Death & Taxes

[Wage Slave]

Well you can't say say there are no costs of ownership even if you park the thing in a garage. That garage space costs money - in property tax if nothing else.

It's stupid to say you don't own something just because you have to pay to keep it. If you control it, decide when it's sold and get the money when it is sold you own it and it's as simple as that.

rent is rent
tax is tax

They are different.

[Wage Slave]

WS... That's quite a stupid comparison...

I can collect as many cars in my bunker without paying any fee as long as I don't use them on public roads. I cann even drive them on track days or in my field if I want.
Property taxe if you are the owner just mean you have one less leach to pay to keep your stuff.
And if you have to pay to keep sumthing, it's not yours. Ask any sugar daddy about that issue.

And you can sell the car after a week for double your purchase price, no one cares....

No one cares if you sell property for a higher price. If you sell your car for double the price that is much harder for the tax authorities to detect but it isn't invisible.

And sugar daddies clearly rent. They don't buy. Well, these days unfortunately.

[Coligny]

Even Russian mail order brides ?

[Wage Slave]

Even Russian mail order brides ?

Unfortunately yes. Whatever Natasha told you in that email she sent.

BTW, I are you sure that property tax is just leaching off someone's ownership of a property. After all, the property only has value because the koreans/russkies/australians can't come and seize the country or homeless people can't just move onto it or a businessman can't build a Chinese fireworks factory next to it and so on. Shouldn't the owner contribute something for all that defense and policing? Without it the property wouldn't be worth anything - I hear you can pick up land in Somalia for peanuts these days.

[chibaka]

Property tax pays for local services does it not? Capital gains is pure thievery. With house prices here heading in the downward direction, it's not something I'm worried about.

[Wage Slave]

Property tax pays for local services does it not? Capital gains is pure thievery. With house prices here heading in the downward direction, it's not something I'm worried about.

It varies country by country and by type of property. I'm not sure about here - In the UK council tax is not really a tax on property cos Margaret abolished that. Business rates go to central government. Here I'm not sure - I think you may well be right though - It's collected by local government. But really that just means central government doesn't have to give them the money so it's available for other things.

Anyway, the property is only worth good money because there are local services. Education, rubbish collection, street lighting etc etc ...

All taxes are pure thievery really. That's why the govt keeps a strict monopoly on it. But yes, you are right. The debate is all about what can be collected as cheaply and reliably as possible, what is more or less related to ability to pay and what things you want to encourage or discourage.

Do we have to pay capital gains tax on your main residence in Japan? You don't in the UK. Anyway fat chance for most anyway.

[chibaka]

Do we have to pay capital gains tax on your main residence in Japan? You don't in the UK. Anyway fat chance for most anyway.

I think theoretically here, there maybe capital gains, not much chance of that though. UK has no capital gains tax on your main property, if you are fortunate enough to have a second house, that would be taxed.

[Wage Slave]

Do we have to pay capital gains tax on your main residence in Japan? You don't in the UK. Anyway fat chance for most anyway.

I think theoretically here, there maybe capital gains, not much chance of that though. UK has no capital gains tax on your main property, if you are fortunate enough to have a second house, that would be taxed.

Yes, or the capital gain will be when it is sold. Been there (buy to let) and done that and I wasn't too upset because I had made a good whack. These days it is a shed load of money. Especially in London.

[wagyl]

I actually have a problem with property tax since it basically means there is no true ownership by individuals

I'm not with you. How's that?

If you have to pay taxes to keep your property, you don't own it. You're just renting it.

If we don't pay income tax our wages can be garnished.

I suppose that means that we are not truly paid for the work we do. We are all bound by the chains of slavery.

[Wage Slave]

Regarding Japanese capital gains tax on your primary residence. It appears you are liable but only for capital gain in excess of 30 million after deducting both buying and selling costs. That can include demolition costs.

So, unless the property was bought way back in the 60s or something and is in a prime location there will be nothing to pay.

[Salty]

I actually have a problem with property tax since it basically means there is no true ownership by individuals

I'm not with you. How's that?

If you have to pay taxes to keep your property, you don't own it. You're just renting it.

IMO - that is a good way to look at it. You only `own` the right to hold it and manage it so long as you abide by the society rules - pay your taxes, keep it in a safe condition, and in some jurisdictions - keep it looking similar to others in the same area. The land itself is simply rented from society and held for the next generation.

[chibaka]

Regarding Japanese capital gains tax on your primary residence. It appears you are liable but only for capital gain in excess of 30 million after deducting both buying and selling costs. That can include demolition costs.

So, unless the property was bought way back in the 60s or something and is in a prime location there will be nothing to pay.

In Japan that maybe true, but if you have a property for a long time and the value has raised by the rate of inflation, have you really gained anything?
All you are doing is protecting your money. But if you buy and sell a property in a short space of time, with some profit, then yes, you have gained.
Would that be calculated differently?

[Wage Slave]

It wouldn't be calculated any differently if you bought and sold quickly. The only very important condition is that it must be your main or only residence otherwise capital gains tax for you. Not much chance of that though.

Inflation. I remember that, just about. You are right though. Inflation damages savers very unfairly and benefits debtors. However, in the case of residential property remember that the mortgage debt is being depreciated by inflation so in that kind of market the property owner is winning both ways. The debt on the property is losing value at the same time the property is keeping up with inflation or even gaining value.

As for the market here - little to no inflation and if anything gentle deflation in the property market. Capital gains tax on the home is the least of anyone's worries.

[Wage Slave]

I actually have a problem with property tax since it basically means there is no true ownership by individuals

I'm not with you. How's that?

If you have to pay taxes to keep your property, you don't own it. You're just renting it.

IMO - that is a good way to look at it. You only `own` the right to hold it and manage it so long as you abide by the society rules - pay your taxes, keep it in a safe condition, and in some jurisdictions - keep it looking similar to others in the same area. The land itself is simply rented from society and held for the next generation.

On a higher philosophical level, yes absolutely right. As far as law and property rights are concerned, not at all.