugh when they told me they'd freeze my bank account and collect from there - it never happened and even if it did, it would have been of little consequence as the balance was always very close to zero.

[hakuman]

You read my posts and what they had to say in their entirey which is a welcome change from posters spewing words like `bitch` (how`s it up Ishihara`s arse spewman?) to supposedly `make their case`.

I wasnt making my case with it, I was just pointing out the obvious. You are a bitch! haha.

My case is pretty much what Carlito said, although he said it much nicer than I would have. But basically its this. Its not your country, so either become a citizen, or pay up, or shut up. Cause right now, you just come off as a bitch!

Signed, Spewman.

[Big Booger]

My tax just came on Friday. Oh how I love to pay taxes... I think you can complain, you can get angry, you can insult, you can do whatever you want, even evade them, but eventually it'll come back to haunt you and you more than likely will have to pay at some point... the longer you put it off the more it will cost... so it may just be good to pay up and shut up. :D

[fatslug]

hope al qaida aims for the tax department here :flame: