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canman wrote:I have to agree with Yokohammer on this one. We have a ton of debris to be disposed of, but there is just not enough incinerators to get the job done. This debris, which I'm fairly sure is not radioactive, considering we are further away from Fukushima than most of you Kanto people are, is really causing a headache for reconstruction. There is no place to put it, while waiting for it to be disposed of, so any work to get homes and buildings and other things built is put on hold. The reason there is a rush to get this done, is precisely the complaint the gov't has been facing not enough rebuilding and reconstruction. But if you have piles of waste taking up space, then how can you start to rebuild?
While I also agree with the idea of trying to dispose of the material near where it is, it would take at lest two years to build facilities to burn this. The cost would be huge, adding to the huge debt, and then in a few years when the ruble was finally disposed of, they would sit there as white elephants and everybody would blame the gov't for wasting more money.
Hideaki Omura (Aichi Governor), has decided to spend 600 million yen to plan for the incineration plant
That the way it should work, as long as you don't get it, be scared and carefull (that don't mean run out of the room while screaming). If you setup quarantine early enough you save lives for the price of inconveniencing few.People were just scared shitless of something they didn't understand
Coligny wrote:There is a HUGE amount of stupid going on here. The places actually destroyed where also destroyed during the previous huge tsunami. Insisting on rebuilding there seems to be a provocation against Darwin. Relocate the people, not the trash.
Mike Oxlong wrote: Why don't we just finally finish off the ozone layer and let the ionizing cosmic radiation bathe us in friendly tanning rays?
canman wrote:Two points...really, places don't have any facilities to burn the debris? I have a hard time believing that...
canman wrote:Ok, I read the article and all it told me is that the author has drunk the cool aid that all the debris is radioactive and toxic which we know it is not!
Also the article states that many of these incinerators are state of the art and don't release toxins or other harmless chemicals. So the incinerators are built and ready to burn all they need is fuel, so why not use them.
The final point is if the debris is not sent out to be burned, then what should be done with it?
canman wrote:"The first and foremost is a fat subsidy they will get from the national government (which is beyond broke, so it will tax the citizens today and for the foreseeable future) for saying yes to having the disaster debris contaminated with radioactive materials and toxic chemicals shipped to their cities and towns to burn and bury the resulting ashes."
This is from the first paragraph from the link you posted.
canman wrote:Coligny, what are you smoking! For gods sake, people in NA were afraid of getting aids from drinking fountains, and from mosquito bites! That is how paranoid they were. Yes, at first it was thought to be a druggy, gay disease, but when it started to move into the hemophiliac community and people like Magic Johnson were infected, there was outright panic.
And one more point, I don't think you want to use this debris as land fill, not unless you want what happened in Urayasu Chiba after the last big earthquake.
Yokohammer wrote:1) Tohoku disaster debris was created by the tsunami, not by the nuclear accident, and most of it is not radioactive. Certainly no more so than garbage in Tokyo.
Yokohammer wrote: 2) Tohoku is doing what it can to clean up the debris, but there's simply too much of it (100 years' worth). There's no avoiding the fact that assistance is required.
Coligny wrote:This point is totally irrelevant. Contamination is a post Tsunami problem still going on.
Coligny wrote:This point could have been discussed much more level headedly if the governement didn't do his best to fuck everything up.
Yokohammer wrote:I disagree, and I really don't understand how you can justify that statement. It is totally relevant. How can it not be?
We're talking about absolutes here: what is contaminated is contaminated, and what is not is not.
Yokohammer wrote:I don't get this either. So you're saying that since the government fucked up (which they most certainly did) that there's no more room for level headed discussion?
No, criminal would be the word i'd use.This is what I'm talking about when I say that sitting around and complaining about the government's handling of the situation is unproductive.
Correct me if I'm missing an important part of your argument, but it sounds like you're just throwing your hands up and saying "shoganai" because the government aren't doing it right, and that the lax lot ought to be thrown in jail. How does that solve the problem?
Comments like "that's irrelevant" or "if only the government would have ..." are nothing but a dead end that should be avoided.
nikoneko wrote:Correct me if I'm wrong but a middle ground between the two of you would be there is contaminated debris and uncontaminated debris but we can't trust the current information out there to tell us which is which.
Mike Oxlong wrote:Wayne Gretzky traded to the Kings, now THAT inspired panic!
Coligny wrote:Tohoku's problems are... for Tohoku...
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