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Taro Toporific wrote:wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_nuclear_weapon_program
Coligny wrote:Taro Toporific wrote:wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_nuclear_weapon_program
Great bedtime story... If you are not planning to sleep anytime soon...
Taro Toporific wrote:Coligny wrote:Taro Toporific wrote:wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_nuclear_weapon_program
Great bedtime story... If you are not planning to sleep anytime soon...
For the past 10 years Japan has buying and stockpiling plutonium even though it’s against their constitution to have or use atomic weapons. Two years ago, Japan abandoned its fast-breeder nuclear reactor program, which their only excuse for wanting so much plutonium. Now, Japan has been caught hiding bomb plutonium from the IAEA, hmmmm.
Taro Toporific wrote:Coligny wrote:Taro Toporific wrote:wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_nuclear_weapon_program
Great bedtime story... If you are not planning to sleep anytime soon...
For the past 10 years Japan has buying and stockpiling plutonium even though it’s against their constitution to have or use atomic weapons. Two years ago, Japan abandoned its fast-breeder nuclear reactor program, which their only excuse for wanting so much plutonium. Now, Japan has been caught hiding bomb plutonium from the IAEA, hmmmm.
Isle of View wrote:Japan would be stupid to not have a secret nuclear weapons program.
Coligny wrote:Isle of View wrote:Japan would be stupid to not have a secret nuclear weapons program.
Care to detail your brainfart ?
Because mixing a pacifist constitution with a secret nukular program is the textbook method to have UN sanctionned preemptive strike against your installations. Or more realistically, up shitcreek without a paddle from a diplomatic standpoint...
Tsuru wrote:
As long as China and Russia have them, Japan would be stupid not to have them. Actually, I'm actually pretty sure they already do... and with their space program they have the means to deliver them.
Tsuru wrote:Ask the Ukrainians how they feel these days about doing away with their own deterrent.
Tsuru wrote:[font=][/font]Why do you think Iran wants them so badly?
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Tsuru wrote:As long as China and Russia have them, Japan would be stupid not to have them. Actually, I'm actually pretty sure they already do... and with their space program they have the means to deliver them.
kurogane wrote:Didn't they even let The French have a bomb???
Coligny wrote:
Joking right ? ...
Coligny wrote:Tsuru wrote:Ask the Ukrainians how they feel these days about doing away with their own deterrent.
They had Nato as a deterrent, which did'nt work either. Something make you think that having few old Russian nukes would have spared them ? Certainly unusable anyway since you can bet they had suicide switch still wired to Moscow. (Remember the argentinian exocet missiles that Tatchers got the suicide codes from Mitterrand by threatening to go nuclear over the Falklands ?) Ukrainian nukes were dangerous as dirty bomb materials, not as strategic weapons. Like Iraqis Mig 25 the american found burried in the desert and claimed they were hidden weapon from Hussein ready to be used. While the picture showed planes litterally dumped in tombs without a single protection engines and cockpit so filled with dirty sand that they wouldn't even have been salvageable as museum display.Tsuru wrote:[font=][/font]Why do you think Iran wants them so badly?
.
To make Jerusalem think twice. It's local sandbox quarrels.
Israel is a cornered cat state. Surrounded by countries wishing its death, there is not much surprise to the fact they'd do everything to defend themselves. The more weapon they have, the less they have chances to be attacked.
Japan with a supposedly pacifist constitution... Is the opposite. The more weapon... The more uselessly belligerent they appears, with a really bad track record backing them.
With nukes, they make any first strike against them justifiable and understandable. For the same reasons, had Powell's claims to the UN be true, it was making sense to invade Iraq and hunt Saddam Hussein.Tsuru wrote:As long as China and Russia have them, Japan would be stupid not to have them. Actually, I'm actually pretty sure they already do... and with their space program they have the means to deliver them.
Until few years ago, China didn't give a flying fuck of Japan, the senkakus are not a patriotic claim for great justice, but just money grab for fishing and oil exploration rights. Not exactly predictable or useable as justification for a nuke program long in the making. As for the Russians, they hold onto the kuriles to piss of Japan. Not as an avant post for any kind of invasion plan. So, again... Nukes against Russia makes no sense.
I'm pretty sure you don't use the same tech for space launch and strategic missiles... Where the re-entry/aiming part is quite a big deal. Even the launch phase must be different or all those Typhoon boomers would have been converted for commercial space launch instead of being scraped. And let's not get too enthusiastic at their commercial launch success rate either... There is a reason why France and Russia are the market players here...
Tsuru wrote:You seem to attach a lot of value to pacifist ideals and law. Commendable, but not really something I could get behind anymore these days. We can argue about the fine details (details you and I really know nothing about) until we're blue in the face but the fact of the matter is, Japan is at the very least a latent nuclear power and very probably an actual nuclear power. And while I don't live in the country myself, half of my family does and as far as I'm concerned Japan is very welcome to having nuclear weapons to guard its sovereignty. And something tells me within the next 10-20 years you will too, if you don't secretly think so already.
As far as pacifism goes, it amounts to absolutely nothing when you have aggressive states on your doorstep, ready to move in and take your cheese with force. Even in the EU we're now slowly waking up from our pacifist stupor. It was nice while it lasted, but as we speak NATO is sending its forces east to keep Russia in check once more. I hate the inefficiency and wastefulness of the western military as much as anyone else who has had to deal with them, but I thank my lucky stars every day that I was born on this side of the fence.
(And if you go ad-hominem with me on the last sentence you lose automatically)
Coligny wrote:EU pacifism ? Please where ? The Eurocorps ? The Balkans ? France in centrafrica ? Hell we even did nukes live test up untill the mid 90' when the computer simulations were started to be used to reduce testing and development cost. Where the fuck do you see pacifism ? The Turcs and Greece ?
Oh no... next thing you're going to tell us is that it did absolutely nothing to keep The Hun out of LDF.Coligny wrote:Not so fast...
http://europa.eu/scadplus/constitution/ ... ves_en.htm there is a notion of promoting peace added in the 'objective list' together with 'fighting poverty', 'free and fair trade' and 'solidarity amongst people' ...
Remember that the EU is an evolution of the post WWII CECA, which is all about trade and really little about nations. Plus you can't compare the constitution of something like the EU with the constitution of a *real* country. I don't see where your point try to be... A young tiger of paper constitution do not reflect the past of the group of countries it's supposed to link... Promotion of peace don't mean absolute pacifism if it don't forbid the right to have an army. Which is nowhere written in the european constitution.
All of this being further and further away from the topic at hand: a Japan with nuke have much more chances to be bitchslapped hard than a non nuke japan.
Coligny wrote:Isle of View wrote:Japan would be stupid to not have a secret nuclear weapons program.
Care to detail your brainfart ?
Coligny wrote:Because mixing a pacifist constitution with a secret nukular program is the textbook method to have UN sanctionned preemptive strike against your installations. Or more realistically, up shitcreek without a paddle from a diplomatic standpoint...
Isle of View wrote:Coligny wrote:Isle of View wrote:Japan would be stupid to not have a secret nuclear weapons program.
Care to detail your brainfart ?
Not worth the time in your case: an ad hominem bot.
dimwit wrote:Look, back in the late 1950's Kishi talked about Japan going nuclear and given the transparency of the time I would be very surprised if they hadn't. Today, on the other hand, I am not so sure that keeping nukes a secret would be possible given the level of public opposition to them.
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