Yuriko Kotani Wins BBC Best New Comedy Award

[Mike Oxlong]

I've heard a number of North American comedians say stand up in the UK is awful overall.

I'm sure the reverse assertion is also true. Divided by a common language and all that.

It's not. A lot of American and Canadian stand ups do well in the UK but the reverse isn't true. I'm not talking about the superstars in either market because those are the exceptions. I'm talking about people who just do stand up for a living. I think it's partly (mostly?) because The US/Canadian stand up scene is a lot bigger so there's more of a chance to develop your material and you can actually make an OK living as a stand up without becoming an Eddie Izzard or Louis CK. I've heard British (and Australian) comedians say in interviews that unless you really make it there, you have to have a job and do comedy on the side as a hobby. A lot of working comics in North America only do comedy. It means being on the road all the time but that's the nature of the business.

I've heard the same thing from Aussies about rock bands. Not enough of a live music market to make it a career choice unless you hit it big fast. Many who want to do it for a living apparently move to the US.

[Russell]

A lot of American and Canadian stand ups do well in the UK but the reverse isn't true.

I am not surprised about that.

Many UK comedians talk in a heavy dialect and use lots of cultural references. Though I understand most comedians from US soil, the UK is somewhat off the scale to me.

[Russell]

A lot of American and Canadian stand ups do well in the UK but the reverse isn't true.

I am not surprised about that.

Many UK comedians talk in a heavy dialect and use lots of cultural references. Though I understand most comedians from US soil, the UK is somewhat off the scale to me.

[Wage Slave]

There's a culture gap as well - a whole different approach to comedy. A lot of British comedy has never done well in the US. It's not to everyone's taste - never has been. Stephen Fry lays out the contrast very well:

[Samurai_Jerk]

There's a culture gap as well - a whole different approach to comedy. A lot of British comedy has never done well in the US. It's not to everyone's taste - never has been. Stephen Fry lays out the contrast very well:

Interesting but I'm talking specifically about stand up which is very different from what he's talking about.

[Wage Slave]

There's a culture gap as well - a whole different approach to comedy. A lot of British comedy has never done well in the US. It's not to everyone's taste - never has been. Stephen Fry lays out the contrast very well:

Interesting but I'm talking specifically about stand up which is very different from what he's talking about.

I know but he was talking about the whole approach to comedy which of course it also affects the approach to stand up and the type of material produced for that. And partly explains why a lot of British stand up doesn't fly in the US. It's simply the wrong sort of comedy. And vice versa - I'm not at all convinced all American stand up comics find the UK an easy gig. Some certainly do but I'm far from convinced it's a rule.

[wagyl]

Not really that different. I think in the British tradition, someone just standing up on a stage and telling funny stories, even if they are making precise observations about society, will still be regarded as not 100% a performer. It is a different comedy tradition. A comic act, a character being played, is much more valued in that tradition than just someone who can tell funny stories. It is only recently with the tsunami of panel shows in the UK that there has been a commercial outlet for them. There was not the dining halls of camps in the Catskills full of patrons needing to be entertained, which is the sort of thing that allowed a stand-up tradition to blossom in North America.

[Samurai_Jerk]

A comic act, a character being played, is much more valued

Exactly. Which is why it sucks. Goofy characters and musical acts. It's like American comedy 50+ years ago or Japanese comedy now. In other words, unsophisticated. That's funny because the Brits tend to pride themselves on having such sharp wit unlike stupid Americans. Maybe Larry the Cable Guy would be the American version of that garbage. I think the only non-North American stand ups whose acts I've been able to sit through were Jim Jefferies and Eddie Izzard. And please don't bring up Billy Connolly. He's a funny comedic actor but his stand up is

[wagyl]

Saying one sucks and the other one blows is just a matter of taste and tradition. It is equally easy to say that standing on a bare stage with just a microphone is unsophisticated. Why do I have to come to this comedy club for this person to just stand there and tell a funny story? I might as well be listening on the radio.

It is fine to recognise the difference, and for you to have a preference for one style or the other. It is even appropriate to say that the practitioners from one culture as not as adept in the style performed in the other culture (which is a two way street by the way). However, it is not appropriate to make a defining judgement that one style is better than another.

[Wage Slave]

Saying one sucks and the other one blows is just a matter of taste and tradition. It is equally easy to say that standing on a bare stage with just a microphone is unsophisticated. Why do I have to come to this comedy club for this person to just stand there and tell a funny story? I might as well be listening on the radio.

It is fine to recognise the difference, and for you to have a preference for one style or the other. It is even appropriate to say that the practitioners from one culture as not as adept in the style performed in the other culture (which is a two way street by the way). However, it is not appropriate to make a defining judgement that one style is better than another.

And that should be bleeding obvious. You said it with a lot more precision and grace than I could muster though. Nice.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Saying one sucks and the other one blows is just a matter of taste and tradition. It is equally easy to say that standing on a bare stage with just a microphone is unsophisticated. Why do I have to come to this comedy club for this person to just stand there and tell a funny story? I might as well be listening on the radio.

It is fine to recognise the difference, and for you to have a preference for one style or the other. It is even appropriate to say that the practitioners from one culture as not as adept in the style performed in the other culture (which is a two way street by the way). However, it is not appropriate to make a defining judgement that one style is better than another.

It is an objective fact that American and Canadian stand ups are better than those in the UK, Ireland, or Australia.

[wagyl]

Saying one sucks and the other one blows is just a matter of taste and tradition. It is equally easy to say that standing on a bare stage with just a microphone is unsophisticated. Why do I have to come to this comedy club for this person to just stand there and tell a funny story? I might as well be listening on the radio.

It is fine to recognise the difference, and for you to have a preference for one style or the other. It is even appropriate to say that the practitioners from one culture as not as adept in the style performed in the other culture (which is a two way street by the way). However, it is not appropriate to make a defining judgement that one style is better than another.

It is an objective fact that American and Canadian stand ups are better than those in the UK, Ireland, or Australia.

But what about dem Kiwis and Springboks!

If you read English you will see that I have granted your statement there an "even appropriate" status.

However, the statement I called you out on is

A comic act, a character being played, is much more valued

Exactly. Which is why it sucks. Goofy characters and musical acts. It's like American comedy 50+ years ago or Japanese comedy now. In other words, unsophisticated.

which is a value judgement as to whether standup is on a higher plane than character-based comedy. This is not an objective truth.

Both kinds of comedy find an audience. I seem to detect vaguely that you have a preference for one over the other. Not everybody is the same, and Praise Baby Jesus! for that.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I'm talking about stand up and stand up only. If you're talking about sketch comedy, that's a different conversation. Some stand up does include goofy characters, music, props, puppets, etc. and it almost always sucks.

I've never seen any Kiwi stand up comedy and the only South African I'm aware of is joke-thief Trevor Noah.

[matsuki]

To bring it back to Japan....I wonder how long before she gets blown up over here for having some gaikoku success? I can already hear the 「やっぱり日本人は。。。」

[wagyl]

I'm talking about stand up and stand up only. If you're talking about sketch comedy, that's a different conversation. Some stand up does include goofy characters, music, props, puppets, etc. and it almost always sucks.

I've never seen any Kiwi stand up comedy and the only South African I'm aware of is joke-thief Trevor Noah.

OK I see that we were talking at cross purposes. I was trying to point out that outside of North America standup has a tendency to look like a less polished theatrical event, with just someone standing there telling a funny story, and other forms of comedy are valued more, and those forms of comedy would never be satisfactory even if you tried to perform them in the same style as standup.

It seems that you understood that to mean that in those comic traditions, standup which involves character performance is valued. That is not what I was trying to say. I was trying to say that standup, whatever the form, is valued less, in those comic traditions.

I therefore took your "character-based comedy sucks and is unsophisticated" at face value. I now understand that you mean that "character-based standup sucks." I think you can perhaps understand why I would find a value judgement that comedy other than standup doesn't reach the pinnacle standup stands astride, being stated as an absolute truth, was not appropriate.

In any event, it really all comes down to "◯◯ is not to my taste." If other people like it, good for them. You are not forced to watch (or, in the case of standup, listen). It is only by having a wide range of art put on show that new material can be created.

Oh, and regarding those other southern hemisphere countries, I was just pointing out that you had missed out at least two other major English language cultures, and I didn't want them to feel lonely in this conversation. Anglophone group hug!!!

[Mike Oxlong]

Australian standup comedian holds his own.

[Mike Oxlong]