Even in America I'm an FG

by **Samurai_Jerk** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 5:25 am

So I duck out of work for lunch last week to get some teriyaki to go. On the way back to the office I stop by the conveniece store to get a soda. The Korean lady behind the counter sees me with my take out bag and chopsticks and says, "Oh! Can you use chopsticks!?" I'm so shocked to hear that from someone that's been in the US for more than 20 years that I responded with an unintentionally rude, "Of course." She looked a little hurt by my response so I I felt I had to explain my amazing ability and let her know I had lived in Japan for 3 years.

by **tetsujin gaijin** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:38 am

Classic. Why is it that asians find it so amazing when a non-asian can use chopsticks? It's not like it's hard. Next time you get asked that, I'd ask if they know how to use a fork.

by **Watcher** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:20 am

Whatever... fact is that the majority of people in the State and North America do not know how to use chopsticks... some of them were never even taught the proper etiquette for holding a fork or spoon and still use the childish grab and shovel technique. Someone says "Oh, you can use chopsticks?" just respond with a shrug and a "yeah"*... I mean, it's a conversation starter, right? How about all those Japanese who play lacrosse (and some I've met who play hockey)? To them it may be perfectly normal to be playing those sports in Japan but to us from Canada it's kinda amazing considering how many here in Canada don't play said sports though we are known for them.

* alternative if she's cute... "Make me some dinner and I'll show ya."**
** alternative if she's cute and eyeing you: change dinner for "breakfast".

by **Andocrates** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 9:27 am

tetsujin gaijin wrote:Classic. Why is it that asians find it so amazing when a non-asian can use chopsticks? It's not like it's hard. Next time you get asked that, I'd ask if they know how to use a fork.

Well, OK grab the nearest American, stick a pair of chopsticks in their hand and set a plate of food in front of them. It's really quite funny to watch.

The chinese are the same way. But, somehow I never feel patonized by Chinese.

I remember learning how to use them, and it was quite awhile (maybe I'm slow) before I really mastered it.

You should know that Asians view us in the same way we view asians, as a collective group. You rose above the pack of everyday soda drinkers and you had something to talk about.

by **Taro Toporific** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 10:51 am

Andocrates wrote:Well, OK grab the nearest American, stick a pair of chopsticks in their hand and set a plate of food in front of them. It's really quite funny to watch.

Ya oughta see my Mom with chopsticks <hee, hee> she's a real bumpkin.

As I always explain to Japanese folks, whenever an American claims to never ate chopsticks or used sushi :wink:

that just means they're do inaka-mono.
Sheeee-it. Most Chinese restaurants set out chopsticks by default and sushi is even served ballparks. Hell, the 60 year old cowboys would shit on their boots laughing at anybody asking for a fork to eat the Rocky Mountain Oyster Sashimi.

by **Samurai_Jerk** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:29 pm

I think If I had been in Korea or Japan I wouldn't have been so surprised. But this women owns a convenience store in Seattle in an area full of Asian restaurants and has been here for more than 20 years. You'd think at some point she'd cease to be amazed by whiteys using chopsticks.

by **Andocrates** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:35 pm

Maybe she thought you were retarded?

by **Samurai_Jerk** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 3:46 pm

I wish I had that excuse.

by **Pencilslave** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 6:33 pm

Well, OK grab the nearest American, stick a pair of chopsticks in their hand and set a plate of food in front of them. It's really quite funny to watch.

I remember having trouble trying to use chopsticks when I was a teenager and switching back to a fork, but when I got interested in Japan back around 97, I seemed to be able to learn to use them fairly quickly Now , if you want to talk funny, I got one for you. I eat nachos bell grande with chopsticks! Love it! No muss , no fuss.

by **nigerian_nampa** » Sun Oct 24, 2004 11:59 pm

I used to be a little annoyed by being given forks but no chopsticks at restaurants, but that probably happens only 1 time out of 20.

The one time I got overtly annoyed was when I was eating some gyudon at Yoshinoya, and had already eaten half of it with chopsticks when an old lady working there ran over with a fork for me. I said to her in Japanese "Have I not eaten half of this with chopsticks? Have I dropped something? Where's the food I dropped? I don't see it." Then the whole place was silent and I heard some girl say "Kowai, sono gaijin". :roll:

by **Charles** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:50 am

I'll never quite forget an incident at a classy bar/restaurant in Tokyo. This was at an international hotel, they offered both Western and Japanese cuisine, with a bilingual menu. We were sitting at the counter but decided to order some food. I ordered a Japanese dish, in Japanese, and the waitress looked extremely confused. In a minute or two, she came back with a silver platter, carrying silverware on one side, and cheap wooden breakapart chopsticks on the other side. I said "hashi kudasai" and she looked even more confused. She thrust the platter forward, and I picked up the chopsticks.

by **Mini_B** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 1:58 am

That's it. I'm fed up with the whole 'whitey can't use a chopstick' sterotype. The next person that insults me by handing me a fork will get stabbed in the face with it. OK...I wouldn't actually do that...I'd use the chopsticks instead...one for each eyeball.

by **Mulboyne** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 2:53 am

Mini_B wrote:The next person that insults me by handing me a fork will get stabbed in the face with it.

by **Samurai_Jerk** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 4:48 am

Is it just me or does that FG look like a made man?

by **vince** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 10:10 am

Lately there has been a fad of Japanese claiming that their children (are *soooooo* westernized that they) can't use chopsticks! (although, they learned to read and write thousands of Chinese characters, they never had that opportunity to eat asian food enough to get joozu with chopsticks - takes about an hour - right!).

So, maybe the woman was amazed that you were cluelessly emulating an Asia that has moved *beyond* chopsticks (except for the inaka, where you probably learned that outdated eating style).

by **Taro Toporific** » Mon Oct 25, 2004 11:02 am

vince wrote:Lately there has been a fad of Japanese claiming that their children (are *soooooo* westernized that they) can't use chopsticks! .

That has been the 'party line" of manyl NHK programs extolling the virtues of o-hashi over the years. Sporks aka runcible spoons were banned in school lunch programs about 20-30 years ago because students were deemed "hopelessly westernized" by school silverware.

Sakiware-spoon
(The fork spoon combination)
The most notorious item of cutlery ever to grace the tables of Japanese schools. First introduced in the 1950s, this utensil aimed to combine the best features of spoon and fork, thus saving time and effort for diners and washers alike.
Despite such pragmatism, this 'spork' came in for criticism from the offset. Parents claimed that it encouraged slovenly eating, and that children's dexterity with the chopsticks was suffering. Many also found that the new eating-aid was in fact rather inconvenient and difficult to use.
Finally, after such sustained denunciation, the school boards had no choice but to bow to the pressure and abolish the handy hybrid.
http://www.geocities.jp/allbcnu/

<---Titanium Spork

by **GomiGirl** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 2:44 pm

In Aus we call them Splades

But I don't understand about the lack of knife/fork ability of *some* folks from North America. I have been shocked a few times while watching grown adults try to cut steak in good restaurants. Can somebody explain that to me? I would have been left to starve if I used a knife and fork incorrectly at home. Good table manners are an essential part of growing up in Aus...

*not wanting to generalise at all but I have seen it often enough to be curious.

by **Taro Toporific** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:29 pm

GomiGirl wrote:But I don't understand about the lack of knife/fork ability of *some* folks from North America.
*not wanting to generalise at all but I have seen it often enough to be curious.

Above the table bad manners have no excuse. However, there is a Brit VS American conflict about where your hands should rest when you're not using them during a meal.

Typically (normal) American manners call for the unused hand to be off the table as an extension of the no-elbows on the table rule. Brits seem to want both hands above the table with the unused hand resting on the table edge.

Another problem area is the upsidedown fork use in America is not as common as it is everywhere else in the world. I was laughed out of a Tex-Mex cafe pushing my refried beans around with my fork tines pointing down.

But all FGs can agree that Japanese sprawled ellows on the table is great fun and a lot more relaxin'. :P

by **Watcher** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:50 pm

nigerian_nampa wrote:The one time I got overtly annoyed was when I was eating some gyudon at Yoshinoya, and had already eaten half of it with chopsticks when an old lady working there ran over with a fork for me.

Similar story for a friend of mine as we ate at Bikari Donkey. I was famished and wolfed down my food... he was less so and took his time. They pitied him and brought him a fork figuring it might be an inability to shovel food into ones mouth with chopsticks... he, disgusted, proceeded to finish his meal ambidextrously using both hands and 2 sets of chopsticks. Sure, on the one hand we feel insulted, as if we don't fit in... but are they not just trying to make us, the guest, more comfortable? Why do so many of us have to try to prove our adaptability and feel injured when we aren't iven the chance? Does this attitude extend to everything in Japan or do we enjoy our "uniqueness"?

by **GomiGirl** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 3:52 pm

Well that is the thing I am curious about. Both hands are used for eating - one for the fork and one for the knife with the fork always pointing downwards. The right handed shovel action is for soup only and even then, the spoon is held by the fingers only and not gripped like baton.

But the elbows should never be on the table but arms can be rested on the edge.

I have such a nervous energy problem (perhaps explains the cigarette addiction) so I have to hands on the top of the table or people think that I am "amusing" myself under the table if I have my hands in my lap.

But refried beans can be eaten anyway you like.. I am talking about "proper" situations.

GG (aka Miss Manners)

by **kurohinge1** » Tue Oct 26, 2004 4:38 pm

GomiGirl wrote: ... I have such a nervous energy problem ... so I have to hands on the top of the table or people think that I am "amusing" myself under the table if I have my hands in my lap ...

One of your best, GG !

Taro Toporific wrote:... there is a Brit VS American conflict about where your hands should rest when you're not using them during a meal ...

I thought the accepted practice was for the dominant hand to shovel the good stuff in, while avoiding anything green or not fried, while the non-dominant arm circled the plate to protect the good stuff from predatory siblings.

:wink:

by **cstaylor** » Wed Oct 27, 2004 1:48 am

Watcher wrote:They pitied him and brought him a fork figuring it might be an inability to shovel food into ones mouth with chopsticks... he, disgusted, proceeded to finish his meal ambidextrously using both hands and 2 sets of chopsticks.

So your friend went from tourist to true henna gaijin? Would the proper polite response be, "kekko desu", then ignore them since they are the help and you are the customer.

I've been asked a couple of times when buying an obento if I can use ohashi. I just give them "hai, tsukaimasu" and think to myself, "fucking bumpkin". :wink:

by **Molokidan** » Thu Oct 28, 2004 9:15 pm

I've been asked a couple of times when buying an obento if I can use ohashi. I just give them "hai, tsukaimasu" and think to myself, "fucking bumpkin".

Yeah, because when it comes down to it, it's really not worth it to explain yourself to every single Japanese who asks if you can use a chopstick/offer you a fork -- especially since there's so damn many of them. For all you know, if you could be the first time they've ever even talked to a gaijin in person. Just because they have a hemmorhage worrying about how you are going to set the restaurant on fire if you don't have a fork, it's not your fault. After all this time, I usually just take the fork and thank them, because they're just trying to be nice in their horribly awkward Japanese way.

Then again, this is also a reason to find your own personal conbini to go to daily, get to know the people, and then earn free discounts.

by **GomiGirl** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 2:59 pm

Molokidan wrote: Then again, this is also a reason to find your own personal conbini to go to daily, get to know the people, and then earn free discounts.

Not for the discounts, but I have trained my combini staff not to give me hashi or heat up my bentos (I prefer to use my own hashi at home and nuke them myself.) but also not to give me shopping bags if I have I am buying less than 3 things. I have so many shopping bags and I don't generate that much household rubbish so it is just not environmentally friendly to give out so many plastic bags.. just doing my bit.

by **Watcher** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 3:57 pm

cstaylor wrote:]So your friend went from tourist to true henna gaijin? Would the proper polite response be, "kekko desu", then ignore them since they are the help and you are the customer.

I was thinking the same thing... but my point was about how so many gaijin seem to feel insulted and injured and will go out of there way to prove some form of inclusion... when in fact it is the exclusion that is special and very few places in the world, I now realise, excel at make the exclusion comfortable. For instance, you think Dominoes America is gonna deliver you a pizza if you can't speak English(or Spanish)? You think that the Government is gonna be so quick to help you in Canada if your employer rips you off (we don't have anything as efficient as Hello Work). There are many others.... basically being foreign in Japan is as near a free pass to do whatever and avoid responsibility as I can tell. You just can't get away with most of the stuff we pull there here. Yet, for some reason, we want to feel the inclusion and get insulted when the exclusion, here in the easily learned chop sticks, is thrown in our faces. That's just my opinion.

by **mercutio** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 5:05 pm

by **Maths Dude** » Fri Oct 29, 2004 7:13 pm

Gomi Girl is now my favorite

How many refuse a plastic bag or some 'free' hashi? I used to wash my free hashi and re-use them multiple times. In a wrap-aholic place Japan is, it's good to hear about gaijin setting some examples!

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Even in America I'm an FG

Even in America I'm an FG

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Re: .

take a stand

Re: take a stand

A portmanteau not to be confused with "FOON"

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