Double Dutch gets in Dutch

[kurogane]

Geert Wilders: Dutch Freedom Party chief will be tried for racial hatred
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-37653453

Although the outspoken right-winger has repeatedly criticised Islam, calling for a ban on the Koran and the closure of all mosques in the Netherlands, prosecutors say he crossed the line this time by targeting people on the basis of their ethnicity.
At a 2014 rally of his Party for Freedom (PVV), after supporters chanted they wanted "fewer" Moroccan nationals he replied: "We'll organise that."

I am torn by this one. On the one hand, from what little I remember, it couldn't happen to a nicer person and it will be fun to watch him squirm. OTOH, what he seems to have actually said was pretty tame and he is talking about Snackbars in Europe. I fear that it's a massive attack on freedumb of speech, especially when one accounts for what little he said, and I fear they have jumped the gun and will trivialise actual racism and further anger and embolden the Tweedledumbs.
If they would tack on a charge of unecessarily bad hairdo I think I could go full jihad on this.

[Samurai_Jerk]

freedumb of speech

Europe and Canada don't understand that concept.

[kurogane]

Increasingly so, apparently. I have always been mildly opposed to the idea of hate speech for other reasons, but the panty wetting creep evident here is the main reason: once you empower cat ladies and minority Mohammedans they will never fail to find ways to inflate their voluntary suffering. And I have rather strong memories of this Wilders being quite a distasteful character.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Increasingly so, apparently. I have always been mildly opposed to the idea of hate speech for other reasons, but the panty wetting creep evident here is the main reason: once you empower cat ladies and minority Mohammedans they will never fail to find ways to inflate their voluntary suffering. And I have rather strong memories of this Wilders being quite a distasteful character.

The Mike Ward case is fucking ridiculous.

https://news.vice.com/article/a-canadia ... disability

[Russell]

freedumb of speech

Europe and Canada don't understand that concept.

I hope you understand that reality is a bit more complicated.

In the U.S. you can be fired for admitting that you're an atheist. Quite unthinkable in Europe.

Oh, and then there is the ranking of countries by freedom of press:

1. Finland
2. The Netherlands
3. Norway
4. Denmark
5. New Zealand
6. Costa Rica
7. Switzerland
8. Sweden
9. Ireland
10. Jamaica

18. Canada

41. United States

72. Japan

Anyway, Wilders' case is now in court. Let's see how the judge rules.

[Takechanpoo]

差別は金になる(discrimination produces money)

[Samurai_Jerk]

freedumb of speech

Europe and Canada don't understand that concept.

I hope you understand that reality is a bit more complicated.

In the U.S. you can be fired for admitting that you're an atheist. Quite unthinkable in Europe.

Oh, and then there is the ranking of countries by freedom of press:

1. Finland
2. The Netherlands
3. Norway
4. Denmark
5. New Zealand
6. Costa Rica
7. Switzerland
8. Sweden
9. Ireland
10. Jamaica

18. Canada

41. United States

72. Japan

Anyway, Wilders' case is now in court. Let's see how the judge rules.

I'm not saying it never happens but legally you can't be fired for being an atheist unless you work for a religious institution. Freedom of the press is important but so is the freedom to offend which Europeans and Canadians are losing. The fact that the courts would even take this case is a problem. Anyway, get back to me when Switzerland and those Nordic countries achieve separation of church and state.

[Russell]

freedumb of speech

Europe and Canada don't understand that concept.

I hope you understand that reality is a bit more complicated.

In the U.S. you can be fired for admitting that you're an atheist. Quite unthinkable in Europe.

Oh, and then there is the ranking of countries by freedom of press:

1. Finland
2. The Netherlands
3. Norway
4. Denmark
5. New Zealand
6. Costa Rica
7. Switzerland
8. Sweden
9. Ireland
10. Jamaica

18. Canada

41. United States

72. Japan

Anyway, Wilders' case is now in court. Let's see how the judge rules.

I'm not saying it never happens but legally you can't be fired for being an atheist unless you work for a religious institution.

But in practice it happens all too often that people are ostracized, bullied, or severely discrimated when they come out as atheist. They are reviled even more than other minority groups like gays, jews, blacks, etc. in quite a few parts of the U.S. What use is a constitution if you have these attitudes?

Freedom of the press is important but so is the freedom to offend which Europeans and Canadians are losing.

In practice it is extremely difficult to get convicted for offending someone in the Netherlands. Recently there was a case in which someone was convicted for insulting the King in the Netherlands. That was based on an old law applying only to the King, and even the King seemed to disapprove, and promptly there were calls to abolish this law. Any other person being insulted would not result in a conviction. More sensitive is discrimination. If you openly discriminate (and that includes through words) or produce hate speech, that may have legal consequences. I would not frame this as a measure of freedom in a country. After all, you can also be sued for libel etc. in the U.S.

The fact that the courts would even take this case is a problem.

That's funny. Isn't the U.S. known for silly lawsuits?

Anyway, get back to me when Switzerland and those Nordic countries achieve separation of church and state.

Eh?!? Don't know what this has to do with freedom of speech.

BTW, in Switzerland they have separation of church and state since 1848.

If by "Nordic countries" you mean Scandinavian countries, then, yes, officially many have a state religion, but in practice it does not affect religious freedom in those countries. It certainly does not affect freedom of speech.

Obviously, I am mostly aware of the situation in the Netherlands, and can unequivocally state that the state has NO business to interfere with someone's religion.

And at this point it is good to realize what freedom actually is.

Is freedom the right to use drugs without risk being arrested? If so, the Netherlands has long been more free than the U.S.

Is freedom the right to cycle at the wrong side of the road? If so, Japan has long been more free than many other countries.

So, one has to be careful to label a country as "not free" based on some narrow measure; rather, one should consider the overall picture and the context in which rights can be exercised by citizens.

Added: SJ, get back to me when the U.S. have fully democratic elections...

[Samurai_Jerk]

By Nordic I mean Scandinavia + Finland since the Finns aren't Scandinavian.

What does freedom of the press have to do with a comedian's right to make fun of someone or a politicians right to openly dislike a group of people? I never said the US is overall freer than other countries. I'm the one who started a thread dedicate to criticizing all the ridiculous shit that goes on in the US. But what does how fucked up the US is have to do with the loss of free speech in other Western countries? That's what you call a red herring. You've been in Japan so long you're starting to argue like an Asian (Is that banned hate speech?). The ridiculous law suits you're talking about in the US are ridiculous but those are generally between ridiculous individuals. Not the state pursuing criminal charges against someone for something offensive that they said. Swiss cantons still have church taxes. That's what I was talking about. Anyway, I brought this is up because you implied the US has some legal prohibition on atheism which it doesn't.

Hate speech/hate crime laws are bullshit. Holocaust denial laws are bullshit. Blasphemy laws in the their various forms (religious defamation, etc.) are bullshit. Anyone who support them should be ashamed of themselves. Opinions should never be illegal regardless of how openly you voice them. Period. If you argue differently you are wrong.

[Grumpy Gramps]

Swiss cantons still have church taxes.

It's a service from the tax office to some churches to collect the membership fees for them. If you're not a member of one of the supported churches, you don't pay.

I don't think, any freedom is really free, there are restrictions - on religion or what you're allowed to say or do - everywhere, if you look closer. Switzerland is no exception; the "jesuites" were banished for about 130 years, children of gypsies were taken away from their parents (gypsies never had it good in Swissieland to put it very mildly) and more recently they held a referendum that puts it in the constitution that no new minarets can be built in the country If I'd dig deeper, I would surely find more, like the reason, why the Amish now live in the states instead of Switzerland and why the fuck the Swissies have stopped burning witches...

And there are anti-discrimination laws. You can't put a "Japanese/whites/ISIS only" sticker on your shop door, totally against free speech

[Samurai_Jerk]

Swiss cantons still have church taxes.

It's a service from the tax office to some churches to collect the membership fees for them. If you're not a member of one of the supported churches, you don't pay.

I don't think, any freedom is really free, there are restrictions - on religion or what you're allowed to say or do - everywhere, if you look closer. Switzerland is no exception; the "jesuites" were banished for about 130 years, children of gypsies were taken away from their parents (gypsies never had it good in Swissieland to put it very mildly) and more recently they held a referendum that puts it in the constitution that no new minarets can be built in the country If I'd dig deeper, I would surely find more, like the reason, why the Amish now live in the states instead of Switzerland and why the fuck the Swissies have stopped burning witches...

And there are anti-discrimination laws. You can't put a "Japanese/whites/ISIS only" sticker on your shop door, totally against free speech

I understand that but the idea of government administering a church tax voluntary or not is troubling. Though I do get the idea of wanting to preserve certain cultural traditions that might not be able to support themselves otherwise.

Anyway, my goal wasn't to get into a pissing contest about which country is better, freer, or more democratic. I made a very specific claim about one issue that I will stand by. Canada and a lot of countries in the EU are losing free speech in the name of preserving social order and protecting people from being offended. That kind of bed-wetting warm fuzzy Liberalism is a dangerous slide down a very slipper slope.

[Russell]

Swiss cantons still have church taxes.

It's a service from the tax office to some churches to collect the membership fees for them. If you're not a member of one of the supported churches, you don't pay.

I don't think, any freedom is really free, there are restrictions - on religion or what you're allowed to say or do - everywhere, if you look closer. Switzerland is no exception; the "jesuites" were banished for about 130 years, children of gypsies were taken away from their parents (gypsies never had it good in Swissieland to put it very mildly) and more recently they held a referendum that puts it in the constitution that no new minarets can be built in the country If I'd dig deeper, I would surely find more, like the reason, why the Amish now live in the states instead of Switzerland and why the fuck the Swissies have stopped burning witches...

And there are anti-discrimination laws. You can't put a "Japanese/whites/ISIS only" sticker on your shop door, totally against free speech

I understand that but the idea of government administering a church tax voluntary or not is troubling. Though I do get the idea of wanting to preserve certain cultural traditions that might not be able to support themselves otherwise.

Anyway, my goal wasn't to get into a pissing contest about which country is better, freer, or more democratic. I made a very specific claim about one issue that I will stand by. Canada and a lot of countries in the EU are losing free speech in the name of preserving social order and protecting people from being offended. That kind of bed-wetting warm fuzzy Liberalism is a dangerous slide down a very slipper slope.

Actually, you got yourself in a pissing context by saying these things about Europe and Canada without looking at the bigger picture. Quite common for Americans to say these things, without them knowing what they are talking about.

I maintain that the part of Europe I am from has more freedoms overall than the U.S., and that is true for most of Europe.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I maintain that the part of Europe I am from has more freedoms overall than the U.S., and that is true for most of Europe.

I don't necessarily disagree with that but it still doesn't address my point. I've noticed you generally argue like a politician and never actually stick to the topic.



I wasn't talking about the bigger picture. I was talking about the freedom to be openly racist, sexist, homophobic, antisemitic, Islamophobic, right wing, etc., the freedom to deny historical facts, or just the freedom to make an off-color joke and not have to worry about the thought police.

[Grumpy Gramps]

the freedom to be openly racist, sexist, homophobic, antisemitic, Islamophobic, right wing, etc.

I think, this has more to do with how you know how to behave in your own culture vs in some other cultural environment.

Years ago back in Switzerland, I worked for a large multinationsl in the financial sector. Whover was sent out to the US for more than just a couple of business meetings, had to take a week long (I think) course on how to behave [to not get sued]. Things like "better don't compliment a lady at your work place for a nice dress or ask her out for lunch, as she may report you to HR for sexual harrassment". Companies don't do these things for no reason, they cost money. They do it, because they save them money in the long run. I never had to take a course on how to behave in Asia or France or Holland or Sweden, common rules of politeness were always enough...

You know, where and how you can be sexist, racist, whatever in the US and where you better keep your mouth shut; and Russell knows, how to do it in Holland, but you might get yourself into hot water, if you'd try the same in each other's place.

[Russell]

the freedom to be openly racist, sexist, homophobic, antisemitic, Islamophobic, right wing, etc.

I think, this has more to do with how you know how to behave in your own culture vs in some other cultural environment.

Years ago back in Switzerland, I worked for a large multinationsl in the financial sector. Whover was sent out to the US for more than just a couple of business meetings, had to take a week long (I think) course on how to behave [to not get sued]. Things like "better don't compliment a lady at your work place for a nice dress or ask her out for lunch, as she may report you to HR for sexual harrassment". Companies don't do these things for no reason, they cost money. They do it, because they save them money in the long run. I never had to take a course on how to behave in Asia or France or Holland or Sweden, common rules of politeness were always enough...

You know, where and how you can be sexist, racist, whatever in the US and where you better keep your mouth shut; and Russell knows, how to do it in Holland, but you might get yourself into hot water, if you'd try the same in each other's place.

I didn't get in hot water when I lived in the U.S. though...

[Russell]

I maintain that the part of Europe I am from has more freedoms overall than the U.S., and that is true for most of Europe.

I don't necessarily disagree with that but it still doesn't address my point. I've noticed you generally argue like a politician and never actually stick to the topic.



I wasn't talking about the bigger picture. I was talking about the freedom to be openly racist, sexist, homophobic, antisemitic, Islamophobic, right wing, etc., the freedom to deny historical facts, or just the freedom to make an off-color joke and not have to worry about the thought police.

You are overdramatizing things, and I think that is because of your ignorance of European culture.

As I said, you need to consider the wider context.

The laws against hate speech in some European countries have a reason, and it is to stop people like Hitler to come to power. Personally, I think these laws are not necessary, because most people can nowadays clearly see when a person who wants to get elected is a nutcase. And the average citizen is extremely unlikely to get prosecuted due to these laws, so your worries about a "thought police" sound ridiculous. When I see the media manipulation in the U.S., I would be more worried about a thought police there.

What you pointed out is one specific aspect of freedom, without considering that freedom is more than that.

[Samurai_Jerk]

The laws against hate speech in some European countries have a reason, and it is to stop people like Hitler to come to power.

I don't give a fuck what the reason is. Wrong is wrong and you're wrong if you think hate speech laws belong on the books. Hitler came to power by stifling dissenting opinions and because most people in Europe hated the untermenschen as much as he did (and apparently still do). Maybe those laws aren't being abused now but once they're there they it's much easier for them to be abused.

My family fled Germany after Kristallnacht leaving everything behind and ended up stateless Jewish refugees in the Philippines living off Christian charity. My great grandfather died there far from home with nothing to his name and is still buried in a nearly forgotten dilapidated Jewish cemetery in Makati City. They escaped the horrors of the Holocaust only to live through the brutal Japanese occupation of Manila. My grandmother spent the rest of her life pretending to be a Christian afraid to ever tell anyone who she really was. There's probably a nice German family in Berlin living on property that should belong to my father, aunt, and uncle. I'd still defend the right of some Neo Nazi cunt to march down the street waving a Swastika claiming none of that ever happened. Anyone who doesn't is just as much a fascist as he is.

[Russell]

The laws against hate speech in some European countries have a reason, and it is to stop people like Hitler to come to power.

I don't give a fuck what the reason is. Wrong is wrong and you're wrong if you think hate speech laws belong on the books. Hitler came to power by stifling dissenting opinions and because most people in Europe hated the untermenschen as much as he did (and apparently still do). Maybe those laws aren't being abused now but once they're there they it's much easier for them to be abused.

My family fled Germany after Kristallnacht leaving everything behind and ended up stateless Jewish refugees in the Philippines living off Christian charity. My great grandfather died there far from home with nothing to his name and is still buried in a nearly forgotten dilapidated Jewish cemetery in Makati City. They escaped the horrors of the Holocaust only to live through the brutal Japanese occupation of Manila. My grandmother spent the rest of her life pretending to be a Christian afraid to ever tell anyone who she really was. There's probably a nice German family in Berlin living on property that should belong to my father, aunt, and uncle. I'd still defend the right of some Neo Nazi cunt to march down the street waving a Swastika claiming none of that ever happened. Anyone who doesn't is just as much a fascist as he is.

Seeing things black-and-white, ain't we?

Freedom of speech does not guarantee freedom. It goes further than that. As I said before, freedom of press is just as important, maybe even more important. There are loads of people in the U.S. who have been brainwashed by their media into thinking along the lines deemed acceptable by the establishment. And then you have the freedom not to be arrested when you smoke weed, etc. Again, it is the whole package that counts. Singling out one tiny obscure aspect in the laws of a country is pretty narrow minded.

But I understand where you want to go: you want to have the guarantee that your country will not glide into a dictatorship. Well, I have to disappoint you. You known Kurt Gödel? He is known for his incompleteness theorem, a work of genius in mathematical logic, but less known is that he also found a way the U.S. could be made into a dictatorship under the Constitution.

In order to get citizenship, Gödel had to pass various tests, go through an interview, and have a couple people vouching for his character. One of those people was Albert Einstein, so Gödel was made a citizen. After the citizenship was confirmed, Einstein talked about how Gödel's interview went. The officer conducting the interview mentioned how wonderful it was that the United States was not and would never become a dictatorship. Gödel, obviously pleased that the subject was raised, said that actually it was perfectly possible for the US to become a dictatorship. In fact, he said, he had discovered a loophole in the Constitution that made the entire thing quite likely.

It was at this point that Einstein broke in. Gödel wasn't being a cynic; if anything he was whole-heartedly embracing his new country and trying to point out something that might cause problems. He didn't know that that's the kind of thing that one does only when the ink is dry and the oaths sworn. He was made a citizen despite his attempts to show how the central document of American government was a road to dictatorship.

But even when there would be no loophole in the Constitution, democracy in the U.S. is actually very fragile. I just remind you of the problems with voter registration, hacking of voting machines, hacking of voting systems, and the list goes on. If you are really worried about freedom, please, start there.

[wagyl]

I didn't get in hot water when I lived in the U.S. though...

On the other hand, if they had had microcars in the US....

[Mike Oxlong]

Freedom of speech does not guarantee freedom. It goes further than that. As I said before, freedom of press is just as important, maybe even more important. There are loads of people in the U.S. who have been brainwashed by their media into thinking along the lines deemed acceptable by the establishment.

You may have read this before Russell, but it is still relevant to the freedumb of the press issue.

A Cult of Ignorance; Isaac Asimov

[Russell]

Freedom of speech does not guarantee freedom. It goes further than that. As I said before, freedom of press is just as important, maybe even more important. There are loads of people in the U.S. who have been brainwashed by their media into thinking along the lines deemed acceptable by the establishment.

You may have read this before Russell, but it is still relevant to the freedumb of the press issue.

A Cult of Ignorance; Isaac Asimov

Nice link, Mike. No, I didn't know this one.

Yes, if people cannot read, we are all lost. But by freedom of press I include all media, including audio-visual. Especially the latter is severely lacking in depth. No intellectual curiosity. I guess those "journalists" also have to pay their mortgages.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Seeing things black-and-white, ain't we?

Racist.

If the wooden clog fits, wear it. You definitely have illiberal tendencies.

Freedom of speech does not guarantee freedom. It goes further than that. As I said before, freedom of press is just as important, maybe even more important. There are loads of people in the U.S. who have been brainwashed by their media into thinking along the lines deemed acceptable by the establishment. And then you have the freedom not to be arrested when you smoke weed, etc. Again, it is the whole package that counts. Singling out one tiny obscure aspect in the laws of a country is pretty narrow minded.

But I understand where you want to go: you want to have the guarantee that your country will not glide into a dictatorship. Well, I have to disappoint you. You known Kurt Gödel? He is known for his incompleteness theorem, a work of genius in mathematical logic, but less known is that he also found a way the U.S. could be made into a dictatorship under the Constitution.

In order to get citizenship, Gödel had to pass various tests, go through an interview, and have a couple people vouching for his character. One of those people was Albert Einstein, so Gödel was made a citizen. After the citizenship was confirmed, Einstein talked about how Gödel's interview went. The officer conducting the interview mentioned how wonderful it was that the United States was not and would never become a dictatorship. Gödel, obviously pleased that the subject was raised, said that actually it was perfectly possible for the US to become a dictatorship. In fact, he said, he had discovered a loophole in the Constitution that made the entire thing quite likely.

It was at this point that Einstein broke in. Gödel wasn't being a cynic; if anything he was whole-heartedly embracing his new country and trying to point out something that might cause problems. He didn't know that that's the kind of thing that one does only when the ink is dry and the oaths sworn. He was made a citizen despite his attempts to show how the central document of American government was a road to dictatorship.

Cool story, bro. I have no clue what your point is though. Any country could slip into dictatorship. Nothing is ever guaranteed.

But even when there would be no loophole in the Constitution, democracy in the U.S. is actually very fragile. I just remind you of the problems with voter registration, hacking of voting machines, hacking of voting systems, and the list goes on. If you are really worried about freedom, please, start there.

I agree but that has nothing to do with free speech in the Canada or the EU.

You remind me of my right-wing Japanese friend (the it's-not-sabetsu-it's-kubetsu guy) who told my Pakistani friend to go back to his own country and fix the problems there first when he complained about the no gaijin policy at an izakaya he tried to go to in Shibuya. I guess 20+ years paying taxes in Tokyo, a Japanese wife and daughters, permanent residency, and fluent Japanese weren't enough to allow him to be critical of anything other than what goes on in Karachi.

Russell, Why don't you stop obsessing over the US elections and worry about what's going on in the Netherlands? When you fix everything there you can get back to Hillary.

[Russell]

I didn't get in hot water when I lived in the U.S. though...

On the other hand, if they had had microcars in the US....

I would've driven to the California desert and do the deed there. Not too many cops around...

[Russell]

Seeing things black-and-white, ain't we?

Racist.

If the wooden clog fits, wear it. You definitely have illiberal tendencies.

Freedom of speech does not guarantee freedom. It goes further than that. As I said before, freedom of press is just as important, maybe even more important. There are loads of people in the U.S. who have been brainwashed by their media into thinking along the lines deemed acceptable by the establishment. And then you have the freedom not to be arrested when you smoke weed, etc. Again, it is the whole package that counts. Singling out one tiny obscure aspect in the laws of a country is pretty narrow minded.

But I understand where you want to go: you want to have the guarantee that your country will not glide into a dictatorship. Well, I have to disappoint you. You known Kurt Gödel? He is known for his incompleteness theorem, a work of genius in mathematical logic, but less known is that he also found a way the U.S. could be made into a dictatorship under the Constitution.

In order to get citizenship, Gödel had to pass various tests, go through an interview, and have a couple people vouching for his character. One of those people was Albert Einstein, so Gödel was made a citizen. After the citizenship was confirmed, Einstein talked about how Gödel's interview went. The officer conducting the interview mentioned how wonderful it was that the United States was not and would never become a dictatorship. Gödel, obviously pleased that the subject was raised, said that actually it was perfectly possible for the US to become a dictatorship. In fact, he said, he had discovered a loophole in the Constitution that made the entire thing quite likely.

It was at this point that Einstein broke in. Gödel wasn't being a cynic; if anything he was whole-heartedly embracing his new country and trying to point out something that might cause problems. He didn't know that that's the kind of thing that one does only when the ink is dry and the oaths sworn. He was made a citizen despite his attempts to show how the central document of American government was a road to dictatorship.

Cool story, bro. I have no clue what your point is though. Any country could slip into dictatorship. Nothing is ever guaranteed.

But even when there would be no loophole in the Constitution, democracy in the U.S. is actually very fragile. I just remind you of the problems with voter registration, hacking of voting machines, hacking of voting systems, and the list goes on. If you are really worried about freedom, please, start there.

I agree but that has nothing to do with free speech in the Canada or the EU.

Well, it's the whole package that counts, isn't it? Singling out free speech doesn't cut it.

You remind me of my right-wing Japanese friend (the it's-not-sabetsu-it's-kubetsu guy) who told my Pakistani friend to go back to his own country and fix the problems there first when he complained about the no gaijin policy at an izakaya he tried to go to in Shibuya. I guess 20+ years paying taxes in Tokyo, a Japanese wife and daughters, permanent residency, and fluent Japanese weren't enough to allow him to be critical of anything other than what goes on in Karachi.

Russell, Why don't you stop obsessing over the US elections and worry about what's going on in the Netherlands? When you fix everything there you can get back to Hillary.

Because the U.S. plays such an important role in the world, this election affects not only Americans, but also non-Americans. And I am entitled to speak my mind, don't I. That's what free speech is about...

If I remind you of your right-wing Japanese friend who told others to go back to their country to fix things there, then I am surprised you behave in exactly the same way as that guy.

Added: I do not say that the Netherlands is perfect, or even better than the U.S., but at least they got that voting machine problem fixed: they are not allowed in elections.

[Samurai_Jerk]

If I remind you of your right-wing Japanese friend who told others to go back to their country to fix things there, then I am surprised you behave in exactly the same way as that guy.

That was the point.

[Russell]

If I remind you of your right-wing Japanese friend who told others to go back to their country to fix things there, then I am surprised you behave in exactly the same way as that guy.

That was the point.

OK, so you have been trolling me...

[Samurai_Jerk]

If I remind you of your right-wing Japanese friend who told others to go back to their country to fix things there, then I am surprised you behave in exactly the same way as that guy.

That was the point.

OK, so you have been trolling me...

No, I was pointing out how ridiculous you sound.

[Wage Slave]

I'd still defend the right of some Neo Nazi cunt to march down the street waving a Swastika claiming none of that ever happened. Anyone who doesn't is just as much a fascist as he is.

He might well be happy it happened and advocating round two. And would you afford the Neo Nazi cunt the police protection he will need to defend his absolute right to free speech? And that protection should be paid for by all of us? And the fact the police are diverted from other more valuable duties is a price all of us should be happy to pay?

[matsuki]

I'd still defend the right of some Neo Nazi cunt to march down the street waving a Swastika claiming none of that ever happened. Anyone who doesn't is just as much a fascist as he is.

He might well be happy it happened and advocating round two. And would you afford the Neo Nazi cunt the police protection he will need to defend his absolute right to free speech? And that protection should be paid for by all of us? And the fact the police are diverted from other more valuable duties is a price all of us should be happy to pay?

I don't think he's saying they deserve a police escort during all crazy activities....but yes, the police arresting idiots who can't resist using violence against even shitty people is a good thing.

[wagyl]

but yes, the police arresting idiots who can't resist using violence against even shitty people is a good thing.

I looked at what was written, then I looked at who wrote it, then looked back at what was written, and then looked back at who wrote it,...