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kurogane wrote:But you guys are in Japan, so the native efficiency should ensure you don't have to go through that. They're very advanced technologically, you know.
Tsuru wrote:Has anyone considered the fact that somewhere in the fine print these smart meters don't substract any excess power generated by the home (solar) that is returned to the grid? This does work with the old-fashioned rotary meter. With solar power becoming more and more popular even in Japan, this creates another incentive for power companies to push smart meters.
All good and well if they can charge you for the power they deliver to your home, but obviously they can't have you substracting any you generate yourself from the bill. Power which is given to them for free, and which they then sell to other customers through their respective meters.
Tsuru wrote:It depends on a lot of things, first and foremost legislation, and of course which company you are with and the exact type of meter they want to install. Since most people on here can't read Dutch or German I'm not going to bore you with stuff which doesn't apply to Japan anyway, but my point is: check the fine print, caveat emptor, etc. I'm merely pointing out our experience with smart meters on the old continent. The overarching thought over here is: if you have a meter which can back up, refuse replacement as long as possible, as until at least 2020 you are under no obligation to have it replaced.
Tsuru wrote:Since most people on here can't read Dutch or German I'm not going to bore you with stuff which doesn't apply to Japan anyway,
wagyl wrote:Tsuru wrote:Since most people on here can't read Dutch or German I'm not going to bore you with stuff which doesn't apply to Japan anyway,
Sometimes I wonder if many of the people here can read English but that doesn't stop me linking.
As you say it may be very dependent on locality. Since the rates paid for electricity in and solar generated electricity out in this country are different, as indeed are the rates for hydro generated electricity and wind generated electricity different again, my understanding is that there are at least two meters with different polarity, one measuring in and recording time of day (as the rates inwards are different by time as well) and the other recording electricity being returned to the grid. In that case, a meter with a reverse function will be insufficient for proper payment of power sold by you to the grid.
Russell wrote:wagyl wrote:Tsuru wrote:Since most people on here can't read Dutch or German I'm not going to bore you with stuff which doesn't apply to Japan anyway,
Sometimes I wonder if many of the people here can read English but that doesn't stop me linking.
As you say it may be very dependent on locality. Since the rates paid for electricity in and solar generated electricity out in this country are different, as indeed are the rates for hydro generated electricity and wind generated electricity different again, my understanding is that there are at least two meters with different polarity, one measuring in and recording time of day (as the rates inwards are different by time as well) and the other recording electricity being returned to the grid. In that case, a meter with a reverse function will be insufficient for proper payment of power sold by you to the grid.
Anyway, I doubt that solar power delivered to the net is accounted for by the reverse-rotation of the meter, because the rates for buying power and selling it are different.
Anyway, I doubt that solar power delivered to the net is accounted for by the reverse-rotation of the meter, because the rates for buying power and selling it are different.
Russell wrote:Tsuru wrote:It depends on a lot of things, first and foremost legislation, and of course which company you are with and the exact type of meter they want to install. Since most people on here can't read Dutch or German I'm not going to bore you with stuff which doesn't apply to Japan anyway, but my point is: check the fine print, caveat emptor, etc. I'm merely pointing out our experience with smart meters on the old continent. The overarching thought over here is: if you have a meter which can back up, refuse replacement as long as possible, as until at least 2020 you are under no obligation to have it replaced.
Does 2020 apply to the Netherlands?
How is that related to Japan?
wagyl wrote:Russell wrote:wagyl wrote:Tsuru wrote:Since most people on here can't read Dutch or German I'm not going to bore you with stuff which doesn't apply to Japan anyway,
Sometimes I wonder if many of the people here can read English but that doesn't stop me linking.
As you say it may be very dependent on locality. Since the rates paid for electricity in and solar generated electricity out in this country are different, as indeed are the rates for hydro generated electricity and wind generated electricity different again, my understanding is that there are at least two meters with different polarity, one measuring in and recording time of day (as the rates inwards are different by time as well) and the other recording electricity being returned to the grid. In that case, a meter with a reverse function will be insufficient for proper payment of power sold by you to the grid.
Anyway, I doubt that solar power delivered to the net is accounted for by the reverse-rotation of the meter, because the rates for buying power and selling it are different.
See what I mean about not reading English...
(apologies to Russell if I am holding him to too strict reading of his English and his understanding of the nuance of "Anyway,")
Tsuru wrote:Anyway, I doubt that solar power delivered to the net is accounted for by the reverse-rotation of the meter, because the rates for buying power and selling it are different.
It most definitely is in our case.Russell wrote:Tsuru wrote:It depends on a lot of things, first and foremost legislation, and of course which company you are with and the exact type of meter they want to install. Since most people on here can't read Dutch or German I'm not going to bore you with stuff which doesn't apply to Japan anyway, but my point is: check the fine print, caveat emptor, etc. I'm merely pointing out our experience with smart meters on the old continent. The overarching thought over here is: if you have a meter which can back up, refuse replacement as long as possible, as until at least 2020 you are under no obligation to have it replaced.
Does 2020 apply to the Netherlands?
How is that related to Japan?
It doesn't, which is exactly what I wrote in the post you quoted.
Anyway, you guys seem to have it covered. It never hurts to be sure, as we seem to get shafted at every turn. Gone are the days where you could look at technological progress as a 100% positive thing.
Russell wrote:Now, have you considered shortening your writing without cutting out contents?
Russell wrote:Fyra (the Dutch Shinkansen).
wagyl wrote:Russell wrote:Fyra (the Dutch Shinkansen).
You know you are in trouble when ALDI head office formally object to the popular nickname ALDI-trein.
Tsuru wrote:We should just scuttle The Hague in the North Sea and join Germany.
F35, Fyra, ABN-AMRO, government IT, health insurance reform, higher education reforms...
Tsuru wrote:wagyl wrote:Russell wrote:Fyra (the Dutch Shinkansen).
You know you are in trouble when ALDI head office formally object to the popular nickname ALDI-trein.
11 billion lost to mismanagement and incompetence, and still nothing to show for it. F35, Fyra, ABN-AMRO, government IT, health insurance reform, higher education reforms... I don't think there is any example of something major that was done in this country during the last 15 years which was not a complete and utter pile of shit that made a few people a bit richer and fucked op everything for anyone else well into the next few decades.
wagyl wrote:Russell wrote:Now, have you considered shortening your writing without cutting out contents?
Whenever I (or anyone else, for that matter) write twitter style, the message is missing important information which always ends up being the cause of a much longer conversation to finally establish what everyone meant to say in the first place. The natural tendency for the internet to make you sound angry and to get angry as a result is not helped by the longer conversation.
I'm really sorry if your reading capacity is the first four lines of a five line post, and if that five line post is too long for you.
I will admit to having a tendency for complex sentences (with far too many parenthetical comments in them) and this is, I think, something that happened with exposure to Japanese sentence construction. I actually do that to try to keep my posts shorter. But anyway, I know you haven't got this far down my post so I will stop here.
Russell wrote:Anyways...
OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. This is a forum after all, not a literature contest.
It is just that I am such a big fan of Strunk and White.
wagyl wrote:Sometimes I wonder if many of the people here can read English but that doesn't stop me linking.
As you say it may be very dependent on locality. Since the rates paid for electricity in and solar generated electricity out in this country are different, as indeed are the rates for hydro generated electricity and wind generated electricity different again, my understanding is that there are at least two meters with different polarity, one measuring in and recording time of day (as the rates inwards are different by time as well) and the other recording electricity being returned to the grid. In that case, a meter with a reverse function will be insufficient for proper payment of power sold by you to the grid.
yanpa wrote:F35, Fyra, ABN-AMRO, government IT, health insurance reform, higher education reforms...
Swap those first three specifics and you're describing pretty much any major economy... Which reminds me, when's the opening of Berlin's shiny new airport (first planned a quarter of a century ago) going to be rescheduled again?
Wage Slave wrote:Strunk and White - Worth reading this.
http://chronicle.com/article/50-Years-of-Stupid-Grammar/25497
and far better:
http://www.amazon.com/Sense-Style-Thinking-Persons-Writing/dp/0143127799/ref=asap_bc?ie=UTF8
wagyl wrote:Russell wrote:Anyways...
OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. This is a forum after all, not a literature contest.
It is just that I am such a big fan of Strunk and White.
For my education, when you have the time, go for your life with your red pen to show what I should have cut from the problem post.wagyl wrote:Sometimes I wonder if many of the people here can read English but that doesn't stop me linking.
As you say it may be very dependent on locality. Since the rates paid for electricity in and solar generated electricity out in this country are different, as indeed are the rates for hydro generated electricity and wind generated electricity different again, my understanding is that there are at least two meters with different polarity, one measuring in and recording time of day (as the rates inwards are different by time as well) and the other recording electricity being returned to the grid. In that case, a meter with a reverse function will be insufficient for proper payment of power sold by you to the grid.
I could have removed the half-line meandering tangent about hydro and wind generation, but that is about all I think. If you have other pointers, I am interested to hear. Of course, you managed it in one line but I would say that you could manage that because you piggybacked on the background in my post.
Russell wrote:wagyl wrote:Russell wrote:Anyways...
OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. This is a forum after all, not a literature contest.
It is just that I am such a big fan of Strunk and White.
For my education, when you have the time, go for your life with your red pen to show what I should have cut from the problem post.wagyl wrote:Sometimes I wonder if many of the people here can read English but that doesn't stop me linking.
As you say it may be very dependent on locality. Since the rates paid for electricity in and solar generated electricity out in this country are different, as indeed are the rates for hydro generated electricity and wind generated electricity different again, my understanding is that there are at least two meters with different polarity, one measuring in and recording time of day (as the rates inwards are different by time as well) and the other recording electricity being returned to the grid. In that case, a meter with a reverse function will be insufficient for proper payment of power sold by you to the grid.
I could have removed the half-line meandering tangent about hydro and wind generation, but that is about all I think. If you have other pointers, I am interested to hear. Of course, you managed it in one line but I would say that you could manage that because you piggybacked on the background in my post.
Ouch, what did I get myself into. Let me sleep a night over it.
Just one indication why I didn't get your point the first time: I read the first two lines of the paragraph, because I assumed that was the key point being made. The following lines would give more details, but are basically supplementary, so I skipped those. Unfortunately, they contained the main information.
Of course, Japanese writing is different. It tends to first give the background, and then build up to a climax later in the paragraph. That climax should come at the end (I guess), but that does not always happen...
You are an idiot and you are wrong. Reverse won't help because rates are different.
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