It only took 39 years for the Japan Government to admit it made a mistake.




http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/geted.pl5?ed20050726a1.htm

The origin of the Narita tragedy can be attributed to the government's abrupt 1966 decision that chose Narita for the new airport over Tokyo Bay and Kasumigaura in Ibaraki Prefecture. The government miscalculated. It failed to understand the strong emotional attachment of Narita farmers to their land. This kind of mistake must not be repeated in any future government-sponsored, large-scale project. Narita's history suggests that only when the government pursues sincere dialogue with affected local residents can such a project proceed with their blessing.

And this it carried out on it's own citizens. The government still won't (and probably never will) admit to making a mistake in Nanking, Korea, Phillipines, ad. nausium.

So uhh... 8 families cost the govt how many hundred million bucks? I'd say the J-govt more than kowtows to these fucking farmers in the first place. For what other reason do we pay 2000 yen for a bag of rice, or 200 for a single ear of corn? Let's not even bring up beef. Protectionism. Fuck 'em, I say. Fuck 'em right in their little rice paddies.

The headline is kinda misleading... I mean, KIX was a mistake. It'll probably NEVER make money. I dunno about narita's financials, but I know it's not as bad as KIX.

Remember, also, that "article" is not a news article but a corporate editorial of the editorial board of the Japan Times, written by a member of the editorial board, and it is NOT a news story. It is just one of the daily corporate opinions that newspapers execs have to publish every day, on something or other.

A news story would have been better. Is there a news story on this issue, a new story, I mean?

Some of Japan's Airports


After making a dazzling debut with the objective of becoming a hub of Asia almost 10 years ago, Kansai International Airport is in a situation akin to being in a fog with poor visibility - Asian Airports, No.1!.. not Japan
shackled by the debt from the colossal construction cost of some 1.5 trillion yen.., originally estimated at 1 trillion yen, rose because of ground subsidence and cost overruns on building so-calledluxurious facilities.
Japanese airports are over priced sh*tholes
Kobe, which as you'll know is a good 30 mins drive from Osaka, has been building their own airport since 1999
Narita is grim, boring, inconvenient and overpriced. A perfect symbol for Japan. It's such a dump that when the Starbcks opened, it was an improvement. we can't deny the possibility of the whole island
sinking completely into the ocean since it will be built in deeper water and
the level of engineering technology required is even higher," Takada of Osaka Uni said. KIAC
suffered a 23,723 million-yen ($214million at 111 yen/dollar), following
losses after opening

http://edition.cnn.com/2005/TRAVEL/03/24/bt.asirport.survey/index.html

no mention of Japanese ?

torasan wrote:Remember, also, that "article" is not a news article but a corporate editorial of the editorial board of the Japan Times

Quite. The headline is misleading because the government has not said that Narita was a mistake.

This is the article headline when I clicked on it:

Narita fiasco: never again

A mediation group of five intellectuals led by the late Mikio Sumiya, former president of Tokyo Woman's Christian University, helped set up meetings between local farmers and the government. The latter eventually apologized for how it forced airport construction and withdrew its plan for the second phase of construction.

Fuck the goddam farmers. I wish every government in the world would stop subsidizing their farmers and make them actually experience a competative market. If they start rioting and committing acts of terrorism (and you know they will), send in the military to put them out of their misery.

jingai wrote:This is the article headline when I clicked on it:

Narita fiasco: never again

A mediation group of five intellectuals led by the late Mikio Sumiya, former president of Tokyo Woman's Christian University, helped set up meetings between local farmers and the government. The latter eventually apologized for how it forced airport construction and withdrew its plan for the second phase of construction.

Dimwit's Motto: If you can't get what you want through force or fraud try grovelling.


The farmer there deserve the kind of love that only a bulldozer can provide.

Samurai_Jerk wrote:Fuck the goddam farmers. I wish every government in the world would stop subsidizing their farmers and make them actually experience a competative market. If they start rioting and committing acts of terrorism (and you know they will), send in the military to put them out of their misery.

This Narita and Japanese farmers thing I remember well watching the 'terrorists' attack the control tower and being subdued by riot police on the news (I was not even in Japan) and feeling somewhat sorry for the poor folks who got kicked out of their homes. However after living among them for quite a while I tend toward the above opinion.

There is a thread (by Dimwit) on farming in Japan.
http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12024

Narita is a poorly sited sorry excuse for an international airport. May it again be a rice paddy some day.

My only beef with it is that when I had a 6 hour layover coming home from Nagoya it took me an hour and a half both ways getting to Tokyo which just left me with enough time to have lunch at TGI Friday's in Ginza. How's that for a first genuine Tokyo experience?

Narita is a typical strange duck. The so-called Sanrizuka farmers, which were an original group of farmers, later reduced to one guy, backed by various self-interest groups that did everything they could for years to block the construction and subsequent enlargement of Narita Airport.

The Governor of Chiba who was originally responsible for getting it moved out there, immediately went to jail without passing go and collecting 200 dollars for kick-backs and accepting fringies from Construction and Dango Japan incorporated. Currently, with Haneda being enlarged and renovated, a lot of the Narita area people (to include many who were originally in the opposition group) are now afraid it is going to move back to Haneda and are doing heavy lobbying to prevent this from happening. Obviously, if Narita closes, they will be left with nothing but some nice concrete rice paddies as there is nothing else out there that is not in support of the airport! The city of Narita almost entirely exists on the airport related businesses and Naritasan itself.

It would be nice to have an airport that wasn't two days journey to reach!

gboothe wrote: Obviously, if Narita closes, they will be left with nothing but some nice concrete rice paddies as there is nothing else out there that is not in support of the airport! The city of Narita almost entirely exists on the airport related businesses and Naritasan itself.

The U.S. military wants (or wanted) it. If not them the J-SDF will take it over and make a base there. This is pretty old news I think.

Narita airport had agreed to reduce an overall 11% on its tariffs, a move that would save the airline industry $86m a year.
http://www.businessday.co.za/articles/topstories.aspx?ID=BD4A128196
Other airports that had reduced their tariffs included Brisbane, Changi, San Francisco, Athens and Melbourne, he said.

Too right they made a mistake, they could have put the aiport on odaiba or made Haneda the international airport but nooooooooo too simple. Let's make the tourist who aren't put off by high airport taxes even more angry by making them travel an hour just to get to Tokyo station. What other developed world as it's major international airport so far from the city?!!

Narita is the worst but London Heathrow isn't particularly good. The cheap underground train will take you nearly an hour to the centre of London and a number of stations are poorly equipped with lifts and stairs - especially when changing lines. A taxi is also about an hour and costs around 50 pounds.

The situation improved, however, in the 90's with the opening of the overground Heathrow Express to Paddington which takes only 15 minutes (23 from Terminal 4) although it's expensive at 14 pounds one-way.

Just got back from Narita. Yes it is a hike - however the issue is people in major cities won't put up with dealing with being in flight paths either (see the controversial 3rd runway of Sydney airport).

When travelling to and from Japan you just gotta add that extra time into the travel itinary.

gomichild wrote:Just got back from Narita. Yes it is a hike - however the issue is people in major cities won't put up with dealing with being in flight paths either (see the controversial 3rd runway of Sydney airport).

When travelling to and from Japan you just gotta add that extra time into the travel itinary.

Damn! You made it back? I had all my mates chumming up and down the coast for white pointers and you two actually made it out of the surf. Shoganai, welcome back to the paradise of the Orient.

gboothe wrote:

gomichild wrote:Just got back from Narita. Yes it is a hike - however the issue is people in major cities won't put up with dealing with being in flight paths either (see the controversial 3rd runway of Sydney airport).

When travelling to and from Japan you just gotta add that extra time into the travel itinary.

Damn! You made it back? I had all my mates chumming up and down the coast for white pointers and you two actually made it out of the surf. Shoganai, welcome back to the paradise of the Orient.

I'm sorry I posted that. I just looked at CNN:

"....Australian woman killed by shark

Saturday, January 7, 2006 Posted: 1230 GMT (2030 HKT)

MELBOURNE, Australia (Reuters) -- An Australian woman has died after she was attacked by a shark while swimming with friends at an island near the city of Brisbane in Queensland state, police said Saturday.

The 21-year-old woman from Brisbane was at Amity Point, on North Stradbroke Island when she was attacked, losing both arms up to the elbow and also suffering a flesh wound to the leg.

"She was taken to Princess Alexandra Hospital but has died as a result of her injuries," a Queensland Police spokeswoman told Reuters. She said no further details were available...."

BTW, GC how far is Brisbane from the Gold Coast, remembering your post on my shark in the other thread?

No no we already left South Australia where those buggers are - in the Gold Coast now....

Yeah I read that story - we were swimming and messing around just a couple of days before on South Stradbroke island...with locals though.

It's about 2-2 and a half hours direct flight from Adelaide to Brisbane, then a 90 mins train ride from Brissy airport to the Gold Coast.

Different types of sharks though - White Pointers in Sth Aust - they think these were Bull or Tiger sharks. Queensland water too warm for Whities.

Side note: the Airtrain in Brisbane is way crappier than your average regular train in Japan - and there is no nice lady with a trolley coming along to supply you with beer either. Also buy drinks and snacks in the airport itself - there is not even a vending machine at the train station!

They should have built some kind of Shinkansen rapid train from the Tokyo area out to Narita Airport.
Instead, they spent their money on projects like the Nagano Shinkansen which I think is under used.
From Yokohama I usually take the bus as it is cheaper, more frequent, and sometimes faster than JR Narita Express.

Whilst the limosine bus from Yokohama can be faster than the Narita Express - i just find it too clumsy and awkward to use. Trapsing suitcases through JR Yokohama isn't fun at the quietest of times. Came back two days ago and the station was heaving.

Why they didn't build a rapid train network alongside the normal JR was crazy - but I guess seeing as they got an airport out of the farmers would have been difficult to get an express train network too.

Stupid question but I recently heard a rumour that a lot of the airspace over Tokyo is controlled by the US of A? Is this just a student talking bull or is it real?

You're probably hearing about Yokota airbase

cstaylor wrote:You're probably hearing about Yokota airbase

Where's that?

maninjapan wrote:Stupid question but I recently heard a rumour that a lot of the airspace over Tokyo is controlled by the US of A? Is this just a student talking bull or is it real?

Chalk it up to bull. A lot of groups like to publize this as under US control, specifically, the US Military. This propaganda, primarily for use in their anti-US/anti-base activities. It is not correct. There are specific military air corridors designated and reserved, as well as no-fly zones (i.e. they frown on you buzzing the Imperial Palace in your Cessna) the same as in any country. The military corridors are for the use of JASDF (Japan Air Self Defense Force) and the US Forces. But other than these, all flight corridors and traffic control are entirely under the control of the Japanese equivalent of the Civil Aeronautics Board.

gboothe wrote:

maninjapan wrote:Stupid question but I recently heard a rumour that a lot of the airspace over Tokyo is controlled by the US of A? Is this just a student talking bull or is it real?

Chalk it up to bull. A lot of groups like to publize this as under US control, specifically, the US Military. This propaganda, primarily for use in their anti-US/anti-base activities. It is not correct. There are specific military air corridors designated and reserved, as well as no-fly zones (i.e. they frown on you buzzing the Imperial Palace in your Cessna) the same as in any country. The military corridors are for the use of JASDF (Japan Air Self Defense Force) and the US Forces. But other than these, all flight corridors and traffic control are entirely under the control of the Japanese equivalent of the Civil Aeronautics Board.

This is very correct in peace time. Japan has total control over the airspace over it's country more or less. The alternative to this though is what they call an: 'Activation Orders Request' which means if Japan is attacked from abroad and formally requests US assistance (which of course they will do) all air space over Japan comes under the authority of SINPAC which of course controls all US Naval and Air assets in the region.

The nationalists like to harp on this extensively as a breech of the Yamato religion.
Too bad, but Japan lost the war.

homesweethome wrote:This is very correct in peace time. Japan has total control over the airspace over it's country more or less. The alternative to this though is what they call an: 'Activation Orders Request' which means if Japan is attacked from abroad and formally requests US assistance (which of course they will do) all air space over Japan comes under the authority of SINPAC which of course controls all US Naval and Air assets in the region.

HSH is essentially correct. I assume you mean CINCPAC, but that is a formality. The on-scene commander will be issuing the orders. It also would depend also how the action is conviened, i.e. if it were it were Parallel38N's beloved Dear Leader attacking, it could probably be considered a continuation of the Korean War, or breech of the treaty agreement, and become a UN conflict. Still the front commander would probably be the theater commander from the US!

At any rate the air lanes would have to be controled by the military to keep civil aircraft out of high risk areas or on-going combat air space. If I were a civilian driving or riding on a civil flight at such a time, I would probably prefer to have the military calling the shots, so they wouldn't be aimed at me.

The nationalists like to harp on this extensively as a breech of the Yamato religion.
Too bad, but Japan lost the war.

The same religious thinking that brought you the so-called Banzai Charges! They believed that you should die for your country if put in a difficult situation. Fit nicely with General George Patton's thinking. He believed that you should not try to die for your country, but you should make sure that you did every thing you could to see that the other son of a bitch died for his!

" wrote:

homesweethome wrote:
HSH is essentially correct. I assume you mean CINCPAC, but that is a formality. The on-scene commander will be issuing the orders. It also would depend also how the action is conviened, i.e. if it were it were Parallel38N's beloved Dear Leader attacking,

Caught Skinned and Fried, eeha!
Experimenting with alternative personalities till the prescribtion expires.
So sorry.

" wrote:

gboothe wrote:

homesweethome wrote:
HSH is essentially correct. I assume you mean CINCPAC, but that is a formality. The on-scene commander will be issuing the orders. It also would depend also how the action is conviened, i.e. if it were it were Parallel38N's beloved Dear Leader attacking,

Caught Skinned and Fried, eeha!
Experimenting with alternative personalities till the prescribtion expires.
So sorry.

Head em up, move em out!
hehehe

UPI via Science Daily: Japan may give U.S. priority in emergency

Japan is considering giving U.S. forces priority use of ports and airports in the event of an emergency in the Taiwan Strait or areas surrounding Japan. The proposed revision of a 1999 law, which would force local governments to let U.S. forces use the facilities in such emergencies, is expected to be submitted to the Diet by the end of the year, the Yomiuri Shimbun reported Thursday.

The existing law says that, in the event of a direct military attack on Japan, the prime minister can give Japan's Self-Defense Forces and U.S. forces priority in using domestic commercial ports and airports. However, this privilege until now has not included emergency situations in the region surrounding Japan, including Taiwan or the Korean Peninsula. In such emergencies, the U.S. military would use Japanese airports for cargo planes carrying personnel, equipment and supplies from the U.S. mainland or Hawaii, the newspaper reported.