So Japan is using DNA testing in rape cases

by **AssKissinger** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 12:58 pm

http://www.washtimes.com/upi-breaking/20041105-101148-8104r.htm

Dag Thompson was arrested on Oct. 15 and charged with entering a woman's house in August and raping her as she slept. Now authorities say that his DNA matches that of a man who raped a woman in 1998, Kyodo News reports.

by **japslapper** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 8:57 pm

I think this must be just for when foreigners are involved. I searched on the internet and found very little use of science in bringing Japanese rapists to justice - more a policy of ignoring them.

There was an FG I sorta knew who porked some chick a few times then changed girl - the original one cried rape when she realised she had lost him!

I guess this is a warning a) avoid strange J-girls and b) record (mpeg) any liasons you have and post them on FG - and we can all be witnesses to the fact it wasn't rape! :twisted:

by **AssKissinger** » Sat Nov 06, 2004 9:25 pm

I think this must be just for when foreigners are involved. I searched on the internet and found very little use of science in bringing Japanese rapists to justice - more a policy of ignoring them.

My impression was them not gathering DNA because it would likely prove they got the wrong guy. I mean being arrested is proof enough in Japan, right? I want them to use DNA testing to exonerate the innocent more than a means of nailing the guilty. DNA can prove you were there but the issue of consent is a lot stickier. If a rape is reported quickly enough I guess it could prove who didn't do it as well. I want them to test DNA and make a more sincere effort to get it right because a false rape accusation is every male FGs worst nightmare.

by **AssKissinger** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 8:44 pm

[SIZE="5"]American Gets 9 Years for Okinawa Rapes
[/SIZE]

A U.S. military civilian employee was sentenced to nine years in prison for two rapes on Okinawa, court officials and media reports said Friday.

Dag A. Thompson, 36, was sentenced for the rapes in 1998 and 2004, said Naha District Court official Tatsuhiko Toguchi. Court officials refused to give further details about Thompson, including his home town.

Japan's Kyodo News said he was a civilian employee working on Kadena Air Base and was arrested in 2004. It said both victims were in their 20s.

U.S. Air Force officials on Kadena were not immediately available for comment.

About 50,000 U.S troops are stationed in Japan under a mutual security treaty. About 20,000 of them are on the island of Okinawa.

by **blackcat** » Fri Mar 24, 2006 11:46 pm

I remeber a case some years ago about a nepalese man I think, that was arrested for the murder of a japanese prositute, If i remember correctly the cops used DNA evidence to get him, but it only proved he had "been a customer" and not killed her, he had no motive, and proof of being well away from the crime when it happened, he was let off, but a high court overuled that verdict with no additional eveidence...he got LIFE!! DNA is good to clear the innocent IF the cops and the legal system arent as corrupt and racist as they sure are here.

by **FG Lurker** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 2:15 pm

blackcat wrote:I remeber a case some years ago about a nepalese man I think, that was arrested for the murder of a japanese prositute, If i remember correctly the cops used DNA evidence to get him, but it only proved he had "been a customer" and not killed her, he had no motive, and proof of being well away from the crime when it happened, he was let off, but a high court overuled that verdict with no additional eveidence...he got LIFE!! DNA is good to clear the innocent IF the cops and the legal system arent as corrupt and racist as they sure are here.

Yeeeeeeah, and we should all believe whatever you spew out along with zero links, references, dates, names, locations...

Racist? It couldn't be that the racist scumbag here isn't Japanese, but you? Naaaah, impossible!

by **Mulboyne** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 7:50 pm

by **blackcat** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:18 pm

" I agree that it would have been better ettiquette for blackcat to at least provide the poor bloke's name if not a link."

true, but I was going on memory and a quick reply in my defence and with the fuckwits around here like FGLurker wouldnt make much difference.

by **FG Lurker** » Mon Mar 27, 2006 11:33 pm

blackcat wrote:true, but I was going on memory and a quick reply in my defence and with the fuckwits around here like FGLurker wouldnt make much difference.

I think you have the fuckwit bit backwards.

You spew so much anti-Japanese bullshit that it is not unreasonable to assume that anything and everything you say is much the same. Japan is far from perfect, but it is not the shithole that people like you often make it out to be.

by **blackcat** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:08 am

proof in the pudding! The story was true so who are the racists now? Me for "spewing" how disgusting it is to do what the police did in that case? and many others,no my friend you have it wrong, I openly criticize any form predjudice anywhere. FACT is this is a FG JAPAN forum, if you only want to hear sunshine and roses about Japan turn on the TV or talk to a Japanese person!

I don't make uninformed claims as you suggested. I have many years experience here and am entitled to my views, I am no racist and in fact hate racist behaviour, therefore japan often comes under my criticism, you only see the surface anyway, I have many Japanese friends, am married to a Japanese, what I hate most lies in media,police,government and educational attitudes. To sterotype me as a Jbasher or whatever is simplistic and something Ishihara and co would do.

" In direct contravention of Japanese law that someone found not guilty cannot be kept in detention, Govinda was locked up again."

they are the things you should be upset about, not my posts.

by **AssKissinger** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:24 am

Right on and fight on blackcat!

by **Greji** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 11:55 am

blackcat wrote:proof in the pudding! The story was true so who are the racists now? Me for "spewing" how disgusting it is to do what the police did in that case?
-snip-
" In direct contravention of Japanese law that someone found not guilty cannot be kept in detention, Govinda was locked up again."

This is the point Nekko. What do you base your post on? What I can read through the lines of this case leaves it vague at best. As Mulboyne indicated, Govinda was locked up because he was an illegal. An overstayer. That is not in direct contravention of the laws of any country. The incarceration had nothing to do to with the murder case. He was to be deported until the appeal of the murder case was overturned. The next question was that why was his case overturned in appeal? I don't think any of us could form a proper opinion without knowing the full text of the case as presented. He was represented by lawyers and the law at the appeal level is quite procedually set. It is also transparent, so what would lead to the reversal was in the merits of the case or its procedural conduct. I do not think we could be able to form an exacting opinion without seeing the case in more detail. Garbage that is thrown up on the web in part or in opinionated blasts by Japan bashers provides little to understand what actually transpired. Even the friends of Govinda are using these same posts without deeper reference.

If you have any further information or insight, you should use this, other than referring to posts by people who are just posting partial or inflamatory inaccurate data and/or who have been proven wrong before.
:cool:

by **FG Lurker** » Tue Mar 28, 2006 12:46 pm

Thank you gboothe, that was very well put.

blackcat:

As far as the quality of the criminal justice system goes (not including the prisons) I don't think Japan is all that different from countries in North America or Europe. There are good cops and bad cops, good judges and bad ones, good prosecutors/lawyers and bad ones.

Do foreigners get an especially rough time in Japan, more so than in (for example) the US or UK? I don't think so. There are cases in both countries where people have been arrested/beaten/killed by police just because they looked foreign. Want some examples?

How about Amadou Diallo, the unarmed Guinean who was shot 19 times by the NYPD when he reached for his wallet. The cops involved? Aquitted. Here is another one, more recent and less well covered in the news, at least internationally.

Lets go have a look at the UK. Jean Charles de Menezes, a Brazilian who was shot no fewer than seven times in the head! You see, he looked Muslim, so the cops thought he was a suicide bomber.

These examples don't make the situation in Japan any better, but Japan is certainly not unique in that is has (some) bad cops and judges. Lots of improvement needed everywhere.

by **blackcat** » Wed Mar 29, 2006 10:17 pm

I agree there are other countries this happens in, NEVER said otherwise! Its not really that relevant because this is a forum on Japan.

"As far as the quality of the criminal justice system goes (not including the prisons) I don't think Japan is all that different from countries in North America or Europe."

thats your opinion, where are your facts other than a few examples? something i was accused of doing, not providing enough info!

Japan has the lowest refugee acceptance of any of the developed world, also a poor human rights record of detainees, and a large scale human trafficking problem, watch the news who do you think gets blamed for that? FGS thats who!

The difference with Japan and many other nations is the local don't have a clue whats going on as the negatives of their society.

THATS THE BIG DIFFERENCE

The Japanese Lawyer for Govinda said "this would never happen to a japanese man, on such scant evidence he would never have been convicted, and the case being overturned with no additional evidence is UNHEARD OF"

have you ever thought for a second this man might be not guilty? its the job of the law to PROVE he commit the crime, there was clear doubt about that!

as far as "japan bashers" its denialist defence against often genuine complaints about japan, the term was coined by an American politician, so time will tell if a japanese politician will be as fair and open-minded and complain about "china-bashing" ?!
no other country uses this piss weak defence when faced with the problems of their country.

some bad cops? I had a friend whos was arm cut to pieces in broad daylight by a japanese man, cops knew who he was, never arrested him, then couldnt find him!
the victim then had to listen to his students say the attacked "he must have been korean, he COULDNT have been japanese"

sorry whether you like it not, that is a common attitude here.

Japanese denial syndrome

by **FG Lurker** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:35 am

It's a never ending discussion, one that I don't have time for.

by **AssKissinger** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:46 am

FG Lurker wrote:It's a never ending discussion, one that I don't have time for.

Make time motherfucker!

by **FG Lurker** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 11:41 am

AssKissinger wrote:Make time motherfucker!

Time is limited. I'd sooner spend it either:

a) making money while in Osaka
b) relaxing enjoying the view while in Okayama (see avatar photo)

A few gaijin bitching on FG are not going to change Japan. Japanese like Japan mostly the way it is. We can choose to:

a) accept it and make the best of it
b) try to change it and make our own lives miserable/stressful
c) leave and go somewhere that suits us better

AK, you chose to leave, and I respect you for it. I like it here so I stay. Blackcat seems to hate it but doesn't do anything to fix his own situation. I have a difficult time respecting that.

by **Greji** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 12:06 pm

blackcat wrote:Japan has the lowest refugee acceptance of any of the developed world, also a poor human rights record of detainees, and a large scale human trafficking problem, watch the news who do you think gets blamed for that? FGS thats who!

Refugee acceptance is a problem, but it has nothing to do with the criminal system. As for FGs getting the blame, that is done in the MSM of Japan and where it is a problem for that line of thinking, they're not unlike the MSM of any other country. News is better read if you have some hint of scandal or other angle to present. FGs provide that for them. It makes better reading and sells more copy to write about the loony Chinese woman killing kindergarden students than the same thing done by a J-person, which actually happens too often. It's an unfortunate part of being an FG. We have to suffer by the actions of other FGs doing stupid shit and making the sensational news stories. This comes a lot because some FGs will do things in an enviornment like Japan, they would never think about doing in their own home town because of their false sense of security that no one could possibly know them or the J-cops were incompetent and would never catch them. As a result, they go down the tubes and the MSM has a feeding frenzy as the rest of us FGs get the blame.

The Japanese Lawyer for Govinda said "this would never happen to a japanese man, on such scant evidence he would never have been convicted, and the case being overturned with no additional evidence is UNHEARD OF"

Every losing lawyer will say something like that. It has nothing to do with the merits of the case. What would you expect him to say? "I did my best and they still gave him life". Not a great ad for his future services!

have you ever thought for a second this man might be not guilty? its the job of the law to PROVE he commit the crime, there was clear doubt about that!

That's an unfair, if not stupid statement. You're not teaching eikawa to 1st graders here! Every FG who has any knowledge about this case has wondered about that. The point others, myself included, were making was about the merits of the case. Fact: there was enough presented to convict him in the eyes of the appelate court, even though he was acquitted at the lower level.

Have you read the case? Can you state the merits of the prosecution's case versus the defense? I have not read it althought I followed it in the press and on the web. That of course is an entirely different prospective than what is actually presented in the court room. Some of the points that "seem to be" accepted by both sides is that Govinda had in fact had sex with the deceased on several occasions. The condom found in the apartment with the DNA was his. He had been at the apartment, supposedly "looking for her" prior to her murder, possibly on the same day or night. She alledgedly had previously indicated that she wished to sever contact ? with him. There were other points that were given at the time that I don't recall, but there is enough to indicate a pretty good prima facie case against him. This is just from the mutually agreed points on both sides that was published and obviously not enought to convict, but that is where the court record comes in. I haven't read it so I don't know. Did they have enough other evidence to convict him? If you've read the case, please enlighten us! Otherwise, it has all the earmarks of using the fact that he is just a FG being persecuted as the only defense. I do not take the rantings put out on the web as acceptable proof of anything. If they have the proof that he is innocent why is it not being presented by this "shocked" lawyer? Japan loves retrials and last second reprieves and with an FG it would be a great news scoop. He still has legal avenues available, yet it would appear that all of this "indicated evidence" of innocence is not being presented. Why might that be? You could be right and he is being railroaded and if so I would hope he could be exonerated, but it sure don't look like it.

some bad cops? I had a friend whos was arm cut to pieces in broad daylight by a japanese man, cops knew who he was, never arrested him, then couldnt find him!

However, the point is that these are the extreme as compared to everyday occurances. How many times have you been pulled in and beaten by the Japanese police, or been unable to get them to arrest a known perp? J-police get huge perks and atta-boys for major violations and if your friend had his arm "cut to pieces", I must assume that was with a knife or some weapon of more than a couple of inches (it is only about 3-4 inches as the legal limit before a cutting insturment is classed as a violation). This would make it a violation of the Swords and Firearms Law which the apprehension of the perp would bring not only the patrolman, but all his superiors a hugh atta-boy and rewards abound from headquarters whether or not the victim was an FG. So I would doubt the part of the claim that the police knew who the perp was and would not take him down. At a bare minimum, if they knew him, he would have had to flown the coop for them not to get him. But this is only supposition on what little you posted about the deed.

the victim then had to listen to his students say the attacked "he must have been korean, he COULDNT have been japanese"
sorry whether you like it not, that is a common attitude here.
Japanese denial syndrome

You're probably right on there, the Koreans are pretty handy for being the naughty step-child of choice by the J-side.
:cool:

by **AssKissinger** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:34 pm

AK, you chose to leave, and I respect you for it. I like it here so I stay. Blackcat seems to hate it but doesn't do anything to fix his own situation. I have a difficult time respecting that.

I might come back, for good this time. For the record, in my own case, I love Japan just as much as I hate it, and my posts, overall, reflect that. America is fucked worse so what can you do? I like blackcat's style though. I don't think he hates Japan, I just think he likes to use this forum to express his views about the things that trouble him. As a long term gaijin, I'd say he damn well has the right.

You mentioned the view before. Neo told us how tall he is several times as well. I can see for a long distance when I stand on stilts.

by **FG Lurker** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 1:48 pm

AssKissinger wrote:I might come back, for good this time. For the record, in my own case, I love Japan just as much as I hate it, and my posts, overall, reflect that. America is fucked worse so what can you do?

Japan was driving you insane, you seemed to be on the verge of going postal just before you left.

AssKissinger wrote:I like blackcat's style though. I don't think he hates Japan, I just think he likes to use this forum to express his views about the things that trouble him. As a long term gaijin, I'd say he damn well has the right.

It's a free country (heh, in theory!) so of course he has the right. I don't wish to silence him, I just feel that being so negative is mostly a waste of time and energy.

AssKissinger wrote:You mentioned the view before.

I like my view.

Now I want a boat though... Maybe next year.

AssKissinger wrote:Neo told us how tall he is several times as well. I can see for a long distance when I stand on stilts.

I doubt I could stand on stilts. Can you juggle while stilt walking?

by **blackcat** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 10:56 pm

" News is better read if you have some hint of scandal or other angle to present. FGs provide that for them"

sorry FGs dont really provide it for them, the J media blow it all out of proportion, many japanese worry about FG crime more than japanese crime which accounts for about 90+% due to this racist reporting, they also often supress or fail to mention the nationality of FG victims, people like Ishihara are proof in the pudding as they are widely supported.
the "öh this happens everywhere" is a cop-out, no pun intended.

"enough to indicate a pretty good prima facie case against him"
yes but not enough to convict him, as the first court ruled, the high court for that to be overturned more fresh evidence would be needed. they had none.

"Refugee acceptance is a problem, but it has nothing to do with the criminal system."

perhaps but this policy also shows how xenophobic japans policies are, the second richest nation on earth with a low pop. growth accept literally 1000`s % less than other nations far poorer.

" I don't think he hates Japan, I just think he likes to use this forum to express his views about the things that trouble him."

thanks, thats the way it is.

by **AssKissinger** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 11:30 am

blackcat wrote:I don't think he hates Japan, I just think he likes to use this forum to express his views about the things that trouble him."

thanks, thats the way it is.

You're welcome, mate.

Japan was driving you insane, you seemed to be on the verge of going postal just before you left.

That ain't a drive it's a putt. I did have a couple freak-outs but still I do, and always have, love Japan. And hate Japan. It's a cliche but that's how it is.

by **Greji** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 1:29 pm

AssKissinger wrote: I do, and always have, love Japan. And hate Japan. It's a cliche but that's how it is.

Hey AK, it may be a cliche, but if this feeling didn't exist in all of us, this board wouldn't exist!
:cool:

by **blackcat** » Sat Apr 01, 2006 10:57 am

yes japan is a love/hate thing for many FGs me included.

by **Mulboyne** » Mon Apr 10, 2006 4:03 pm

MDN: Man handed 13 years for murder after court accepts DNA evidence

A man accused of stabbing a 56-year-old driver and leaving him to die on a road in Tokyo was sentenced to 13 years' imprisonment by the Tokyo District Court on Monday, after he was found guilty based on DNA evidence...During the trial, Miki had claimed that he was innocent, saying that the DNA evaluation was inaccurate, but the court rejected his claims...Miki was convicted of stabbing Shirasaki in the chest and back after getting into an argument with him in Adachi-ku on Nov. 11, 1990. He left Shirasaki in critical condition on the road, where he was hit by a car and died, according to the ruling. Blood matching Miki's DNA was found on the knife.

by **Mulboyne** » Sat Jul 29, 2006 11:33 pm

AssKissinger wrote:[SIZE="5"]American Gets 9 Years for Okinawa Rapes[/SIZE]
A U.S. military civilian employee was sentenced to nine years in prison for two rapes on Okinawa, court officials and media reports said Friday. Dag A. Thompson, 36, was sentenced for the rapes in 1998 and 2004, said Naha District Court official Tatsuhiko Toguchi. Court officials refused to give further details about Thompson, including his home town.

Stars and Stripes: Appeal of Thompson's rape conviction is denied by Japanese court

NAHA, Okinawa - A Japanese court Thursday dismissed an appeal of Dag Allen Thompson's conviction in March on two counts each of rape and housebreaking...Samples of Thompson's DNA linked him to both crimes. In appealing the Naha General District Court's March conviction, his attorney argued there was no proof the Naha case victim had been raped and that samples of semen found at the crime scenes were tainted. The semen sample used from the Chatan crime scene came from a bedsheet the woman provided police. Defense Attorney Toshimitsu Takaesu had argued that the woman actually was the sister of the true victim and assumed the victim's role to save her sibling's reputation. She testified she was asleep in her sister's bed when she was attacked by Thompson, whom she later identified as her assailant. Takaesu also argued that Thompson was coerced into signing a statement saying he'd barged into the woman's home when drunk and ejaculated on her sheets but did not rape her.

"The defendant contended that the samples that were presented as evidence in [the] Naha case were, in fact, samples taken from the scene in [the] Chatan case. This court found that it was impossible to fabricate samples from [the] Chatan case to use them `as evidence for Naha case," said Chief Judge Masaaki Kobayashi, reading from the decision reached by the three-judge Naha Branch of the Fukuoka High Court.

by **Taro Toporific** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 1:09 pm

blackcat wrote: DNA is good to clear the innocent IF the cops and the legal system arent as corrupt and racist as they sure are here.

DNA database identifies suspects in 610 criminal cases
Crisscross, Thursday, September 21, 2006 at 10:30 EDT
TOKYO --A DNA database that stores biological evidence left at crime scenes or collected from suspects has helped identify suspects in 610 criminal cases in the past year since it came into operation last September, the National Police Agency said Thursday.
As of the end of August, the database stored DNA samples from 4,190 known suspects that have been collected during investigations and 3,652 DNA samples left by unknown suspects at scenes of unsolved crimes...more...

by **amdg** » Thu Sep 21, 2006 7:15 pm

I wonder how that little (doomed to fail) project to use DNA evidence to determine whether a suspect is a foreigner or not is going... :rofl:

(I couldn’t find the link)

In any case, if the J-researchers are going ahead with it, it can only spell bad news for foreigners in Japan. That’s because DNA evidence categorically cannot be used to show that a suspect is Japanese. On the other hand, the reverse is possible, i.e., it can conceivably show that there is a 70% chance that the suspect is African or Caucasian etc.

by **Iraira** » Fri Sep 22, 2006 2:43 am

There are many unanswered questions regarding many aspects of forensic DNA being applicable in capital cases. Statistics, collection procedures, testing procedures, database creation, and population substructure issues.

For the masochistic here are some links:

http://fpdfls2.home.netcom.com/Burt_Bib ... 20Mueller'

http://www.mccombs.utexas.edu/faculty/j ... 20Mueller'

http://www.law.com/regionals/ca/opinions/jul/a078462.shtml

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So Japan is using DNA testing in rape cases

So Japan is using DNA testing in rape cases

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