[floatr][/floatr]Yomiuri: Hoshino blasts rules change
Japan Olympic baseball manager Senichi Hoshino complained Saturday about new changes to the extra-inning rules for the Beijing Olympics. In a drastic shift for the tradition-bound game, from the 11th inning on, each team's at-bat will begin with a runner on first and second base. "I want to strongly protest this," Hoshino said. "We're not playing exhibitions. We will be fighting all out to be the best in the world. "I cannot be satisfied with the international federation making this change without consultation." The International Baseball Federation announced the new rules in a statement on its Web site. "The upcoming Beijing Olympic competition may be our last unless we are successful in adding the sport back to the Olympic program for the 2016 Games," IBAF president Harvey Schiller said in the statement. "We must demonstrate to the international Olympic Committee not only does our sport belongs alongside the other great sports of the world, but our sport is manageable from a television and operational standpoint." The statement went on to say that the potential delays of extra-inning games "make it difficult in the context of the Olympic program...more...

I agree 100%. That rule is gay as shit.

Say what!? Damn - I agree as well. This rule is obviously for shortening the game and not really playing out real ball. Though I'd contest where he gets the privs of calling it 'our sport' . As far as I know and recall -- baseball has been played a long time in the ol USA before it was adopted by J-Pan.

I remember reading somewhere that this is the last Olympics that will be having the baseball competition, so, maybe the IOC's thinking is, "Like, whatever...."

Iraira wrote:... maybe the IOC's thinking is, "Like, whatever...."

I don't think the IOC had anything to do with it. It looks like the International Baseball Federation introduced it unilaterally. The rules will apply to the Baseball World Cup, which they also administer, but probably not the World Baseball Classic unless Major League Baseball agree.

DrP wrote:Say what!? Damn - I agree as well. This rule is obviously for shortening the game and not really playing out real ball. Though I'd contest where he gets the privs of calling it 'our sport' . As far as I know and recall -- baseball has been played a long time in the ol USA before it was adopted by J-Pan.

They think Nabisco and 7-Eleven, AM/PM and Skippy(for Christ's sake) are all Japanese originals too.

DrP wrote:Say what!? Damn - I agree as well. This rule is obviously for shortening the game and not really playing out real ball. Though I'd contest where he gets the privs of calling it 'our sport' . As far as I know and recall -- baseball has been played a long time in the ol USA before it was adopted by J-Pan.

I think when he says 'our' he means baseball players and fans in general not Japan.

AssKissinger wrote:I think when he says 'our' he means baseball players and fans in general not Japan.

That's what it will probably turn out to be translated as when, or if they take any flak. But, Hoshino has at times on different programs been very vocal about the superiority of Japanese baseball. He was a real bitch on TV during the WBC tourney when Japan won!

It's not just two baserunners...

To begin the 11th inning, representatives from each team will meet at home plate and will indicate (at the same time) to the home plate umpire where the team wishes to begin the batting order. That is, the teams have the option of beginning the 11th inning anywhere in the existing batting order that was in effect when the 10th inning ended. Note that this is not a new lineup (just potentially a different order), and it may very well be the same lineup that ended the 10th inning. The rationale for doing so is to ensure that both teams have an equal chance at having what they consider to be their best hitters and base runners in a position to score in the 11th inning.

For example, if the team decides to have the #1 hitter in the lineup hit first, then the #8 hitter will be placed at 2B and the #9 hitter will be placed at 1B. Furthermore, if the team decides to have the #3 hitter in the lineup hit first, then the #1 hitter would be at 2B and the #2 hitter would be at 1B.

It sounds like the Onion wrote this.

Captain Japan wrote:It's not just two baserunners...



It sounds like the Onion wrote this.

Didn't they have something like this before in International Rules? I think I recall seeing this in Olympic softball also.

Japan also has had this before in the jitsugyoudan baseball. I don't know if they still use it or not, in seasonal play, but they use it in yousen rounds for tournaments.

So they really shouldn't act like it's a brand new poke in the eye with a sharp stick.....

This is the most ridiculous rule I've ever heard of. What imbecile could come up with this sort of crap?
The whole focus of baseball is the challenge to get players on base. Why "give" it to them? It's preposterous!
Fucking bureaucrats wreck all sports.

I think international softball begins extra innings with players on base. Some youth baseball tournaments in Japan do this as well. With the kids tournaments they need to get the games over with or there could be a big jam up of games to play.

But anything that pisses off Hoshino is great!:p

Greji wrote:That's what it will probably turn out to be translated as when, or if they take any flak. But, Hoshino has at times on different programs been very vocal about the superiority of Japanese baseball. He was a real bitch on TV during the WBC tourney when Japan won!

I do think any MLB team would get creamed in a season of NPB.

mmm...It definitely puts a lot of pressure on the pitcher and gives a big advantage to teams that play "small ball," which, you would think would be an advantage for Japan.

Of course, the "you get to pick the order thing" is jacked up. Any smart team would put their fastest runners on 1st and 2nd followed by their hitters. It could get pretty wild.

While I don't agree with it, it'll definitely make the end of extra inning games interesting.

AssKissinger wrote:I do think any MLB team would get creamed in a season of NPB.

Where did this come from? The US doesn't send any of the front line MLB players to the Olympics and Wagakuni sends all of theirs and they still haven't won a gold medal.

The only tournament they have won is the intial WBC which although they played well, they had a lot of luck. The US still didn't send a frontline team. This year's team is all minor leaguers.

Based on these results and all the Nichibei series, I don't see your comparison unless you're trying to make Take feel good!

The IBAF claim that the rule is necessary to guarantee that games will come to a result within a specified time otherwise tournament organizers and broadcasters will be unable to set their schedules. Football tournaments face the same issue and the result is the much unloved penalty shoot-out. Unloved in England, that is, since, when we do qualify for a major tournament, the usual exit route is after losing on penalties. There have been other methods trialled: the "golden goal" system meant that the first team to score in extra time won. The "silver goal" system meant that the team ahead after the first period of extra time won. Other people argue that teams should play with fewer and fewer on the pitch until there's a goal. Or that, instead of a penalty, a player should dribble the ball up from the halfway line. They are all pretty unsatisfactory and the penalty shoot-out is generally thought to be the best of a bad bunch.

Assuming that the IBAF is right about tournament scheduling - which is a big assumption - the question then is what method do you decide to use to help get a result in baseball? Taking it as a given that any method is going to be hated by a baseball purist.

Greji wrote:Where did this come from? The US doesn't send any of the front line MLB players to the Olympics and Wagakuni sends all of theirs and they still haven't won a gold medal.

The only tournament they have won is the intial WBC which although they played well, they had a lot of luck. The US still didn't send a frontline team. This year's team is all minor leaguers.

Based on these results and all the Nichibei series, I don't see your comparison unless you're trying to make Take feel good!

We had a bunch of MLB hotshots at the WBC. We use superstars from the NBA for the Dream Team, obviously. There's one way to tell who's best when it comes to sports and that's to play the games. We played, we lost, they're better. End of story. Marketing and paychecks don't make you a better athlete. Around the world from Croatia to China there are basketball leagues on par with or superior to the NBA. Even if we have the funds to recruit many top tier foreign players nothing changes. Real Madrid recruited the most famous high-profile superstars in the world. Still, they didn't just dominate everyone they played. Just the same as Europe always dismisses American soccer. No player in the world could just totally sweep up in MLS. I mean, it's like this: If you got a country where kids play certain sports from the get go all the flash in the world that another country let's loose doesn't take that from them.

AssKissinger wrote:We had a bunch of MLB hotshots at the WBC. We use superstars from the NBA for the Dream Team, obviously. There's one way to tell who's best when it comes to sports and that's to play the games. We played, we lost, they're better. End of story. Marketing and paychecks don't make you a better athlete. Around the world from Croatia to China there are basketball leagues on par with or superior to the NBA. Even if we have the funds to recruit many top tier foreign players nothing changes. Real Madrid recruited the most famous high-profile superstars in the world. Still, they didn't just dominate everyone they played. Just the same as Europe always dismisses American soccer. No player in the world could just totally sweep up in MLS. I mean, it's like this: If you got a country where kids play certain sports from the get go all the flash in the world that another country let's loose doesn't take that from them.

I don't disagree with you on that one iota AK. I don't think NPB is at the level a lot of people try to place it. Sure they have some great players, but you only have to see a few games to see the rest of the level is not that high. Plus for the most part it is managed and operated in manner that will not allow it to improve very rapidly.

That's all I was saying. Ichiro alone speaks for the talent that is around, but then look at Johjima and a lot of the recent J-star signings. Some of them are even struggling even at 3A. On the whole, I think the're quite a piece back from MLB level.

That's all I was saying. Ichiro alone speaks for the talent that is around, but then look at Johjima and a lot of the recent J-star signings. Some of them are even struggling even at 3A. On the whole, I think the're quite a piece back from MLB level

I still say that even though those guys may not rise up to the bigs, if they play a game like The Mets vs The Carp or whatever The Carp is just as likely to come up victorious. That's what I believe. I don't know what it is. But whatever it takes is to get to the point where you make the most money it's not always the same thing that let's you win games. That's what has been proven by the WBC and the limitations of the Dream Team.

AssKissinger wrote:I still say that even though those guys may not rise up to the bigs, if they play a game like The Mets vs The Carp or whatever The Carp is just as likely to come up victorious. That's what I believe. I don't know what it is. But whatever it takes is to get to the point where you make the most money it's not always the same thing that let's you win games. That's what has been proven by the WBC and the limitations of the Dream Team.

It's all about the fundamentals.... You could have some freak of nature with natural skills, who is just in the pros based on POTENTIAL, but didn't have fundamentals. The Japanese and other countries tend to focus on this part of the game (like FIBA) where fundamentals are the key vs. who can pull off a 360 reverse windmill dunk. This is the reason why the US hasn't been too successful as of late in the Worlds.

Back in HS, we had to play a Japanese football team twice a year and we got our asses handed to us each time. Although the fuckers were not big, they executed well and could hit like a motherfucker. It's not a good feeling getting laid out by a 5 5" 115lb linebacker.

Just my .02.

There is a big difference between Japan and the US in the amount school teams practice. At least when I was young many decades ago.
For high school soccer we had rules about when we could start practicing and when the league and state tournament were over that was it for the year. It was just an Autumn sport.
But from what I have seen of sports here, they practice all year round and as a result the level is a lot higher. Kids who were better back home practiced a lot on their own or joined second or third teams.
In fact, amateur sports don't really seem to have 'seasons'. All the youth sports I have seen here practice all year round.
There don't seem to be casual levels of play like 'house' hockey or 'little league' baseball. All of the sports seem to be of the 'travel team' type.
At levels like 'house' or 'little league' they get assigned to teams through the leagues but here the sports teams exist first and foremost.
It's kind of too bad that some youth sports aren't played more casually here. Wanting your kid to have fun and get exercise is one thing but when teams have elementary school kids practice up to nine hours a day is another thing altogether.
But TIJ and this is my egocentric baggage.

You know, since both teams are going to be given the same advantage... ok I'm no mathematician but... wouldn't that be more likely to just create higher scoring games not shorter ones?

AssKissinger wrote:You know, since both teams are going to be given the same advantage... ok I'm no mathematician but... wouldn't that be more likely to just create higher scoring games not shorter ones?

What would more likely drag out a game is a series of scoreless innings. The new rule makes it easier for both sides to score but teams rarely score evenly in succession so one team ought to come out on top quickly in extra innings play.

Mulboyne wrote:What would more likely drag out a game is a series of scoreless innings. The new rule makes it easier for both sides to score but teams rarely score evenly in succession so one team ought to come out on top quickly in extra innings play.

If that's the case, why don't they just award both teams one point each, when there's a 0-0 inning? Or for that matter, why not just start the game with a score of 2-2? Or perhaps there are other strategies, like awarding 1 point when a runner gets to 3rd base. I don't know what they're trying to do, but it isn't baseball.

They should just see who can throw the ball farther.

AssKissinger wrote:I still say that even though those guys may not rise up to the bigs, if they play a game like The Mets vs The Carp or whatever The Carp is just as likely to come up victorious. That's what I believe. I don't know what it is. But whatever it takes is to get to the point where you make the most money it's not always the same thing that let's you win games. That's what has been proven by the WBC and the limitations of the Dream Team.

Keep in mind AK that in the WBC, the best players on every nation's team were major league players. The US team was not synonomous with an All Star MLB team. On the other hand, the Japan team was the NPB All Stars plus a few MLB players. (And the same goes for international basketball and the NBA and international hockey and the NHL, in general, not with respect to Japan).

And winning a short series against another team doesn't mean you're a better team. My beloved Orioles just took 2 of 3 from the Yankees in Yankee Stadium, and are 7-5 against them so far this season. But I don't think anyone who knows anything about major league baseball would try and argue that that makes the Orioles a better team than the Yankees.

But one thing is true in MLB, teams that rarely walk and play small ball do not fare too well against teams that make pitchers throw strikes and play for the big inning ("Pitching, defense, and 3-run homers win ball games," as Earl Weaver used to say). And, as a rule, NPB teams rarely walk and like to play small ball.

AssKissinger wrote:They should just see who can throw the ball farther.

Sounds about right.

Keep in mind AK that in the WBC, the best players on every nation's team were major league players. The US team was not synonomous with an All Star MLB team. On the other hand, the Japan team was the NPB All Stars plus a few MLB players. (And the same goes for international basketball and the NBA and international hockey and the NHL, in general, not with respect to Japan).

Yeah, I thought about that but still you get what I mean.

But one thing is true in MLB, teams that rarely walk and play small ball do not fare too well against teams that make pitchers throw strikes and play for the big inning ("Pitching, defense, and 3-run homers win ball games," as Earl Weaver used to say). And, as a rule, NPB teams rarely walk and like to play small ball.

Well, they eat away at you with that shit though. Especially combined with really solid fielding. I can't really say.

What would more likely drag out a game is a series of scoreless innings. The new rule makes it easier for both sides to score but teams rarely score evenly in succession so one team ought to come out on top quickly in extra innings play.

I know. I thought that too. It's just so lame. I hope the games go on forever with both teams cracking one run an inning for hours on end.

AssKissinger wrote:Well, they eat away at you with that shit though. Especially combined with really solid fielding. I can't really say.

I hear what you're saying AK. From a fan's perspective, I guess it just comes down to a matter of taste. And I guess one could argue that from a manager's perspective, if you don't have the power hitters, you don't have much of a chance of being successful at playing "moneyball" and are better off trying to win via small ball.

But for me, it's hard not to see small ball as the manifestation of an ego maniacal manager (a la Ochiai or Ozzie Guillen) trying to steal the limelight away from the guys on the field trying to make the plays.

Gilligan wrote:
But for me, it's hard not to see small ball as the manifestation of an ego maniacal manager (a la Ochiai or Ozzie Guillen) trying to steal the limelight away from the guys on the field trying to make the plays.

This goes back again to Hoshino. He is such a raging racist against foreign baseball, it's really tough to listening to him doing color on a broadcast.

I did love it that during his rant against the new rule and how it was the US that was behind it, the other announcer interjected that it was "our" Japanese rep (on the International Baseball Association) that voted for this rule over other alternatives). Hoshino looked like he was hit with a shovel and then dropped the subject altogether (at least for that interview).