Kanchou wrote:I heard something on the news that suggested that his Japanese wasn't all that great, and there has been no mention of him being a naturalized J-dude.

Well I guess none of us knows specifically, however according to CNN:

Wearing a Nashville School of Law T-shirt, Christopher Savoie walked into a second-floor police interrogation room. In one corner, a stopwatch was running to hold him to the 15 minutes allotted for the interview.
A Tennessee court awarded Christopher Savoie custody of his son, Isaac, and daughter, Rebecca.
"I'm so scared," he said. Savoie chose his words carefully, lest police Officer Toshihiro Tanaka cut short the rare interview Savoie was granted with CNN on Thursday. There were so many rules: No recording devices. No tough questions. Speak only in Japanese.

And he did get an MD and PhD from Kyushu Daigaku so he must speak "some" Japanese. According to his online profile he spent from 1992 to 1999 going to school there.

And on his broadcast interview from last week he stated on no less than three occasions that he is a Japanese citizen.

Mulboyne wrote:The story in the Asahi (Japanese) portrays Savoie as having presented Noriko with divorce papers the day after she arrived in the US. If so, it doesn't make him look good. Indeed his wife looks "more sinned against than sinning" in such a portrayal.

Asahi and Yomiuri are fairly famous for this in their Japanese editions and then not broaching the subject in the English version. The poor misled and wronged J-spouse of international marriages. I don't know if it is just a ploy to sell copy or the ever-present short dick complex. The arrangement for obtaining and serving divorce papers in one day is a bit over, but could have been arranged.

There's just too many unknowns here to make a good call. He would have been much better off getting his divorce in Japan in terms of settlement, but the kids issue would be better off done in the states. The fact that he got custody leaves other questions. Did he have some heavy book on her that he could present? i.e. un-licensed fucking the neighbor and/or all comers? The US court system still tends to favor mothers when awarding custody of younger children. A husband has to present a pretty bad track record on the wife to over-ride this legal prejudice, but it is sometimes done.

As I mentioned before, if he did naturalize, did he start his own family register and if he did, did he register his wife and marriage?

There's just to many "ifs", but it still leaves what I think is the main question, would a J-husband be locked up for 23 days and investigated if he were involved in a similar incident....

Greji wrote:There's just to many "ifs", but it still leaves what I think is the main question, would a J-husband be locked up for 23 days and investigated if he were involved in a similar incident....

Damn right.

Mulboyne wrote:Here's an AP piece with some of Noriko's version of the story via "a friend":

Friend: Japanese woman who took kids felt trapped

Ahah, the helpful Japanese friend surfaces. She was experienced and knew the ground. The plot thickens.

Interesting. James, who runs the Japan Probe sitehas come out with the following statement:

...I do think this particular case is a bad example to put forward as the focus of the child abduction issue.

I believe so because:

1) The children in this case only moved to the United States last year, after having grown up in Japan.

2) Both parents are Japanese citizens.

3) At the time Christopher convinced Noriko and the children to move to America, he was apparently already intending to divorce his wife. (At the very least, their marriage appears to have been in serious trouble.)

Child custody disputes are never simple, but picking this case as the most newsworthy example of a Japanese child abduction was a bad idea.

They could have picked one of the many other child abduction cases that involved:

1) Children who had actually spent most of their lives living in the United States.

2) Parents who both lived in the United States for years before any divorce took place

3) A foreign parent (not a foreign parent that is also a Japanese citizen and lists a permanent address in Tokyo)

I think one major factor in this case is that there is no law again parental child abduction here so why would he be arrested then? On what charges? This raises a lot questions, since he is supposed to hold Japanese citizenship there should be no legal recourse for his actions according to law. That is some real hypocrisy imo, dare I say even racism. With all that said with these types of situations its always the children that are the real victims. I feel sorry for them.

Uthark_Runa wrote:I think one major factor in this case is that there is no law again parental child abduction here so why would he be arrested then? On what charges? This raises a lot questions, since he is supposed to hold Japanese citizenship there should be no legal recourse for his actions according to law. That is some real hypocrisy imo, dare I say even racism. With all that said with these types of situations its always the children that are the real victims. I feel sorry for them.

Good question. Why would the police arrest a father for taking his children into a US consulate?
People are suggesting he was a schemer but that's not an excuse for the consulate's or J police's actions.

Mulboyne wrote:Interesting. James, who runs the Japan Probe sitehas come out with the following statement:

...I do think this particular case is a bad example to put forward as the focus of the child abduction issue.

I believe so because:

1) The children in this case only moved to the United States last year, after having grown up in Japan.

2) Both parents are Japanese citizens.

3) At the time Christopher convinced Noriko and the children to move to America, he was apparently already intending to divorce his wife. (At the very least, their marriage appears to have been in serious trouble.)

As details emerge, my sympathy for him is waning.. The kids should divorce both parents..

GJ

GuyJean wrote:As details emerge, my sympathy for him is waning.. The kids should divorce both parents..

GJ

If indeed this story is true, then I agree, the kids need to call it a day and leave both of them. Are there any other articles or statements, documents that can be factually backed up?

I join the chorus.
Though I have sympathy to some extent for both dad and mum now, too, as more news becomes available, it's nowhere near how much I feel for their kids. Thank God they're still so young and maybe this won't remain in their memory for too long. Kids are pretty resilient, even if they have to go through something as horrible as this. I hope things work out for them, wherever they are.

Interesting aside was how the Asahi referred to dad as an American. Correct or typical Japanese media racism, playing up the foreign demon angle?

+1

These parents (both of them) seem more interested in taking shots at each other and using the kids as ammunition.

Neither of them can claim they are the wounded party as they are both as bad as each other.

Sadly, it is the kids who are the real victims here.

It does seem a bit fucked that he was arrested after "abducting" his children, even though he's a Japanese citizen so the same rules should apply to him, that apply to Noriko. From there it should just be an issue of custody in Japanese divorce court. Not an abduction issue.

She took his money, and the kids. She's every bit as much a schemer as he. And, we still have no idea what precipitated the desire for them to divorce...

Mike Oxlong wrote:And, we still have no idea what precipitated the desire for them to divorce...

I'd guess marriage in itself does that....
...certainly worked that way for me...
...each time!!!!

Mulboyne wrote:Interesting. James, who runs the Japan Probe site has come out with the following statement:
...

1) The children in this case only moved to the United States last year, after having grown up in Japan.

For those following the parallel discussion about the Hague Treaty, this is an important point. If the kids have only been in the U.S. for a year, I think there is a real chance the U.S. would not even be considered their "habitual residence", and hence Hague would not apply to this case, even if Japan signed it.

Yeah, real complicated case.

I'm still wondering about this Noriko nutjob. So, reports say she wanted a divorce before they moved to the US, but hubby refused. Why then, didn't she march on down to city hall and start paperwork on a contested divorce? She could have done that, and then he wouldn't have been able to move to the US with the kids in the first place. Could it be she was hoping to win a million bucks in the American-style divorce lotto, and then transfer the cash back to Japan before abducting her kids and getting the hell outta Dodge...? Her story doesn't add up any better than his.

This whole thing really doesn't make any sense at all. He obviously had the money to afford excellent legal representation, and he's a Japanese citizen. He would have been better off to stay in Japan and take his chances with a Japanese divorce court. Now he's out $700k and lost his kids too. In Japan he might have lost the kids but he sure as hell wouldn't have lost $700k!!

Mike Oxlong wrote:Yeah, real complicated case.

I'm still wondering about this Noriko nutjob. So, reports say she wanted a divorce before they moved to the US, but hubby refused. Why then, didn't she march on down to city hall and start paperwork on a contested divorce? She could have done that, and then he wouldn't have been able to move to the US with the kids in the first place. Could it be she was hoping to win a million bucks in the American-style divorce lotto, and then transfer the cash back to Japan before abducting her kids and getting the hell outta Dodge...? Her story doesn't add up any better than his.

Or she could have just decided to give the marriage another shot for the sake of the kids. People do do that, you know?

BTW, I think a lot of you are making too much of his Japanese citizenship. Yeah, he's better off than your average FG if he goes to court in Japan, but he's still an FG and would have a hard time beating a local.

omae mona wrote:For those following the parallel discussion about the Hague Treaty, this is an important point. If the kids have only been in the U.S. for a year, I think there is a real chance the U.S. would not even be considered their "habitual residence", and hence Hague would not apply to this case, even if Japan signed it.

I think the fact that one parent has violated a custody agreement, which has generated an arrest warrant, means it would apply. As I understand it, the "habitual residence" test is to help decide whether a parent has "abducted" the children in the absence of any court ruling, not to determine whether a ruling was fair. One purpose of Hague is to enforce domestic custody decisions internationally.

It is interesting, reading the court transcripts, that discussion of the Hague convention came up repeatedly so it looks like all sides knew exactly what was at stake. The transcripts also reveal that Noriko testified that she moved to the US in the full knowledge of her husband's mistress and with no expectation of reconciliation. We can only speculate as to why she did that (or why she testified to that). If true, then the idea that she was "tricked" into relocating carries no merit although she might be able to claim that she felt coerced into making the move.

As others have said, both parents come out pretty poorly in this regardless of where the fault lies for the breakdown of their marriage. All of his manoeuvring was designed to guarantee his access to his children on the assumption that his ex-wife and Japanese arbitration would shaft him. As an incentive for his wife to comply, it sounds like he held out the promise of a substantial financial package.

For her part, she went along with the arrangement in the knowledge that, if she had the opportunity to take the children to Japan, she could renege on any agreement by refusing to return them to American soil. She was willing to tell an American judge whatever he wanted to hear to ensure she would have the chance to do so. Whether that was always her intention, or whether she made her decision later, who can tell.

Goodness knows how long their relationship was in disarray in Japan but you can only hope that the two children haven't been growing up in a full-scale battle zone over the last few years. More publicity might serve diplomatic, legal and political interests but it certainly doesn't serve their interests. There can't be a kid in their schools who doesn't know that their parents are fighting and their dad is in jail. You can only hope that the teachers and other parents will make sure they get sympathy and support rather than harassment.

Mulboyne wrote:I think the fact that one parent has violated a custody agreement, which has generated an arrest warrant, means it would apply. As I understand it, the "habitual residence" test is to help decide whether a parent has "abducted" the children in the absence of any court ruling, not to determine whether a ruling was fair. One purpose of Hague is to enforce domestic custody decisions internationally.

It is interesting, reading the court transcripts, that discussion of the Hague convention came up repeatedly so it looks like all sides knew exactly what was at stake. The transcripts also reveal that Noriko testified that she moved to the US in the full knowledge of her husband's mistress and with no expectation of reconciliation. We can only speculate as to why she did that (or why she testified to that). If that's true, then the idea that she was "tricked" into relocating carries no merit although she might be able to claim that she felt coerced into making the move.

As others have said, both parents come out pretty poorly in this regardless of where the fault lies for the breakdown of their marriage. All of his manoeuvring was designed to guarantee his access to his children on the assumption that his ex-wife and Japanese arbitration would shaft him. As an incentive for his wife to comply, it sounds like he held out the promise of a substantial financial package.

For her part, she went along with the arrangement in the knowledge that, if she had the opportunity to take the children to Japan, she could renege on any agreement by refusing to return them to American soil. She was willing to tell an American judge whatever he wanted to hear to ensure she would have the chance to do so. Whether that was always her intention, or whether she made her decision later, who can tell.

Goodness knows how long their relationship was in disarray in Japan but you can only hope that the two children haven't been growing up in a full-scale battle zone over the last few years. More publicity might serve diplomatic, legal and political interests but it certainly doesn't serve their interests. There can't be a kid in their schools who doesn't know that their parents are fighting and their dad is in jail. You can only hope that the teachers and other parents will make sure they get sympathy and support rather than harassment.

As always Mulboyne, excellent post; however, I think you got a little carried away with that last sentence. This being Japan, the MO is to kick hard and often at any and all who you see at a disadvantage. Especially if the other person happens to be a kid and you happen to be a parent of another kid or a teacher.

Greji wrote:Ahah, the helpful Japanese friend surfaces. She was experienced and knew the ground. The plot thickens.

yep. and who said she'd be protrayed as the poor innocent victim? that's right...ME!

Mulboyne wrote:I think the fact that one parent has violated a custody agreement, which has generated an arrest warrant, means it would apply.

That is a good point and seems quite logical. I seem to remember the habitual residence criterion was not necessarily so clear cut, but I can't find the source material right now.

Behan wrote:The police in Japan are sadistic. Why does this country put up with this, even against its own citizens?

Because they have never experienced anything else.

does anyone else think we're missing a major chunk of information here? yes, it's all really fucked up what's going on, but the 'are they really married or aren't they?', ' the quickie trip to america/divorce/remarriage', is he a j-cit or not, etc just seems all a bit weird.

Hmmmm!
Put-up-job maybe ?
JMHO