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Screwed-down Hairdo wrote:Personally, I suspect a very significant factor in Australia's decision came from answering the question of whether it could trust a crucial part of its defence to a country that blatantly lied to it over the whaling ban ruling. Abe shot himself in the foot by betraying the promise to abide by the ruling. Blatant lying is rarely a good way to earn trust.
Yokohammer wrote:Screwed-down Hairdo wrote:Personally, I suspect a very significant factor in Australia's decision came from answering the question of whether it could trust a crucial part of its defence to a country that blatantly lied to it over the whaling ban ruling. Abe shot himself in the foot by betraying the promise to abide by the ruling. Blatant lying is rarely a good way to earn trust.
That's: continues to lie about "research whaling" and simply reneged on its promise to abide by the whaling ban ruling.
I agree, and have tried to make this point on numerous occasions, but some people seem to have trouble seeing the connection between acting like a petulant dickhead and failing to gain trust and respect in international affairs.
Samurai_Jerk wrote:If that's the case, Australia should just come out and say it. Aussies are a bunch of passive aggressive twats though. Until you get them drunk. Then they're just plain aggressive and violent.
Yokohammer wrote:Samurai_Jerk wrote:If that's the case, Australia should just come out and say it. Aussies are a bunch of passive aggressive twats though. Until you get them drunk. Then they're just plain aggressive and violent.
If that's your true impression of Australians and you're not just trolling for a reaction (which is what I suspect you're doing because you're painting things with an uncharacteristically broad brush there), then you hang out with the wrong crowd.
The International Court of Justice has already assigned blame in the whaling case. It would be unnecessary and undiplomatic for the Australian government to do so.
Samurai_Jerk wrote:That was mostly for SDH's benefit.
Samurai_Jerk wrote:That was mostly for SDH's benefit.
Screwed-down Hairdo wrote:Samurai_Jerk wrote:That was mostly for SDH's benefit.
Hit the nail on the head.
Samurai_Jerk wrote:Screwed-down Hairdo wrote:Samurai_Jerk wrote:That was mostly for SDH's benefit.
Hit the nail on the head.
I've found that Australians who aren't of Anglo or Celtic origin are decent people and they're the first to tell you how bad the "real" Aussies are.
Russell wrote:And you didn't even mention the Aboriginals.
The ICJ ruling did not prevent Japan from undertaking further whale research activities in the Antarctic region, but, in accordance with the ICJ's decision, NEWREP-A needs to sufficiently meet two objectives:
Improvement of both biological and ecological data on Antarctic minke whales.
Investigation of the structure and dynamics of the Antarctic marine ecosystem through the development of ecosystem models.[94]
Japan has stipulated that it will only kill whales if non-lethal methods of data collection and biopsy sampling fail to meet the plan's objectives. Furthermore, the International Union for Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources (IUCN) has declared that information on the number of Antarctic minke whale "data deficient".[94] In early October 2015, Japan's ambassador to the UN, Motohide Yoshikawa, announced that Japan does not accept the court's jurisdiction over research, conservation, or exploitation of marine life and would proceed with NEWREP-A, without waiting for the court's approval. On 1 December 2015 Japan sent a fleet to the Antarctic Ocean with the aim of catching 330 minke whales.[96][97] The fleet included the ship the Nisshin Maru and three smaller boats. The move was met with objections from the Australian and New Zealand governments, who complained that the complexity of the language used and the timing of the announcement at the height of billabong and barbecue season constituted a sneak attack by the Japanese intended to prevent a coherent rebuttal. [97]
Samurai_Jerk wrote:I finally found a use for Trump's presidential bid. Recently a few of my Japanese friends have said they really hope we don't elect Trump. I replied he's pretty much like Ishihara. That's the first time I've been able to get Tokyoites to understand what a fuckwad Blinky is/was.
kurogane wrote:Samurai_Jerk wrote:I finally found a use for Trump's presidential bid. Recently a few of my Japanese friends have said they really hope we don't elect Trump. I replied he's pretty much like Ishihara. That's the first time I've been able to get Tokyoites to understand what a fuckwad Blinky is/was.
I agree, but did they actually get it in YRHOMO? Do these people know you and your politics well enough to just nod and ignore you? I have tried similar tactics over the years and been at the sharp end of some very, very agitated responses from otherwise pretty reasonable, decent people. Suggesting he is not the Saviour come to Earth is like trying to convince a 30dumbthing Otaku that Livedoor's Horie is also actually a crook and a douche.
Still, nice to hear of small victories.
kurogane wrote:BTW, just to go back a bit, surely even Australians can grasp that the ICJ ruled that Japan's whaling activities were insufficiently scientific, not that all whaling activities are necessarily illegal or banned? Surely there must be a Big Print Easy English version of the ruling out there for the Australian Diplomatic Corp's edification.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whaling_i ... Moratorium
Excerpt from:The ICJ ruling did not prevent Japan from undertaking further whale research activities in the Antarctic region, but, in accordance with the ICJ's decision, NEWREP-A needs to sufficiently meet two objectives:
Improvement of both biological and ecological data on Antarctic minke whales.
Investigation of the structure and dynamics of the Antarctic marine ecosystem through the development of ecosystem models.[94]
Japan has stipulated that it will only kill whales if non-lethal methods of data collection and biopsy sampling fail to meet the plan's objectives. Furthermore, the International Union for Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources (IUCN) has declared that information on the number of Antarctic minke whale "data deficient".[94] In early October 2015, Japan's ambassador to the UN, Motohide Yoshikawa, announced that Japan does not accept the court's jurisdiction over research, conservation, or exploitation of marine life and would proceed with NEWREP-A, without waiting for the court's approval. On 1 December 2015 Japan sent a fleet to the Antarctic Ocean with the aim of catching 330 minke whales.[96][97] The fleet included the ship the Nisshin Maru and three smaller boats. The move was met with objections from the Australian and New Zealand governments.
Prime Minister Shinzo Abe said Wednesday he will abide by the court ruling that banned the nation’s controversial Antarctic whale hunt.
The conservative leader told Japan’s chief whaling negotiator that he would respect the judgement issued this week by the International Court of Justice.
“It is a pity and I am deeply disappointed,” Abe was quoted as saying by Japan’s chief negotiator Koji Tsuruoka during a meeting at his office.
“But I will follow the ruling,” Abe said, according to Tsuruoka, who spoke to reporters after meeting the premier.
Greens Senator Peter Whish-Wilson said Japan had promised to abide by the court's decision and uphold the rule of law, but it had backed away from this position.
In early October 2015, Japan's ambassador to the UN, Motohide Yoshikawa, announced that Japan does not accept the court's jurisdiction over research, conservation, or exploitation of marine life and would proceed with NEWREP-A, without waiting for the court's approval. On 1 December 2015 Japan sent a fleet to the Antarctic Ocean with the aim of catching 330 minke whales.
matsuki wrote:April 2014
http://www.japantoday.com/category/poli ... on-whalingPrime Minister Shinzo Abe said Wednesday he will abide by the court ruling that banned the nation’s controversial Antarctic whale hunt.
The conservative leader told Japan’s chief whaling negotiator that he would respect the judgement issued this week by the International Court of Justice.
“It is a pity and I am deeply disappointed,” Abe was quoted as saying by Japan’s chief negotiator Koji Tsuruoka during a meeting at his office.
“But I will follow the ruling,” Abe said, according to Tsuruoka, who spoke to reporters after meeting the premier.Greens Senator Peter Whish-Wilson said Japan had promised to abide by the court's decision and uphold the rule of law, but it had backed away from this position.
and then...In early October 2015, Japan's ambassador to the UN, Motohide Yoshikawa, announced that Japan does not accept the court's jurisdiction over research, conservation, or exploitation of marine life and would proceed with NEWREP-A, without waiting for the court's approval. On 1 December 2015 Japan sent a fleet to the Antarctic Ocean with the aim of catching 330 minke whales.
matsuki wrote:kurogane wrote:Samurai_Jerk wrote:I finally found a use for Trump's presidential bid. Recently a few of my Japanese friends have said they really hope we don't elect Trump. I replied he's pretty much like Ishihara. That's the first time I've been able to get Tokyoites to understand what a fuckwad Blinky is/was.
I agree, but did they actually get it in YRHOMO? Do these people know you and your politics well enough to just nod and ignore you? I have tried similar tactics over the years and been at the sharp end of some very, very agitated responses from otherwise pretty reasonable, decent people. Suggesting he is not the Saviour come to Earth is like trying to convince a 30dumbthing Otaku that Livedoor's Horie is also actually a crook and a douche.
Still, nice to hear of small victories.
Very different than SJ's crowd but the youngins I know, even the ones that were getting nationalistic, have not exactly been too excited by Abe and what he's doing lately. I think it started when that whole secrecy bill was forced through but then there are the nuke plants and the whole media muzzle...throw in a Chuuhgoku mitai for a litmus test
matsuki wrote:Japaneeeze sutairu!
Why Australia doesn't send a few military ships to greet them is beyond me. No shots need be fired and what is Japan going to do? Escalate the situation further by sending their own...not likely.
wagyl wrote:matsuki wrote:Japaneeeze sutairu!
Why Australia doesn't send a few military ships to greet them is beyond me. No shots need be fired and what is Japan going to do? Escalate the situation further by sending their own...not likely.
If it is beyond you, then you don't understand diplomacy. I don't think this needs military escalation. Currently, Japan looks petulant and intransigent, and they are all unforced errors. Why do anything to stop that theatre, and distract attention?
It is not as though the whaling is taking place in an exclusive economic zone. And I think the Navy has better things to to.
Russell wrote:wagyl wrote:matsuki wrote:Japaneeeze sutairu!
Why Australia doesn't send a few military ships to greet them is beyond me. No shots need be fired and what is Japan going to do? Escalate the situation further by sending their own...not likely.
If it is beyond you, then you don't understand diplomacy. I don't think this needs military escalation. Currently, Japan looks petulant and intransigent, and they are all unforced errors. Why do anything to stop that theatre, and distract attention?
It is not as though the whaling is taking place in an exclusive economic zone. And I think the Navy has better things to to.
Barbecuing?
matsuki wrote:April 2014
http://www.japantoday.com/category/poli ... on-whalingPrime Minister Shinzo Abe said Wednesday he will abide by the court ruling that banned the nation’s controversial Antarctic whale hunt...............
Greens Senator Peter Whish-Wilson said Japan had promised to abide by the court's decision and uphold the rule of law, but it had backed away from this position.
matsuki wrote: and then...In early October 2015, Japan's ambassador to the UN, Motohide Yoshikawa, announced that Japan does not accept the court's jurisdiction over research, conservation, or exploitation of marine life and would proceed with NEWREP-A, without waiting for the court's approval. ......
kurogane wrote:matsuki wrote:April 2014
http://www.japantoday.com/category/poli ... on-whalingPrime Minister Shinzo Abe said Wednesday he will abide by the court ruling that banned the nation’s controversial Antarctic whale hunt.
...........on the grounds that it was not scientific research activity, which is not only not banned but is not even bannable under the treaty that bans whaling, which means if it is adjudged to be scientific research activity then nobody gets to say doodly squat, because IT ISN'T A BANNED ACTIVITY
The ICJ ruling did not prevent Japan from undertaking further whale research activities in the Antarctic region, but, in accordance with the ICJ's decision, NEWREP-A needs to sufficiently meet two objectives:
Improvement of both biological and ecological data on Antarctic minke whales.
Investigation of the structure and dynamics of the Antarctic marine ecosystem through the development of ecosystem models.
Japan has stipulated that it will only kill whales if non-lethal methods of data collection and biopsy sampling fail to meet the plan's objectives. Furthermore, the International Union for Conservation of Nature and Natural Resources (IUCN) has declared that information on the number of Antarctic minke whale "data deficient".
Japan does not accept the court's jurisdiction over research, conservation, or exploitation of marine life and would proceed with NEWREP-A, without waiting for the court's approval. On 1 December 2015 Japan sent a fleet to the Antarctic Ocean with the aim of catching 330 minke whales.
Samurai_Jerk wrote:I don't really talk politics much with the locals but they've been bringing Trump up a lot. They seem to get it
kurogane wrote:purported
Takechanpoo wrote:on the other hand, aussies have pretended to see nothing about overfishing of Krill in antarctic because they are neither high intelligence nor humans friend. and then now like this...
http://www.dailynews.com/general-news/2 ... -oil-habit
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... guins.html
what a bunch of hypocrites
Russell wrote:Could it be that Japan insists on doing research on whales in order to design better submarines? It suddenly started to make sense...
Russell wrote:Now that the connection has been made between the hunting of those whales and the non-sale of those submarines by Japan, I can't get it out of my head that whales pretty much resemble submarines.
Could it be that Japan insists on doing research on whales in order to design better submarines? It suddenly started to make sense...
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