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Postby cstaylor » Mon Oct 21, 2002 2:50 pm

Somehow I don't think this will work. Who would pay $2,000 to come to Japan and gamble when you can go to Las Vegas and have some real fun. :?:
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Postby GomiGirl » Mon Oct 21, 2002 3:19 pm

They wouldn't be big tourist casinos - rather grabbing the pachinko market. Bit similar to the casinos run by native americans... or similar to the small local casinos in Macau... caters to the locals.
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Postby kamome » Mon Oct 21, 2002 7:09 pm

My question is, which economy will be helped by bringing in casinos? If they're just for pachinko-like diversion, then it will bring tons of profits to the owners, a few extra arubaito, and that's it. Meanwhile, the banks still will be a mess and corporations will continue to post losses.
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What type of Casino

Postby Blah Pete » Mon Oct 21, 2002 8:11 pm

is Ishihara planning to bulid? Wonder of it will be just another Pachinko like place filled with smoke.
Will they actually try to add some class to it or appeal to the Keibar, boat race, off track betting and Pachinko playing types.
Bet they won`t have free drinks like Vegas...
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Postby cstaylor » Mon Oct 21, 2002 11:50 pm

So, I'm confused... who are the customers supposed to be? If they're foreigners, then they'll have a tough time competing with places like Vegas, but it they're Japanese, what's the difference between these casinos and Pachinko?

I'd put this up with his "Let's tax the banks!" pie-in-the-sky solution to the economy. Wouldn't it be more profitable to seize the assets of the Yakuza?
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Postby American Oyaji » Tue Oct 22, 2002 12:19 am

I foresee problems if this plan is carried out.

This may draw some revenue AWAY from pachinko parlours and those owners may not take that sitting down.

I believe that these casino's would be run by the local goverment where they are located and proceeds would go to that governemts coffers.

Look for the yakuza to try and find a way to profit.

And I agree that they should seize yakuza assests, but unfortunately Japan has a history of letting the rogues of society roam free unless they cross the law. Same as these kids who hole themselves up in their rooms.
See Missing Million for more info.

If it were me, I'd just arrest all of them and threaten to throw them in prision and threaten to lose the key unless they started talking.
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Postby Ketou » Wed Oct 23, 2002 9:16 pm

kamome wrote:My question is, which economy will be helped by bringing in casinos? If they're just for pachinko-like diversion, then it will bring tons of profits to the owners, a few extra arubaito, and that's it. Meanwhile, the banks still will be a mess and corporations will continue to post losses.


My thoughts exactly.

The only ecomonies helped will be those of the people organizing and running the casinos. More money moves from the little man into the coffers of the recession-proof.
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Tax the Yaks

Postby Blah Pete » Wed Oct 23, 2002 10:17 pm

Wouldn't it be more profitable to seize the assets of the Yakuza?


This is better than any ideas that Nagata-Cho has come up with. Would put Japan back in the black overnight.
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And the winner of the 2003 Nobel Prize for economics is...

Postby Blah Pete » Wed Oct 23, 2002 10:21 pm

cstaylor for his radical economic theory that brought Japan out of a 10 year recession in a mere 48 hours...
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Japan casinos very, very badgood

Postby Taro Toporific » Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:50 am

[floatr]Image[/floatr]LDP to seek to legalize casinos
Kyodo, Saturday February 25, 7:48 PM
The ruling Liberal Democratic Party is expected to formulate a basic policy around June to legalize casinos in Japan in an effort to attract more tourists from abroad, lawmakers said Saturday...more...[
-----------------------------------------
JAPANESE ONLINE CASINO CAFE RAIDS

online-casinos.com, Sat. 25-02-2006
Early reports just in indicate that Japanese police in Kyoto, Japan yesterday raided a "online casino cafe" and took two casino players and two staff members into custody...
...seem to use the Big Joy casino brand and gaming facilities, which is allegedly powered by the Playtech company and licensed in the Phillipines....
....Cafe staff apparently told online casino players not to worry about legality since the server was located outside Japan...more...

Refer to the old FG thread:
Tokyo Casino Busted!
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Postby Greji » Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:31 am

Taro Toporific wrote:LDP to seek to legalize casinos
Kyodo, Saturday February 25, 7:48 PM
The ruling Liberal Democratic Party is expected to formulate a basic policy around June to legalize casinos in Japan in an effort to attract more tourists from abroad, lawmakers said Saturday


This is going to face an up-hill battle, as all forms of legal government gambling in Japan are gearing up to make a war out of fighting this proposal to the death.

JAPANESE ONLINE CASINO CAFE RAIDS[/B]
online-casinos.com, Sat. 25-02-2006....Cafe staff apparently told online casino players not to worry about legality since the server was located outside Japan...more...


Most of their "casino" busts have been local yak run games. The yaks don't generally game for the on-line off-shore stuff, because they lack the overall expertise to control it.

Gambling remains illegal in Japan, other that authorized government gambling.
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Postby Mulboyne » Tue Jun 13, 2006 8:18 am

Guardian: Japan prepares to spin the wheel of fortune
...In Japan, MPs are about to attempt an overhaul of the country's strict gambling laws that would pave the way for the construction of a Japanese version of the super-casino. The pro-casino lobby says Japan is losing out to other Asian countries, such as South Korea and China, in the race to secure extra tourist dollars...The group had hoped to table a bill to legalise casinos during the current parliamentary session but last-minute changes and a packed legislative schedule mean they will probably have to wait until next year, Mr Aoki told the Guardian...To pro-gambling MPs, the government's erstwhile opposition to casinos reeks of hypocrisy. Japanese who enjoy a flutter can already bet on several sports..."Japan is already a gambler's paradise," says Masayoshi Oiwane, principal of the Japan Casino School in Tokyo...But critics say that, economic benefits aside, the plans could be disastrous for habitual gamblers and their families. "Japan already has a huge gambling problem and opening casinos would make it easier for at-risk people to get swallowed up by their addiction," says Itta Hoshijima, a social worker in Tokyo...Mr Oiwane said attracting more tourists was only half of the appeal. "The aim isn't just to attract more foreigners but to stop Japanese people from spending huge sums of money overseas in places like South Korea," he said. "Japan is the only country in Asia that bans casinos. It doesn't make sense. Even North Korea has one"...more...
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Postby Greji » Tue Jun 13, 2006 9:50 am

Mulboyne wrote:Guardian: Japan prepares to spin the wheel of fortune


Betfair and a lot of betting exchange people are pushing for this reform, hoping they can ride into Japan on the tails of the casino issue and betting reforms.

I wouldn't say it is impossible, but there will be a lot of resistance, mainly from the government authorized gambling authorities. The biggest hinderance that will be used is the Toto soccer lottery fiasco, that the diet sailed through against many opposition groups and it has been operating in bright red figures since its start. Some diet members already indicating "once burned" when looking at this new reform with the toto still in mind.
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Postby Buraku » Tue Jun 13, 2006 7:03 pm

Blah Pete wrote:is Ishihara planning to bulid? Wonder of it will be just another Pachinko like place filled with smoke.
Will they actually try to add some class to it or appeal to the Keibar, boat race, off track betting and Pachinko playing types.
Bet they won`t have free drinks like Vegas...


its certainly no solution to japan's economic problems
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Opinion of the partly informed

Postby cliffy » Wed Jun 14, 2006 12:52 am

As a Casino worker (Junior level) in a small(ish) City, I have seen two major factors in the finacial flow on effects. First, you NEED outside money, (Tourist, Visitor or whatever), otherwise you kill the local economy thus your market, we are seeing this in a small way after the big damage done by Cyclone Larry and uninformed reporting claiming the whole region was decimated not just a small localised area as was accurate.
Secondly, you have to pander to your local market, admittedly it is high cost with low return but it is a regular income stream for the slow times, 10% of not much is still more than 100% of nothing!
But in my opinion a Casino is a money spinner for the Tax collector but a killer for a weak economy with no outside income stream available.
So, Tourist Casino, YES!
Local only, Doomed to fail!
Disclaimer, this is only my opinion, I believe accurate, but of course it is :)
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Postby Mulboyne » Sat Jun 17, 2006 12:56 am

Online-casinos: DEUTSCHEBANK STUDY SAYS JAPAN THE NEXT FRONTIER
Online gambling companies have been eyeing the Japanese market for some time, and this week the US media was carrying the results of a Deutschebank gaming survey that shows why. Although the survey was targeted on the physical gambling world, the statistics it showcased are of clear interest to online strategic planners. The reports said that Japan could be the gaming industry's next frontier now that many development opportunities around the world are spoken for. With the most slot-machine-like gaming devices of any country in the world, Japan is a huge and growing market. Brian Gordon, a partner in the Las Vegas-based financial consulting company Applied Analysis, said Japan has to be seen as a huge opportunity if only because of the size of the market and turnover in slotlike gaming devices...more...
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Postby Mulboyne » Thu Jul 13, 2006 8:29 pm

Las Vegas Sun: Slot maker headed by Japanese billionaire wins Nevada license
The slot machine maker headed by Japanese billionaire Kazuo Okada was awarded a permanent license to manufacture, distribute and operate gambling devices by Nevada regulators on Wednesday. Aruze Gaming America Inc., a subsidiary of Tokyo-based pachinko machine maker Aruze Corp., won the license at the end of a two-year limited license period in which it had to prove it could respond effectively to inquiries by the Gaming Control Board. "There had been cultural differences, language problems, changes in staff," said Aruze lawyer Bob Faiss. "The board gave a two-year license to give Aruze a chance to show it had corrected all the problems." The license requires Aruze to maintain a bilingual key employee who can act as a liaison between the company and regulators, the board ruled. A unanimous approval by the three-member board puts Aruze one step closer to selling slot machines in the United States, in which it would face competitors like Reno-based International Game Technology and Waukegan, Ill.-based WMS Industries Inc...Okada, listed by Forbes magazine as having a net worth of $1.2 billion with his family, also controls some 24.5 percent of shares in Wynn Resorts Ltd., where he is vice chairman of the board. Aruze slots will be used in Wynn's new casino resort in Macau set to open in September. ...more...
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Postby Mulboyne » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:35 am

Bloomberg: Japan in Talks With Harrah's, Sands for Casinos After 2010
Japan is in talks with global casino operators including Las Vegas Sands Corp. and Harrah's Entertainment Inc. to operate the nation's first casino expected after 2010, the country's gaming adviser said. The government may initially issue two to three casino licenses for gaming resorts that would each cost ``slightly less'' than Las Vegas Sands' $3 billion investment in Singapore, said Toru Mihara, adviser to the governing Liberal Democratic Party's casino study group... Japan's legislative process may be an obstacle as detailed debates take at least a year, and the country has to come up with ways to cope with possible increases in crime linked to the casinos, he said. "We have achieved a certain level of consensus," said Mihara, who will present a draft to lawmakers in 2008 after ironing out the legal framework. "By end-2007, the market will move, including potential investors."...more...
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Postby Greji » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:48 am

Mulboyne wrote:Bloomberg: Japan in Talks With Harrah's, Sands for Casinos After 2010


It will be a bloody fight and they by no way have the claimed consensus that Mihara is espousing. I cannot see a casino getting licensed much less a law allowing for this in the next 20 years, unless the LDP is decisively outed. They have blown it with Lotto and the anti-side is not going to soon let them forget that albatross, everytime they approach the subject of a change in the gaming laws again!
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Postby Captain Japan » Tue Nov 28, 2006 1:12 pm

Police face high odds in trumping illegal casinos in Nagoya
Asahi
NAGOYA--Police cracking down on illegal casinos likely feel they are playing an endless whack-a-mole game. As soon as they hammer down one of the gambling dens, another pops up.

But police are not folding their cards. They plan to further tighten their grip on gambling houses that operate under the guise of game arcades and funnel billions of yen in illegally gained profits to gangster organizations.

In the past 18 months, the police crackdown has forced 28 "casinos" in central Nagoya to close, staunching the stream of funds to the underground world.

But the clean-up operation so far appears to be a temporary solution.

In April 2005, there were 35 casinos operating in Nagoya's bustling entertainment districts of Sakae and Kinsan. Even after the 28 gambling dens were closed by the end of October, there were still 21.

That is because 14 casinos were newly set up....more...
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Postby Taro Toporific » Mon Apr 16, 2007 7:51 am

Casino giants line up as Japan prepares to roll the dice
Yahoo! News Sat Apr 14, 11:42 PM ET
TOKYO (AFP) -
The world's top casino operators are jockeying for a stake in a vast but untapped market as Japan moves closer to an overhaul of its strict gambling laws to lure rich Asian tourists and boost its economy....
...Lawmakers from Japan's ruling Liberal Democratic Party (LDP) are already drawing up proposals to allow a handful of huge Vegas-style casinos, which could open their doors within a few years.
Almost half of the lower house of parliament -- including some opposition lawmakers -- supports the general idea of legalising casinos, said Toru Mihara, adviser to the LDP's casino study group.
"If we can create legal structures within one or two years to come, maybe in 2012 casinos in Japan will start to operate," he told AFP in an interview.
The major US casino operators are already regular visitors to Japan, networking and lobbying behind the scenes to try to secure a lucrative contract in the world's second-largest economy, Mihara said.
"They are totally keen on this potential big market," he added....more...
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Postby Taro Toporific » Mon May 28, 2007 12:10 pm

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Postby dimwit » Mon May 28, 2007 12:39 pm

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Postby james » Mon May 28, 2007 3:30 pm

if people are going to gamble, and they will, it may as well be legalized and carried out in a venue that is regulated.

pachinko sucks and i think its popularity would dwindle quite fast in the face of full-fledged classy casinos, even smaller ones, once people catch on.

i'd also sooner see the proceeds of gambling go to the japanese government than to the fucking yaks (well i guess that's a fine line there) and that asshole in north korea lobbing tae pong missiles into my backyard. that is if by ushering in casinos it would actually be possible to squeeze them out.
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Postby Greji » Mon May 28, 2007 3:39 pm

"There are those that learn by reading. Then a few who learn by observation. The rest have to piss on an electric fence and find out for themselves!"- Will Rogers
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Postby Mulboyne » Wed Jun 20, 2007 7:09 am

More from the pro-casino lobby:

FT: Japan poised for law to allow casinos
Japan's ruling Liberal Democratic party plans to legalise casino gambling next year. Seiko Noda, who heads an LDP study group that is drafting the legislation, said the target was to pass a bill by the end of the next ordinary Diet session in June 2008. The ruling party hopes casinos will spur tourism, help revitalise local economies and increase tax revenues. Opening up Japan to casinos is also likely to provide big opportunities for foreign operators, as few Japanese companies have the expertise necessary to develop the large-scale operations being envisioned. Japan's initiative to deregulate casinos comes as Macao outruns the Las Vegas Strip in casino revenues and Singapore prepares to open its first casino resorts to attract players and stimulate tourism.

Ms Noda said the proposal to open up casinos in Japan was part of a broader initiative to attract more foreigners. She said Japan would study the possibility of charging the local population an entrance fee to discourage visits by lower-income consumers. Under a programme launched by the former prime minister Junichiro Koizumi, the government aims to boost annual foreign visitor numbers to 10m by 2010 from 7.3m last year. This initiative comes as Japan faces a declining population and falling tax revenues. "If there were three Las Vegas-style casinos in Japan, it could bring in Y700bn in tax revenues. At the same time, there would be investment, and employment would increase," Ms Noda said.

In particular, casinos are seen as a way to revitalise local economies, which have not enjoyed the economic recovery seen recently in large urban centres. Leading casino operators, including Las Vegas Sands and Genting of Malaysia, had told the LDP there was "tremendous potential, because Japan could attract interest from north China and Russia, where there has been huge [economic] growth", she said. "There is definitely enough demand for casinos," says Aaron Fisher, analyst at CLSA in Tokyo. Tokyo, in particular, has a large population within a two-hour radius earning a lot of money. "Definitely the returns [could be] huge," he says.

The LDP's plan still faces formidable obstacles, not least the negative image gambling has among the general public. Japan is the only advanced economy where casinos are illegal. "There is a special situation in Japan, which is that there is a strong allergic reaction to gambling," Ms Noda says. Under the current LDP plan, casinos in Japan would be entertainment complexes combining a range of facilities such as theme parks, theatres, shops, restaurants and hotels to dispel gambling's negative image.
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I figure

Postby canman » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:00 am

This law will get passed about the same time that the gov't decides to finally implement daylight savings time.
But in all seriousness does the pachinko industry have that much power that they have been able to quash this for so long. I mean everybody knows that pachinko is a kind of poor man's gambling, so why not just call it that and let people really bet and play games of chance.
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Postby Mulboyne » Wed Jun 20, 2007 9:22 am

canman wrote:But in all seriousness does the pachinko industry have that much power that they have been able to quash this for so long?

The pachinko industry doesn't speak with one voice on this. The parlours aren't too keen on the idea of casinos but the equipment manufacturers are. As Greji has noted elsewhere, there are a number of other parties in opposition, ranging from the existing legal betting industries to consumer protection groups. I'm not certain but I don't think Soka Gakkai is supportive either.
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Postby Mulboyne » Sun Aug 12, 2007 12:10 am

IHT: Wynn and Japanese gambling partner move on Tokyo
Steve Wynn turned to Kazuo Okada when the gambling magnate needed cash to finance his namesake Las Vegas casino in 2000. Now, Okada could be the ace up Wynn's sleeve in the Japanese businessman's home market. The pair want to submit a bid to operate Japanese casinos once the government opens the market, Okada, chairman of Aruze, said in an interview Thursday...If all goes according to plan, Japan may have its first casino open by 2012, according to Toru Mihara, an adviser to the governing Liberal Democratic Party's casino study group...more...

The article doesn't mention that the LDP no longer controls the Upper House. That could change the likelihood of legislation passing.
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Postby Mulboyne » Wed Nov 19, 2008 1:48 pm

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