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ultragaijin
05-10-2002, 06:06 PM
(more diarrhea of the keyboard, I'm afraid)

Depending on how long you're over there, you'll go through up and down phases.

In the beginning it's great to work in Japan, but at some point, you begin to think longer term. You may get the feeling you're just working in a job that really doesn't use your skills and won't boost your career as much as a job back home could, simply for the novelty of being able to live in Japan. Everyone tries to find the right balance for themselves.

Living in Japan is great and you can't get better language training anywhere else, but there are tradeoffs. A lot of things you will be doing in your job may seem to be backwards or counter-intuitive and you'll have to unlearn them if and when you come back to the US to work, but that's just the way a lot of companies work in Japan (even foreign companies).

Another thing you'll run into, if for example you're a network engineer, is the choice to be the bi-lingual network engineer, who specializes in working in both languages and facilitating communication between the client and the real networking specialists OR to be the real networking specialist, who just happens to speak Japanese. There is a trap that you can fall into where language abilities begin to overshadow your real career goals, and may limit opportunities to broaden your other skills. Working in the US, most people don't even have to deal with this issue - you just try to be the best network engineer. This is another area where you need to find a personal balance.

Sometimes people leave Japan at this point. Sometimes a new company or a new type of work in Japan can re-invigorate and give you better job satisfaction. Other times, you'll decide a less stimulating job is offset by all the fun you're having in Japan.

This is probably the biggest issue you will face working in Japan (eventually). Look at it this way, once you get over all the languange and cultural hurdles to adjust to working and living in Japan, and your Japanese becomes perfect, you realize you have just become Joe Schmoe salaryman. Congratualtions, you are now a F*cked Gaijin. Then you realize you could have become Joe Schmoe white-collar in the US without going through all the hurdles. This is a major over-simplification, but I hope it helps get across what I'm trying to say.

I guess my positive advice to deal with this is: always make sure you are doing what you really want to job/career-wise, don't just settle for anything so you can work in Japan. And also, when you go in for interviews - YOU should be interviewing the company too, to make sure it's the kind of place you want to work and a place where you have room to grow and broaden your skills. Be able to say no to offers from companies that don't impress you.

A side note: not to belittle anyone, but everything I've said above is why I wouldn't want to teach English. Honestly, you'd never think of doing that kind of thing in the US. It's not a career and you're not going gain valuable job experience just by speaking English. You'll have a much richer experience if you work in your chosen field in Japan, rather than teach English.

(Yet another JapanNewbie (http://www.japannewbie.com/pcgi-bin/ib3/ikonboard.cgi) post.)

kamome
05-12-2002, 10:30 PM
In the beginning it's great to work in Japan, but at some point, you begin to think longer term. You may get the feeling you're just working in a job that really doesn't use your skills and won't boost your career as much as a job back home could, simply for the novelty of being able to live in Japan. Everyone tries to find the right balance for themselves.

Dude, have you been reading my mind???

Sometimes people leave Japan at this point. Sometimes a new company or a new type of work in Japan can re-invigorate and give you better job satisfaction. Other times, you'll decide a less stimulating job is offset by all the fun you're having in Japan.

This is probably the biggest issue you will face working in Japan (eventually). Look at it this way, once you get over all the languange and cultural hurdles to adjust to working and living in Japan, and your Japanese becomes perfect, you realize you have just become Joe Schmoe salaryman.

Holy shit, that's what has happened to me. I realized I became Joe Schmoe salaryman when two things happened: 1) when several Japanese co-workers and I were hanging out in the smoking room (as many companies here have, so that their nicotine habit doesn't destroy the rest of the office), and they all conceded to me at once that they were salarymen, and that since they were my co-workers, I must be a salaryman too, and 2) when I was riding the subway home from work wearing my suit and raincoat and carrying my briefcase and umbrella, and a Japanese friend of mine coincidentally ran into me on the train--she said she almost couldn't discern me from the other salarymen on the train, as if I blended in perfectly.

Oh shit, that's a FUCKED GAIJIN MOMENT! Ahhhhhhhhh....... 8O

ultragaijin
05-13-2002, 02:28 AM
I was riding the subway home from work wearing my suit and raincoat and carrying my briefcase and umbrella, and a Japanese friend of mine coincidentally ran into me on the train--she said she almost couldn't discern me from the other salarymen on the train, as if I blended in perfectly.

ROFL. You have been assimilated.

Harvey
05-13-2002, 04:02 AM
I was riding the subway home from work wearing my suit and raincoat and carrying my briefcase and umbrella, and a Japanese friend of mine coincidentally ran into me on the train--she said she almost couldn't discern me from the other salarymen on the train, as if I blended in perfectly.

That would make a *great* picture for this site. It could be like, the logo or something.

Stage it again and have a picture taken!

ultragaijin
05-13-2002, 05:19 AM
Good idea. I should also probably throw together an "Are You A F*cked Gaijin?" quiz one of these days.

kamome
05-13-2002, 10:52 PM
Stage it again and have a picture taken!

Who says it needs to be staged? It happens every day of my f-ing life!

Anonymous
05-17-2002, 03:47 AM
Stage it again and have a picture taken!

Who says it needs to be staged? It happens every day of my f-ing life!

Yeah, if you look closely you can spot kamome in this shot:

http://www.trekjapan.com/gallery/Kanto/Chiba/photo134.htm

ultragaijin
05-17-2002, 05:11 AM
Yeah, I see him! He's the one in the dark navy suit, with dark hair on the stairs.

The funny thing about that shot is how everyone is ignoring the up/down signs, in typical Tokyo fashion. I guess that's their daily dose of rebellion.

kamome
05-17-2002, 06:36 PM
Yeah, I see him! He's the one in the dark navy suit, with dark hair on the stairs.

Dude, another case of one FG member posting a pic of another FG member. I'm the third guy from the right with the gray suit on. :lol:

Harvey
05-18-2002, 12:46 AM
Holy crap! I'm in the picture too! I'm the guy in the middle with his head down!

Man! This is guuzen city!

kamome
05-18-2002, 01:09 AM
Well, guys, I have yet again been called a "salaryman" in a conversation that was completely independent of my previous story (posted higher up in the thread). Went out to dinner tonight with a Japanese-American colleague from the US who is visiting for a few days. I had to run directly from work to meet her--which meant of course, that I was wearing a suit and carrying a briefcase. The minute she spotted me at the train station, she said "Wow, you totally look like a salaryman."

The first thing that popped into my mind was FG.com, and especially the linked picture posted by mdchachi above. Just had to get this off my chest...

Harvey
05-18-2002, 04:08 AM
I so want to see a picture of you in your salary man attire, hook it up man!

ultragaijin
05-18-2002, 02:08 PM
Well, I think the rest of us want to see a pic of your "colleague". Hook us up, man. It's your F*cked Gaijin duty!

cstaylor
05-18-2002, 03:26 PM
Even though I run the IT department at the small company I work for, I still come to work in "California Casual": Dockers, sneakers, sweatshirt.

When I take the train to Yokohama station (gotta make a run to Bic P-Kan), I sometimes get asked by Japanese if I'm an english teacher.

So which is worse? Salaryman or English teacher? :wink:

ultragaijin
05-19-2002, 05:47 AM
So which is worse? Salaryman or English teacher?

I guess it depends on which bars you go to.

kamome
05-20-2002, 12:58 PM
I so want to see a picture of you in your salary man attire, hook it up man!

Dudes, don't get me wrong, but unlike Rob *****, I don't think I'm ready to reveal my mug to all of you jagoffs :lol: (maybe I would with the help of Ultra's super-encrypted mosaic).

Well, I think the rest of us want to see a pic of your "colleague".

She really was just a colleague, and she has already returned to the States. Sorry to disappoint you guys.

cstaylor wrote:
So which is worse? Salaryman or English teacher?


I guess it depends on which bars you go to.

Despite the lameness of being labeled a salaryman, I'd rather be that than an English teacher. Gaijin salarymen are known for making the cash, and that tends to attract a high caliber of women. No offense intended, though, because I have also done the English teacher thing, and I really liked it.