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Samurai_Jerk wrote:Whether they're fluent in Japanese or not what's interesting about a lot of the guys who do spend most of their time in an FG bubble is they also claim to love being in Japan.
Samurai_Jerk wrote:Whether they're fluent in Japanese or not what's interesting about a lot of the guys who do spend most of their time in an FG bubble is they also claim to love being in Japan.
Samurai_Jerk wrote:the bliss of ignorance that goes away once they actually understand what's being said. Meetings at work were definitely a lot more interesting when I couldn't understand anyone.
Grumpy Gramps wrote:Maybe after enough years here, you just stop trying to integrate further for lack of any practical use. If, in a restaurant, the waiter asks gaijin me, if I'd like a fork, I'd probably say "yes". Not because I don't know how to use chop sticks, I just think that a fork works better for me and I don't feel that I have to prove anything to anyone.
Samurai_Jerk wrote:I noticed something interesting among my Anglophone friends in Tokyo. The guys I know who are most fluent in Japanese are some of the least likely to have Japanese friends or hang out at Japanese bars and restaurants. And if you do get them into an izakaya they order fries, karaage, and pizza. I don't think it's a general trend but I'm starting to theorize that some people who become truly fluent in the language subconsciously do everything else they can to not otherwise go native. Maybe I need to go to grad school and look into this more deeply.
havill wrote:Hmm. Samurai_Jerk makes a good point. This board is a lot like ordering fries, karaage, and pizza at the izakaya and hanging out only with English speakers.
Never thought of it that way. Now I know what I have to do.
Bye!
havill wrote:Hmm. Samurai_Jerk makes a good point. This board is a lot like ordering fries, karaage, and pizza at the izakaya and hanging out only with English speakers.
Never thought of it that way. Now I know what I have to do.
Bye!
Samurai_Jerk wrote:I was going to add more qualifications to my original post to address the things you guys have brought up but I decided to keep it short. I just used food as an easy throwaway example and I'm not talking about the guys whose lives are 90% Japanese and use an occasional night out with the boys to escape that.
Samurai_Jerk wrote:I noticed something interesting among my Anglophone friends in Tokyo. The guys I know who are most fluent in Japanese are some of the least likely to have Japanese friends or hang out at Japanese bars and restaurants. And if you do get them into an izakaya they order fries, karaage, and pizza. I don't think it's a general trend but I'm starting to theorize that some people who become truly fluent in the language subconsciously do everything else they can to not otherwise go native. Maybe I need to go to grad school and look into this more deeply.
Yokohammer wrote:
BTW, looks like Havill has even deleted his avatar ... weird.
Yokohammer wrote:Perhaps that is because guys who become very fluent gain more insight into the way the country and its collective conscience actually work, and realize that a full and satisfying assimilation would not only be almost impossible, because that requires complete acceptance on both side as Russell noted, but that making a full transition would be disadvantageous as well. Economically, socially, etc. I don't see anything wrong with that either.
matsuki wrote:Yokohammer wrote:Perhaps that is because guys who become very fluent gain more insight into the way the country and its collective conscience actually work, and realize that a full and satisfying assimilation would not only be almost impossible, because that requires complete acceptance on both side as Russell noted, but that making a full transition would be disadvantageous as well. Economically, socially, etc. I don't see anything wrong with that either.
Pretty good way of putting it. Many of the FG I know who work for larger companies have said the same "I enjoy working/living in Japan but I'm sure I would enjoy it a lot less if I was Japanese."
Salty wrote:I`d be interested in knowing what it is that FGers think `being Japanese` means and by extension what there is to be afraid of. I certainly see a very few legal differences – different passport, no ARC, voting, but few other differences. IMO there is as much variation in views, tastes in food, etc. – within Japanese, as there is in the foreign community. So is it a personal feeling of possibly not fitting in, or maybe a self-consciousness over looking different, or an expectation that they might lose some special position or privilege, or exactly what?
yanpa wrote:Is there some kind of official chart detailing the relationship between types of food consumed in an izakaya and fear of "turning Japanese" or "going native" or whatever that means?
dimwit wrote:yanpa wrote:Is there some kind of official chart detailing the relationship between types of food consumed in an izakaya and fear of "turning Japanese" or "going native" or whatever that means?
All I know is that if you start eating dried squid, you might as well go out and buy a pair of getas.
Salty wrote:I`d be interested in knowing what it is that FGers think `being Japanese` means and by extension what there is to be afraid of. I certainly see a very few legal differences – different passport, no ARC, voting, but few other differences. IMO there is as much variation in views, tastes in food, etc. – within Japanese, as there is in the foreign community. So is it a personal feeling of possibly not fitting in, or maybe a self-consciousness over looking different, or an expectation that they might lose some special position or privilege, or exactly what?
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