AP: Foreigner-free Japan hotels want to stay that way
Most Japanese inns and hotels that didn't have foreign guests last year don't want any in the future, according to a government survey released Thursday. While the majority of such establishments do accept foreigners, the survey showed the country's more traditional inns are not as hospitable, even as the government mounts a major campaign to draw more tourists from abroad. Japan's countryside is dotted with thousands of small, old-fashioned lodgings called "ryokans." Many are family run and offer only traditional Japanese food and board, such as raw seafood delicacies, simple straw-mat floors and communal hot spring baths. Some such establishments have barred foreign guests in the past, leading to lawsuits and government fines for discrimination. The survey carried out by the Ministry of Internal Affairs shows that 72 percent of establishments that didn't have foreign customers in the past year don't want any, and the majority are ryokans and hotels with fewer than 30 rooms. Such businesses said they are unable to support foreign languages and that their facilities are not suited to foreigners. While more than 60 percent of the country's inns and hotels hosted foreign guests last year, the results indicate it may be hard to expand this number. Tokyo spends about $35 million per year on its "Visit Japan Campaign," which aims to draw 10 million foreigners to the country for trips and business in the year 2010, up from 8.35 million last year...The government survey was done by mail earlier this year, and 7,068 establishments responded.

Mulboyne wrote:... even as the government mounts a major campaign to draw more tourists from abroad. ... Some such establishments have barred foreign guests in the past, leading to lawsuits and government fines for discrimination. ... Tokyo spends about $35 million per year on its "Visit Japan Campaign," which aims to draw 10 million foreigners to the country for trips and business in the year 2010, up from 8.35 million last year...The government survey was done by mail earlier this year, and 7,068 establishments responded.

If the government was really serious about wanting foreign visitors, then they should stop fingerprinting them like criminals at the border, and should put some minimal anti-discrimination laws and policies. Japanese should treat foreigners and provide them with the same protection, that the Japanese themselves expect when they visit other countries. (Its the golden rule: "Do unto others as you would expect they should do unto you.".)

That being said, the government could print out some English pamphlets for these ryokans and hotel that make it clear that the staff only speak Japanese and all guests must abide by the following rules and customs.

Personally I really enjoy staying in traditional ryokans, and especially love raw seafood and sleeping on tatami floors. I find that if I am flexible, respectful, and courteous, then even as a foreigner with my limited Japanese, I have never had any problems staying at any Japanese ryokans and hotel.

alicia454 wrote:..That being said, the government could print out some English pamphlets for these ryokans and hotel that make it clear that the staff only speak Japanese and all guests must abide by the following rules and customs..

That's the problem, they make the rules up as they go along. I stayed at one place where they had a fit when I put my pillow at the wrong end of the bed, they explained some stupid rule about not sleeping pointing north.

With the exception of Wakkanai, I've not experienced any of these problems... If anything when my 'posse' and I travel around there, we end up being comic relief for the people running the places. ^_^'

For the most part though, people who want to go to these types of places tend to want to experience traditional travel, and will most likely have some clue of what's involved.

But as said... Typical "too hard" sentiment.

alicia454 wrote:If the government was really serious about wanting foreign visitors, then they should stop fingerprinting them like criminals at the border, and should put some minimal anti-discrimination laws and policies. Japanese should treat foreigners and provide them with the same protection, that the Japanese themselves expect when they visit other countries. (Its the golden rule: "Do unto others as you would expect they should do unto you.".)

That being said, the government could print out some English pamphlets for these ryokans and hotel that make it clear that the staff only speak Japanese and all guests must abide by the following rules and customs.

Personally I really enjoy staying in traditional ryokans, and especially love raw seafood and sleeping on tatami floors. I find that if I am flexible, respectful, and courteous, then even as a foreigner with my limited Japanese, I have never had any problems staying at any Japanese ryokans and hotel.

I'm not disagreeing with what you say - because in a perfect world, most of it will apply. However, I think that such ryokans would hate to taint their image with pamphlets in foreign languages, and would feel insulted if told to have them there. Not all - but many, especially up north, if told to have Russian pamphlets, would go off.

As for the government to be serious about tourism, I think it's a catch-22 for them. They don't really want tourists per se, they want tourist dollars, and the expect to get them while maintaining the isolationist culture.

Fingerprinting is going to remain as long as the US keeps doing it. Japan likes to think it's under equal terrorist threat.

Charles wrote:That's the problem, they make the rules up as they go along. I stayed at one place where they had a fit when I put my pillow at the wrong end of the bed, they explained some stupid rule about not sleeping pointing north.

That's pretty funny ... but there is a reason.

The dead were traditionally buried facing north. It's similar to wearing a yukata with the right side on the outside: only the dead do that.

More tradition (and superstition) than rule, of course.

Mulboyne wrote:A Yomiuri report details some of the reasons ryokan gave for not wanting foreign guests:

The real reasons:

They (OK, 'we') stink.
They cannot appreciate our unique culture.
They pee on the floor.

Yokohammer wrote:That's pretty funny ... but there is a reason..

Well of course I'm aware of the superstition, but that's no reason to make it a rule that guests must obey upon penalty of harassment from the innkeeper.

Maybe it just ain't the Ryokans, even the Tourism Minister is on the No Gaijin band wagon:

New tourism minister Nariaki Nakayama wasted no time putting his foot in it. The day after stating that Japanese do not like foreigners and that the country is ethnically homogeneous, Nakayama apologized Friday and retracted his statements.

Keep those stinkin' gaijins out! They smell like butter!:nihonjin:

http://nambufwc.org/2008/09/27/tourism-minister-apologizes-for-gaffes/

I hope Mrs. Bucky still likes me when I get home.

Behan wrote:The real reasons:

They (OK, 'we') stink.
They cannot appreciate our unique culture.
They pee on the floor.

I'm offended by that. I've never pee'd on the floor !
I did a few turds - but never urine. I know where the line is - I won't cross it !

I think the more interesting question is why the government would conduct such a survey and make the results public. The general rule in any government is not to ask questions to which you don't know the answer. So, it's a fair assumption that a branch of government commissioned this survey because they wanted to highlight the fact that there is a fairly large number of ryokan not desperately keen to have foreign guests. The fact that the press gives that spin to their reporting is also supporting evidence.

There are a few reasons I can think of. Firstly, the new Tourism Agency may now create a series of incentives for these places to become more attractive to foreign visitors. This will allow another survey to be conducted later which will show greater enthusiasm all round and success for the Agency. Alternatively, the Ministry of Internal Affairs might be engaged in a bit of arse-covering by publicizing ahead of time some of the obstacles the Agency faces in reaching its tourism targets over the coming years. Another possibility is that the Agency wishes to use the results to get more co-operation from groups like the ryokan association in meeting their targets.

It is well within the government's ability to keep a lot of uncomfortable topics out of the media spotlight so, when they do appear, it is always worth considering what agenda might be behind their disclosure.

Mulboyne:

Couldn't of said it better.

Charles wrote:Well of course I'm aware of the superstition, but that's no reason to make it a rule that guests must obey upon penalty of harassment from the innkeeper.

Belief is a powerful thing.
No doubt the innkeeper was scared crapless that if any guest broke the rule, thus offending the ancestral spirits that guard the inn, that all heck would break loose and he'd have a scene not unlike the latter half of Ghostbusters on his hands, and the inn would descend into a spiral of ill fortune.

Sounds stupid, I know, but some people are really afraid of that stuff and will behave quite irrationally as a result (well, OK, I was exaggerating about the Ghostbusters bit, but you know what I mean).

bolt_krank wrote:I'm not disagreeing with what you say - because in a perfect world, most of it will apply. However, I think that such ryokans would hate to taint their image with pamphlets in foreign languages, and would feel insulted if told to have them there. Not all - but many, especially up north, if told to have Russian pamphlets, would go off.

As for the government to be serious about tourism, I think it's a catch-22 for them. They don't really want tourists per se, they want tourist dollars, and the expect to get them while maintaining the isolationist culture.

Fingerprinting is going to remain as long as the US keeps doing it. Japan likes to think it's under equal terrorist threat.

I agree, bottom-line, it's all about the almighty yen. The Japanese would prefer to keep an isolationist culture for as long as they possibly can, but at the same time alienating foreigners in the bigger picture on all fronts is not helping them any level. The younger generation is slowly changing, but the old timers that hold and wield the power in this country are extremely resistant to change. Many believe that they can maintain and survive on their own without many foreigners coming through Japan. Also, many Japanese believe that "we" are so different from "them" and we can NEVER understand or learn their customs, cultures and way of life(unless you're Dave Spector)this is pure xenophobia. Japanese culture and way of life is unique and therefore, should never change or be modified.

I stayed in plenty of Ryokans, never a problem. People were friendly, never had complaints, never complained. Of course, you want to try to fit in. That is the key, same thing people expect in the states, fit in or you don't have to be here. So ultimately for me, it's not a problem, but I live in Kyushu, not quite sure geographically if that makes a big difference-culturally, but I had some great times at Ryokans, I like the peaceful lifestyle and the food. But I admit things need to change.(Been hearing that word alot lately)

I think it's funny that people get so upset that other people don't want them around. If they don't want me I don't want them so it's mutual.

AssKissinger wrote:I think it's funny that people get so upset that other people don't want them around. If they don't want me I don't want them so it's mutual.

That must happen to you a lot.

Mulboyne wrote:I think the more interesting question is why the government would conduct such a survey and make the results public. ..
There are a few reasons I can think of. Firstly, the new Tourism Agency may now create a series of incentives for these places to become more attractive to foreign visitors. This will allow another survey to be conducted later which will show greater enthusiasm all round and success for the Agency. Alternatively, the Ministry of Internal Affairs might be engaged in a bit of arse-covering ...
...

So cynical, Mulboyne!:p

But ditto what Bolt Rank said. I think you are right.

I've found ryokan extremely welcoming. These places are businesses, and I believe they think (with justification) that foreigners will pass the word on to other foreigners if they have a good time. I consistently get rooms that are clearly above the grade I'm paying for. Or if not, at least I get the largest room, with the nicest view, in the grade. In ryokan that have public dining areas, I'm almost always seated somewhere prominent.

BUT, I don't think I'd be getting this treatment if I couldn't communicate with the staff in Japanese, and if I didn't know many of the customs & norms when you stay in a ryokan. To be honest, I think it's extremely easy for a guest to irritate other guests if they don't know all these norms. In the end I think that's what primarily concerns the management, and I can understand where they're coming from.

It's not at all that foreigners are poorly behaved or don't want to try to fit in. In fact, I think ryokan newbies who make the effort (and outlay the cash) to stay at a ryokan are trying to have what they think is a Japanese experience, and fit in as much as possible. But ryokan customs are, IMHO far from intuitive. It is a huge challenge for a ryokan to communicate the do's and don'ts. Some will make the effort, train staff in foreign languages, translate signs, and do foreign language advertising, and they probably make a good return off this investment. But not all ryokans can make this investment. When communication breaks down, it may be a little stressful for the staff, but more importantly it's likely to stress out the other guests and harm chances of repeat business.

A few weeks ago I was at a western-style hotel in an onsen town. It was run by a large hotel chain, and it had a public bathing area. This hotel went to extremes to welcome English-speaking foreign guests. I've never seen so many bilingual signs in my life (and they were all accurate translations, too!). They made a big effort, but it turned out not to be enough. When I was heading out, fully nude, to the rotenburo, I nearly jumped as I saw the 3 guys walking back inside were wearing speedo swim suits and heading toward the locker room. I quickly retreated and checked the signs, making sure I wasn't accidentally walking toward an outdoor swimming pool (I was right, it was a rotenburo). These guys were still lingering in the locker room when I got back later, and sure enough, they were speaking Chinese. I can almost guarantee that if a Japanese guest had seen these guys in the rotenburo with their swimming trunks, they would have avoided getting in the water themselves, and they also would have complained to management.

I would hope the government goal here is to kick off some kind of project to assist ryokans with getting the skills and resources they need to host foreign guests.

I have stayed in many Ryokans all over Japan and I never had anything but very good service. Don't know what the fuss is all about.

Charles wrote:That must happen to you a lot.

Maybe you could provide me with some congeniality advice.

Jack wrote:I have stayed in many Ryokans all over Japan and I never had anything but very good service. Don't know what the fuss is all about.

Yoy probably just thought they were real ryokans and really they were just onsen resort type places. But anyway, did you fuck the maids?

alicia454 wrote:If the government was really serious about wanting foreign visitors, then they should stop fingerprinting them like criminals at the border

You do know that the U.S. fingerprints most foreigners (they started this before the Japanese) entering the U.S.?

The "fingerprinting is only for criminals" line really doesn't fly in the modern 21st century world.

People working in education, law enforcement, certain parts of government, and finance are fingerprinted as a condition to get in. I'm sure there are even more professions that require it as part of the background check.

And some parents have their children fingerprinted as a safety measure.

I myself have been fingerprinted over three times for various types of jobs.

Fingerprinting is simply a form of identification, like a photo.
It's no longer a scarlet letter reserved for criminals.

AssKissinger wrote:Yoy probably just thought they were real ryokans and really they were just onsen resort type places. But anyway, did you fuck the maids?

No because: 1) I had brough my own gorgeous babes in with me and 2) never found an attractive maid to tempt me.

alicia454 wrote:Yes I know that the US and Britain are also fingerprinting foreigners.

Which foreigners are Britain fingerprinting? Immigration, even at Heathrow, was as quick as anywhere I've been.

alicia454 wrote:Accenture (renamed from Arthur Andersen) which did the falsified books for Enron and Worldcom.

You have no clue what you're talking about.

Mock Cockpit wrote:Which foreigners are Britain fingerprinting? Immigration, even at Heathrow, was as quick as anywhere I've been.

Only those visitors which require visas to Britain are required to be fingerprinted in Britain. If you are from Canada, US, Western Europe (EU), Australia, New Zealand, and other first world nations then you don't require a visa to visit Britain and won't be fingerprinted.

For everyone else visiting Britain, then you will be fingerprinted. Here are some linked to BBC articles about it. I'm sure if you search you can find additional articles on the topic.

All visitors to Britain requiring a visa are now having their fingerprints taken in a bid to control illegal immigration
Fingerprinting snares visa cheats