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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ F*cked News

Just a lot of hot water

Odd news from Japan and all things Japanese around the world.
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50 posts • Page 1 of 2 • 1, 2

Just a lot of hot water

Postby Captain Japan » Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:27 pm

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Poll: 87% of `onsen' not what they seem

Asahi Shimbun
Bathers already steaming over a recent deluge of spa-mislabeling scandals will likely wonder what ``natural'' hot springs really are when they learn the results of a recent land ministry survey.

Nearly nine out of 10 hotels and inns with onsen hot springs dilute, heat or recycle their spa water. And almost 80 percent of them do not tell their patrons, the survey shows.
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nuc-u-lar onsen?

Postby omae mona » Fri Oct 01, 2004 2:54 pm

But 17 admitted they soak patrons with ``artificial'' onsen that use thoron, a radioactive isotope that gives water that mineral-rich appearance, or with simple heated tap water.

8O
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Re: nuc-u-lar onsen?

Postby Taro Toporific » Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:15 pm

omae mona wrote:
But 17 admitted they soak patrons with ``artificial'' onsen that use thoron, a radioactive isotope that gives water that mineral-rich appearance, or with simple heated tap water.



WOT? Don't ya know that: "a certain amount of radium or thoron, good for digestive disorder." --- East creative Inc.
ImageEben McBurney Byers, a steel heir, died horribly after taking more than a thousand bottles of "radium water." Water irradiators were sold that promised to infuse water placed within them with radon, which was thought to be good for you at the time.
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Postby omae mona » Fri Oct 01, 2004 5:30 pm

Federation Gaming Network writes:
Science: Physics: Anti-thoron Radiation
Energetic anti-particles.

Anti-thoron bombardment is used to decontaminate a planetary crust before polyferranide can be excavated.


Hmm.. I thought it was the job of the shower stalls OUTSIDE the onsen to decontaminate the planetary crust.

Anyway, to understand other reasons they're using Thoron:

The Particles Of Star Trek writes:
thoron
Naturally occuring. Radioactive isotope by-product from the decay of thorium. Thorium is also known as radon-220.

* DS9: If Wishes Were Horses - Elevated thoron emissions accompanied the appearance of aliens in the Denorios Belt.
* DS9: The Emissary - A thoron field was used as a shield against Cardassian sensors by the crew of DS9 to hide the true strength of the station.
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Postby Samurai_Jerk » Sun Oct 03, 2004 12:12 pm

I've never understood the obsession with sitting in a cess pool and looking at a bunch of other dudes' schlongs anyway.
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Postby Taro Toporific » Fri Oct 29, 2004 6:12 pm

omae mona wrote:Federation Gaming Network writes:
Physics of Star Trek wrote:Science: Physics: Anti-thoron Radiation
Energetic anti-particles.
Anti-thoron bombardment is used to decontaminate a planetary crust before polyferranide can be excavated.



While scientists debate its hazards, health-seekers bathe in the glow of radon
10/27/04
OFUNA, Japan (AP)
_ To many scientists, it's a gas so toxic it's almost evil. It's been singled out as the second-leading cause of lung cancer in the United States, right behind smoking. It even killed the woman who discovered it _ Madame Marie Curie.
But to Shiro Umeda, sprightly at 74, radon is the best thing since aspirin.
Every month for the past 10 years, he has come to a radon bath here to soak it up and breathe it in...

Town of Misasa Tottori wrote:Three main types of hot springs can be found in Misasa :
-radioactivity/sodium/chlorides containing springs,
-radioactivity/sodium chlorides/carbonic acid and hydrogen containing springs,
-radioactivity containing springs.
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Latest Onsen Fad: Radon

Postby AssKissinger » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:44 pm

take the plunge

Image

OFUNA, Japan - It has been singled out as the second-leading cause of lung cancer in the United States, right behind smoking. But to Shiro Umeda, sprightly at 74, radon is the best thing since aspirin.



Every month for the past 10 years, he has come to a radon bath here to soak it up and breathe it in. He's convinced it has helped ease his back pain and improve his overall health.
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Postby AssKissinger » Mon Nov 08, 2004 7:44 pm

Related Thread :arrow: http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8748&highlight=radon

More quotes (cause I hate the way news links die so quickly)

Undaunted by warnings from the scientific community that the highly radioactive gas is a carcinogen, tens of thousands of health-seekers like Umeda are drawn each year to hot springs in Japan that claim radon can cure an array of ills.


"Not a doubt in my mind," Umeda said after a recent session. "It makes me feel better."


The popularity of radon is nothing new.


At the turn of the century, its curative powers were believed to be so strong that products containing radon or radium, its parent element, ranged from toothpaste and beauty creams to chocolate bars.


Research has since led most health experts to make an about-face.


Most, but not all.


While acknowledging that high doses are undoubtedly dangerous, Yutaka Okumura, a professor of radiology at Nagasaki University, a leading center of radiation research, said the issue may be less simple than some of the more dire cautions suggest.


Okumura cited a study he participated in that found cancer fatalities between 1976 and 1993 among more than 4,300 people living near one of Japan's most famous radon springs, Misasa, were significantly lower than rates elsewhere. Radon levels in the test area were roughly 70 becquerels per cubic meter, or about three times higher than those in the control areas.


"I believe people who frequent radon hot springs may be less likely to die of cancer," he said.


However, Nagasaki University professor Shunichi Yamashita, a colleague of Okumura's who specializes in the effects of radiation on atomic-bomb victims, said many radon hot springs are safe simply because, unlike Misasa, they don't actually have much radon.


"Japanese radon baths use so little radon, almost nonmeasurable or close to zero, that there should be no worries at all," he said.


Other than Okumura's cancer study, there is also little evidence linking radon to any specific health benefits. Claims like radon-believer Umeda's are often explained by researchers as the result of the placebo effect, or to the soothing heat of the bathwater itself.


That the gas can be deadly is not a question.


Radon, produced by the decay of radium, is classified as a carcinogen by the World Health Organization (news - web sites). The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (news - web sites) estimates radon in indoor air causes about 21,000 deaths each year in the United States alone, and is the leading cause of lung cancer after smoking.


Its first known victim was Marie Curie, who won her second Nobel Prize in 1911 for discovering radium and another radioactive element. She eventually developed chronic radiation sickness from her daily contact with radon and radium and died of leukemia.





The gas normally enters the body through inhalation. Most is exhaled right back out again, but some can accumulate in the lungs, where its radioactive decay can harm the tissue around it and lead to cancer.

Such warnings are nowhere to be found at this popular indoor radon bath on Tokyo's southern outskirts. Signs instead claim radon can tame everything from high blood pressure to hemorrhoids.

"Alpha waves emitted by the gas are brought into the body when you breathe," one sign says. "They go to every corner of your capillaries. ... This active metabolization brought about by radon is the cause of its refreshing and rehabilitating powers."

Pamphlets for the center add that its "health rooms" are "pumped full of radon from six large-scale radon-producing machines." The bath's manager refused to comment on the specifics, but said the machines used are set to "safe levels."

Whether that's even possible is a matter of debate.

"There is no safe level of radon — any exposure poses some risk of cancer," the EPA says on its Radon Information Web site.

The Japanese government, meanwhile, has taken a very different stance.

"For now, we don't see the need to regulate radon," said Ryosuke Murayama, of the science agency's nuclear regulation office. "Radon that exists in the air is minimal, and thus poses little health danger."
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Postby dimwit » Mon Nov 08, 2004 9:33 pm

AssKissinger wrote:Related Thread :arrow: http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8748&highlight=radon

Such warnings are nowhere to be found at this popular indoor radon bath on Tokyo's southern outskirts. Signs instead claim radon can tame everything from high blood pressure to hemorrhoids.

"Alpha waves emitted by the gas are brought into the body when you breathe," one sign says. "They go to every corner of your capillaries. ... This active metabolization brought about by radon is the cause of its refreshing and rehabilitating powers."

Pamphlets for the center add that its "health rooms" are "pumped full of radon from six large-scale radon-producing machines." The bath's manager refused to comment on the specifics, but said the machines used are set to "safe levels."



Hey radon probably does kill athletes' foots (along with the athlete) and a number of other disgusting skin diseases that one is likely to pick up visiting onsens. :twisted:
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Postby yakinoumiso » Mon Nov 08, 2004 10:12 pm

"What, that snake? No, we used to catch snakes like that all the time when I was a kid...
Watch!"
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Live Long And Prosper

Postby emperor » Tue Nov 09, 2004 12:38 am

Maybe these Radon spas could be rebranded as "Di-lithium Baths" and attract some Trekkie-money ... or Latenum :wink:

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[size=84]Every fight is a food fight...
...when you're a cannibal[/SIZE]
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Toxic waste onsen?

Postby Taro Toporific » Thu Nov 25, 2004 11:48 am

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Re: Toxic waste onsen?

Postby Captain Japan » Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:58 pm

Image
Watering Down the Healing Waters of Japan
New York Times (subscription)
FOR foreigners, it is a time-honored image of Japan: a meditative soak in the mineral waters of a hot spring, preferably pondering jagged black volcanic rocks, a bough of cherry blossoms, or even, for the most luxurious, the snow-streaked slopes of Mount Fuji. Few knew that offstage, hotel employees might be surreptitiously piping in heated tap water, recycling old water between natural rock pools or even dumping coloring powders into water to make it look rich in minerals.

For Japanese, who cherish the cleansing, calming and healing mystique of a hot spring, or onsen, vacation, the scandal has almost been as traumatic as Japan's dispatch of soldiers to Iraq. After a steady drumbeat of confessions and apologies from hot spring owners, this fall the Environment Ministry conducted a survey of water use practices at 19,445 onsens. The results confirmed some of the worst fears of customers, often women who are office workers in their 30's and who cling to hygienic standards bordering on perfection.

Though anonymity was guaranteed, 40 percent of the nation's hot spring owners declined to respond to the survey. Of the respondents, about a third said they diluted their hot spring baths with tap water, half said they recycled their water through filters, and half said they heated their water.
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Bathing is Good For You

Postby Mulboyne » Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:02 am

Washington Times: Japan pumps tax money for a long, hot soak
From reducing stress to preventing memory loss, bathing is good for you, so concluded the Japanese government. What's more, Japan's health ministry said Monday it's willing to foot the tab to encourage more people to enjoy a long, hot soak in the tub. From next year, the Japanese government will actively encourage elderly people in particular to visit public baths as a means to keep its citizens healthy and happy. But the key point in healthy bathing is to stretch out and soak in a large pool-sized tub with water at around 41 degrees Celsius (105.8 degrees Fahrenheit), preferably in five-minute intervals two or three times per session... Still, bathing isn't without risks, either. One problem is that about 3,000 people die each year while bathing as blood circulation to the brain becomes too rapid. Nearly 80 percent of those who die from such a cause are over 65 years old.
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Postby NeoNecroNomiCron » Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:43 pm

Japanese onsen are not that hot. Everytime I had a bath growing up(showers are not popular in my family) I would always have the temp at max.
When I first came here I lived in a dorm that has its own small is sento. It was great. But when I wanted it to myself. I used to turn on the hot water... frog in boiling water effect. I didnt mind but nobody could enter. Even the bravest Japanese guy.
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Re: Bathing is Good For You

Postby kurohinge1 » Wed Feb 09, 2005 12:45 pm

Mulboyne wrote:Washington Times: ...
... From next year, the Japanese government will actively encourage elderly people in particular to visit public baths ...
... to stretch out and soak in a large pool-sized tub with water at around 41 degrees Celsius (105.8 degrees Fahrenheit) ...
One problem is that about 3,000 people die each year while bathing as blood circulation to the brain becomes too rapid. Nearly 80 percent of those who die from such a cause are over 65 years old ...

Wait! Don't go! It's a trap!

A cunning plan by the government to turn the elderly into soap!
Knock them off and then process them while they're steamed and malleable.
I saw through this rogue scheme straight away :evil:

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See also: Back to work you old slackers!

Now, where did I put my medication :wink:
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I don't know

Postby canman » Wed Feb 09, 2005 2:07 pm

There is nothing better than a good soak in a nice hot tub. I agree the ones that are over 42C are way to hot, and you come out feeling like a lobster, but anything under that is fine. I particularly like the mist saunas. I don't like the dry hot ones as the inside of my nose burns like hell. But I think all in all they are pretty healthy. Excpet for the ones using nuclear waste as an additive. There is another thread discussing that. Or ask Taro I think he is an expert on it.
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Postby American Oyaji » Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:43 pm

The heat is something you definitely have to get used to.

Don't give up on it. Stay a little bit longer than you think you can stand it. You will actually get used to it.

I would love to be in Japan and get into a hot sento.
I will not abide ignorant intolerance just for the sake of getting along.
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Postby Mulboyne » Mon Feb 14, 2005 6:12 am

Firm sees profit in Japan's hot springs
New York investment group Goldman Sachs is seeing business opportunities in Japan's hot springs, a local paper reported Sunday. According to the Asahi Shimbun, Goldman Sachs is stepping up efforts to buy Japanese inns specialized in offering hot spring therapy. The group is expected to purchase a number of unprofitable inns, revitalize them with new management and a fresh business strategy, and then sell them for a profit, the newspaper reported. Asahi noted Goldman has already been successful in buying loss-making Japanese golf clubs during the past few years and turning them around.

Asahi Original Article (Japanese Only)
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Postby Captain Japan » Wed Mar 09, 2005 1:07 pm

Here's a little more info on Goldman...
Hot spring ryokan lure U.S. investor
Asahi
Goldman Sachs leverages golf course expertise in move to rehabilitate Japanese inns.

After becoming one of the biggest players in the Japanese golf business, the Goldman Sachs group is getting its feet wet in hot spring inns.

Since the latter half of 2004, the U.S.-based investment bank has been acquiring financially troubled onsen ryokan, Japanese-style inns featuring hot spring baths.

In November, Goldman Sachs announced it will acquire Komaki Hot Spring Shibusawa Park Co., an Aomori Prefecture onsen ryokan, which has filed for bankruptcy protection.

The company has also been assisting Izumiso, a long-established onsen ryokan in Ito, Shizuoka Prefecture. The facility initiated rehabilitation procedures in January.

The Komaki hot spring posted overall sales of about 8 billion yen for the year ending December 2003. For 10 straight years since 1992, it held first place in Nippon no Onsen Hyakusen, a rating of the nation's 100 best hot springs compiled by Tourism Economy News Inc.

Meanwhile, Izumiso's annual sales are relatively modest at about 800 million yen....more...
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Postby Mulboyne » Fri Jun 24, 2005 10:32 pm

Bloomberg: Goldman Plunges Into Japan Spas, Aiming at Golf Redux
Goldman Sachs may buy more resorts. Japan's regional banks, which own about 90 percent of the country's spas, are trying to shed 10.4 trillion yen ($95.6 billion) of nonperforming loans. The banks approached Goldman Sachs to invest in hot-springs resorts, the company said in April, without giving details or naming the lenders. At the start of last year, Japan had about 59,750 "onsen ryokan," or resorts and inns with spas, according to the Ministry of Health, Labor and Welfare in Tokyo. In 1980, nine years before property prices collapsed, there were 83,226. Goldman Sachs may buy more resorts. Japan's regional banks, which own about 90 percent of the country's spas, are trying to shed 10.4 trillion yen ($95.6 billion) of nonperforming loans. The banks approached Goldman Sachs to invest in hot-springs resorts, the company said in April, without giving details or naming the lenders..."Japanese hot springs are something peculiar to our culture," says Seiji Horiuchi. "Goldman Sachs? We don't want a U.S. atmosphere, but we would like them to help maintain Japan's heart and soul."
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put us on your dole

Postby homesweethome » Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:38 pm

"Goldman Sachs? We don't want a U.S. atmosphere, but we would like them to help maintain Japan's heart and soul."


In other words, give us your money and we will gladly suck you members, up to a point. The point being: We have enough of your money, now get the HELL OUT
Look what happened to Huis Ten Bosche :lol:
Stay on the bomb run boys. I'm goin' to get them doors open if it hare lips everybody on Bear Creek.
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Re: put us on your dole

Postby Tsuru » Sat Jun 25, 2005 7:41 pm

homesweethome wrote:
"Goldman Sachs? We don't want a U.S. atmosphere, but we would like them to help maintain Japan's heart and soul."


In other words, give us your money and we will gladly suck you members, up to a point. The point being: We have enough of your money, now get the HELL OUT
Look what happened to Huis Ten Bosche :lol:
I know it went bankrupt a few years ago, but can you tell me what exactly happened? :?:
"Doing engineering calculations with the imperial system is like wiping your ass with acorns, it works, but it's painful and stupid."

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what happened

Postby homesweethome » Sat Jun 25, 2005 8:20 pm

I know it went bankrupt a few years ago, but can you tell me what exactly happened?


I have to tell you I don't know EXACTLY what happened except they couldn't pay back the 2 billion $US Dollars they borrowed to make the place. However when it started they hired thousands (myself included) of foreign nationals to serve as entertainers, maintainenance workers, waiters, waitresess, bartenders, magicians, translators, everything you can imagine, to create this 'image' of a foreign country in Japan (Sasebo/Nagasaki). Then after a while the foreigners realized that the promises made to recruit them would never be fulfilled. They would never be accepted as 'real' employees and given 'real' responsibility and benefits equal to native hires. Eventually all of them either quit voluntarily, or were fired in a mass gaijin clean out around 1993-94. The remaining Gaijin all were contract workers hired from Disneyland/Chiba try to further the 'image' of the foreign. They constisted of about 100 'parade' workers and their horses who had nothing to do except for two 20 minute parades in the AM and PM. Even they got fed up and left.

Eventually things caught up with the management. Even the patrons of HTB noticed the difference. They decided to take their yen elsewhere. Then the overseas bailout artists were called in. They lost, and now who knows who maintains the tulips at HTB today. It is too big to let fall,and too rotten to revive. Even JR Kyushu (who built a special train line to service the place) can't afford to let HTB fall. Now it's in the hands of the native specialists. No doubt they will call in the gaijin mercenary to set things right for a small fraction of what should have been spent to plant the seed right in the first place. :x
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Postby Tsuru » Sat Jun 25, 2005 9:06 pm

Thanks for the input... really appreciate it! :D

Always wondered what was wrong with it as quite frankly I though it was quite nice, even for a Japanese themepark (and not just because it's about Holland either ;) )
"Doing engineering calculations with the imperial system is like wiping your ass with acorns, it works, but it's painful and stupid."

"Plus, it's British."

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Re: what happened

Postby Mulboyne » Sun Jun 26, 2005 12:27 am

homesweethome wrote:Then the overseas bailout artists were called in. They lost, and now who knows who maintains the tulips at HTB today.

The overseas bailout artists never got near the place although they wanted to get involved. When it was put up for sale, Nomura bought it ahead of the foreign bidders. At the time, Ripplewood had just bought Seagaia so local private equity operators thought that theme parks might be a good bet. Seagaia has proved to be a bit of a handful for Ripplewood and I suspect HTB is the same for Nomura.
I'm certain that foreign employees were treated poorly by the original management but the project was in financial distress even before it opened. It always needed a rise in land prices or a massive boost in domestic tourism to succeed. Neither was likely and, as we now know, neither came about.
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HTB

Postby homesweethome » Sun Jun 26, 2005 8:06 am

Mulboyne wrote:
the project was in financial distress even before it opened. It always needed a rise in land prices or a massive boost in domestic tourism to succeed.


This is true, but I was talking about the foreign takover artists that were sniffing at the place long before the bankruptcy, Ripplewood, and Nomura. These fellows in dark suits, sunglasses and European accents used to walk around the park in groups of three or four with a tightly dressed Japanese woman tranlator, pointing thier fingers at everything and whispering among themselves. The Men In Black were what we called them among the folks that worked there. Rumor had it they were Dutch bankers trying to figure how to get their money back, or some kind of consulting firm. I never heard the real snuff till it was too late. It turned out they were 'scrap dealers' trying to pick up bits and pieces of what they thought were valuable. Unfortunately (or fortunately) what the HTB management wanted to unload and what these guys were interested in never jelled.
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Postby Captain Japan » Mon Feb 19, 2007 9:53 am

Japan's hot springs losing their bounce, sinking fast
Mainichi
After months of frigid weather, your skin's dry and flaky, your joints throb, and you're convinced the sensible way to get warm and cozy is to do things the Japanese way; which means heading for a major spa resort, like Beppu Onsen (in Oita) or Kusatsu Onsen (in Gunma), getting naked, and soaking away all your aches and pains, right?

Maybe. Or maybe not, reports Shukan Post (2/23). The way things are shaping up, it might make more sense to just plan a vacation in the southern hemisphere.

It seems that on February 6, Japan's Environment Agency sent to the Diet proposed revisions in the law that would make it obligatory for hot springs operators to periodically submit samples of their water for analysis once every 10 years. And establishments found unable to meet these standards would lose their right to bill themselves as true "onsen."...more...

Ten years is an awful lot of time.
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Postby EZPZ » Mon Feb 19, 2007 12:49 pm

The unmonitored addition of radon into bath water is imo, pretty stupid. The various people who think that "just a little bit" of radiation can have beneficial health aspects are fooling themselves and do not understand the science. Long-term studies into "radiation hormesis", what the quack theory is called have shown that there is no benefit to exposing oneself to any amount of extra radiation. Cancer rates are purely proportional with the amount of exposure.

If people can get skin cancer by repeated low-dose exposure to UV light, then the same should be true of radon. There is no radiation defense mechanism the body has save programmed cell-death; and if that gets screwed up by exposure well then you have uncontrollable cell growth, or cancer.

Does anyone have any information on how much radon is typically added to onsen water? It would be interesting to see if one could do a hypothetical dosimetry calculation using Radon-222 as an alpha emitter.
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Postby Greji » Mon Feb 19, 2007 1:43 pm

EZPZ wrote:The unmonitored addition of radon into bath water is imo, pretty stupid


Now the real reason for the breakdown in the baby making machines comes to light! Pops has been dipping in the radon onsens and PRESTO, grilled gonads!
:cool:
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