Clueless Idiots

[Typhoon]

setting (and for the love of all that is good - enforcing) boundaries is important. kids need them. the latest trends in "parenting" are really quite sad to see in action - no boundaries, being "buddies" with the kids acquiescing to every little demand and trying to curry favour, or as seems to so often be the case in japan, complete and utter negligence.

Bingo.

[Mike Oxlong]

...If we take that same kid running around screaming and put him on a train, in a store, in a restaurant, or downtown in a shopping area... I have zero patience for this. It is in NO WAY acceptable to have kids running around screaming in non-kid-oriented public places.

What adds to the annoyance is that others with kids who are trying to impart decent manners have a harder time of it when this crap happens. Their own kids want to go join in the mayhem, and can't understand why they aren't being allowed to do what every other kid is doing.

[Mulboyne]

I have no children myself so I can't imagine what it might be like to be a parent. On reading Tina's point, though, I'm reminded of what my mother says to my father. He was always shocked if I ever acted up in public as a kid (he's probably not best pleased when I do so today) but she pointed out that he was at work during most of the hours that I was awake and I tended not misbehave when he was around partly because I was tired and probably partly because I wanted to spend time him. Mothers, on the other hand, tend to be with the kids more and are going to see a disproportionate amount of bad behaviour no matter how good a parent they are. Some of this will be in public where everyone else will be free give the mother severe looks of disapproval.

In the local community, other parents tend to be aware of who isn't keeping their kids in line because they can see a pattern of behaviour. I may not like hearing a young child screaming in a restaurant or getting under my feet in a shopping mall but I have no way of knowing if that is par for the course so I'm not going to pass judgement on the parents on the back of just that experience.

I'm sure all the guys who have given firm views here see their children more than the average Japanese father and are probably all good parents but I'm struck by the fact that the one mother who comments sees things in a slightly different light.

[Greji]

(he's probably not best pleased when I do so today)

Now I know why you hid him while your parents visited Japan. Kept him away from the comentators ehhh? Probably a good thing, I would have dimed you!

[GomiGirl]

Now I know why you hid him while your parents visited Japan. Kept him away from the comentators ehhh? Probably a good thing, I would have dimed you!

I got to meet Mulby's parents - more than once!!

[DrP]

One thing you forget quickly ^ everyone was an annoying kid at one time. So, with that in mind, payback is called tolerance. Child psychology is pretty easy once you get into it. The best thing I learned - when you want discipline, speak very quiet and stern. Children will naturally pay more attention to the quiet words since they HAVE to listen! They WANT to listen - they are driven by near instinct to stay close to their parents. Thats part of the crying thing - its just signalling you. Use loud language, conversly to praise and overall show positive response. After a very short time, your kids will learn that loud=good and quiet=dame.

[Greji]

[quote="GomiGirl"]I got to meet Mulby's parents - more than once!! ]

That's cause you're known to take bribes for structured testimony. That's probably why I wasn't given the chance!

[tidbits]

Sorry to dig this out again but this will be my last comment about this. Great to know there are people like Mulboyne who can see things in different perspective and don't judge too soon. Saying that one has ZERO patience for a kid's misbehave in public, to me is like saying children should not exist. Like I have said before, I think how the parents deal with the situation is more important. My son doesn't run and scream at the same time, and seriously I hardly see one act like this in public in Japan. but even if I see one, I am not worry that my son is going to behave like that child. There must be a reason, the child could be hungry, tired, boring, or actually a ADHD patient and I can imagine it must be real hard for the mother or the caregiver, and hopefully the child has an understanding father.

A sad truth in every big city in the world, if a child run and falls on your feet, the immediate concern is not how is he or she doing, but is to worry that you might get sued. And why some of us are so quick to blame the mother in the automatic revoling door accident, without being there and not knowing the real story? Oh yes, we are so torn apart by the child's death, when we are so easily pissed off by a child's crying....and then, we are wondering why some mothers can put their children in the locker.

[Jack]

How does the child protection system work in Japan? If it was in Canada, the doctor/authorities would very likely have social services check the home and parenting situation, ask around...maybe act if necessary. Does Japan have anything remotely like that?

Japan's got no lessons to learn from Canada.

[ramchop]

Yes kids can be as annoying as fuck, but have a little tolerance.

Don't you remember what it was like being dragged around a department store as a youngster? Did you calmly follow Mum around and sit in a corner as she tried on endless dresses, or did you escape with your brother and play hide and seek under the clothes racks?

Kids should not be confined to the playground. There's plenty of opportunity for you to avoid kids. Nightclubs, bars, late night shopping. You may see a department store as a public place, but it's actually a private enterprise. It's in their interest to have families there, because families spend money. I certainly don't think they're inherently unsafe environments. The Roppongi Hills incident was an unfortunate accident, but I'd wager you'd get just as many accidents in a supposedly safe playground.

Of course the screaming kid should be taken outside to calm down. Destructive behaviour should not be tolerated.

If I was to take my children downtown late on a Saturday night, there's a good chance they'd witness some obscene actions by "responsible" adults. Would they be within their rights to call these adults as annoying as fuck? No, they shouldn't be out at that time. If you don't like kids, try harder to avoid them, but don't blame them for being and acting like kids.

[james]

Yes kids can be as annoying as fuck, but have a little tolerance.

a little tolerance, yes. i don't think anyone here is expecting any kids to be completely good all of the time. as a father of two, i know how unrealistic that is. generally, it's not the kids i take issue with, it's their parents. two words: "discipline" and "control". they go hand in hand. "i'll buy you an ice-cream if you stop crying and yelling" is not discipline. nor are empty threats.

be upfront with your kids what the consequences of certain actions will be, follow through on said consequences and don't give an inch. it's not diplomacy and it's not a popularity contest. in the parent-child relationship, you are Supreme Ruler and the sooner your kids learn that the easier they'll be to have around. setting and enforcing boundaries also builds trust. discipline is not just making rules, it's keeping your kids in the know of where they stand with you. the lines of communication with adolescents are laid in the child's formative years.

Don't you remember what it was like being dragged around a department store as a youngster?

yes, it was boring as hell, but that by no means meant i was free to run wild, being a nuisance to others and store personnel while my parents were shopping.

Did you calmly follow Mum around and sit in a corner as she tried on endless dresses, or did you escape with your brother and play hide and seek under the clothes racks?

my mother, fortunately, never did this. if she wanted to go shopping for herself, more often than not she'd do so on a weekend while we stayed home with dad or played with friends. but on those occasions that we did go out as a family, say to buy some appliance, furniture or whatever needed both my parents present, yes, that's exactly what my brothers and i did. we sat quietly, stayed out of trouble for the most part and didn't wander off.

Of course the screaming kid should be taken outside to calm down. Destructive behaviour should not be tolerated.

agreed wholeheartedly.

If I was to take my children downtown late on a Saturday night,..No, they shouldn't be out at that time.

exactly. there is a time and place for kids (my personal view on that is "between 7.30-8.00" and "in bed") but it just seems to me there are far too mnay parents who don't understand boundaries themselves, likely because they never had any enforced as children.