Buying a vacation house in Japan?

[jake9115]

Alright ya'll,

I've been on FG for like 14 years or some shit, I first joined when I was a broke-ass college freshman in 2004-2005 and wanted advice about how to serenade a J-girl I met while having no money.

So, luckily with blood/sweat/tears, my situation has changed and now I actually make money instead of losing it on a daily basis. I married that same J-girl and now we have kids. I would really love to fulfill my dream of spending substantial time in Japan, maybe 4-6 weeks per year for the next 10-20 years, but would like to know what expats living in Japan think of the feasibility of buying a vacation house in Japan and having a good time.

I'm thinking of finding a rural setting / farm house with a small amount of land, and maybe spend 250K USD. I'm thinking Yamanashi / Nagano. The point of the house would be to visit twice a year, each time for three weeks. Ideally, I'd like know our neighbors, have a change of pace from our USA-based life of technology and suburbia, and experience small town Japan. In a perfect world, I would love to meet a nice J-family who would be interested in living in the house we buy as tenants, and just pay enough to cover property taxes (so super cheap rent), but keep the place fresh and deal with up-keep for 90% of the year. When we vacation to Japan, they would continue living there, and we would share the house. Win-win for both of us.

Has anyone ever done something like this? Is this at all feasible? Am I a stupid dreamer and should just blow money on one-off vacations of anonymity and Shinkansen trips to interesting prefectures instead of trying to set down another set of roots?

I would love to hear from expats with opinions.

Thanks FG!!

[wagyl]

My personal feeling is that this doesn't need to be decided in a hurry. I would even go so far as to say that the headaches-to-costs ratio would suggest that negotiating a good rate with a hotel for three weeks twice a year will be a better deal. Plus they do the cleaning for you. I would try doing the hotel medium term stay while you are seeking out the community which suits you (and they are NOT all the same in the way that they respond to strangers), and meanwhile do the sums. It may turn out that having the flexibility to see other parts of Japan next trip is enough that any slight cost of that option is worth it.

Personal experience in an old farmhouse in just the area you describe (but likely with more annual snowfall than you are thinking of) in small-town urban-fringe countryside, leads me to consider that finding the sweet spot you are looking for will be difficult. First, there is very little practice of rental of rural property, and the community is not used to how to deal with tenants. Do they regard them as potential long-term participants in the local society, or not? Participation in the rural community comes also with many obligations for community working-bees and community meetings.

Japanese Any families, whether nice or not, are unlikely to welcome a three week invasion from the landlord twice a year, filling the fridge with food and using the washing machine, queuing up for the bath. Would you let your landlord come and stay for three weeks twice a year at your place, and have them watch over how you treat their house? I had the situation where the landlord would sometimes pop over without warning for something the family was still storing in the house -- as I say, they are not used to the concept of renting -- and it became a real source of simmering friction.

A different option might be to arrange with someone who has a holiday house -- although that limits you to holiday towns like Karuizawa and the like -- to borrow theirs for three weeks twice a year. That will save you the hassle of the purchase price and maintaining it for the other 46 weeks.

[Wage Slave]

I think what you are proposing makes perfect sense - Holidays in Japan for your family should be a very different experience to holidays for tourists. And for the kind of money you are talking about you could buy something very good.

The only thing I might baulk at would be the idea of having someone live there - I am not at all sure that would work out given that when you need the place you really need the place. I would be more tempted to hire someone local, there are lots of pretty competent retirees around, to keep an eye on the place, visit every now and again, and prepare it for when you are visiting. You would also have to budget for someone to come and keep the garden/land under control. Things go seriously jungle in the summer around here.

Property tax is not that onerous - it's local income tax and national insurance that stings. Judging by the small town prices/farmhouse prices around here I think you could reasonably budget for a considerably lower capital spend and put aside some money for maintenance. Bear in mind too that land prices remain subdued outside the big cities. Plus buildings deprecate like cars do - After about 25 years even the best have zero value and if they are concrete actually have a high negative value. Personally I would expect land prices to continue to fall outside anything that looks like a good location in a city. Demographic pressure will see to it and actually is something you should take into account when buying - most countryside areas are struggling with a rapidly aging population and the young migrating away. A lot of the small villages in the mountains are pretty much 100% inhabited by oldies.

The other note of caution I would sound is that someone I know round here finally found a buyer for her parents' farmhouse and land but the locals vetoed it on the grounds the buyers were a long settled Chinese couple looking to move from the city to retire. This is a local house for local people mentality - even if it means it stands unoccupied and uncared for. I'm sure your wife and you will be able to do it but you might find it takes more than just showing up one day with the money and doing the deal.

[Grumpy Gramps]

Lots of semi-ghost towns in rural Japan. Maybe you can buy two adjacent houses, rent one out and make the tenants keep an eye on your side and look after your garden for a fat discount on their rent?

[Wage Slave]

Lots of semi-ghost towns in rural Japan. Maybe you can buy two adjacent houses, rent one out and make the tenants keep an eye on your side and look after your garden for a fat discount on their rent?

That's quite a good idea. For the kind of money you are taking about two houses is quite possible. Or you might well find a two generation residence built around a courtyard with a barn/workshop - there are lots of them still around.

[Russell]

Though a farm house in the Inaka can often be bought for much less than 250,000 US dollars, I still wouldn't recommend it if you use it for only 6 weeks a year. It's too much of a hassle, both administratively and the maintenance, let alone keeping the garden somewhat in order. Yep, stuff grows like hell here in the summer.

Add to that that you will be stuck in one place as vacation home for the rest of your life, unless you sell it, which will be difficult or impossible, even when taking a big loss.

So, my recommendation is rent a place somewhere for 3 weeks or so. I remember that Japan adjusted its laws such that Airbnb is only allowed when it is rented for at least one month or so. That may be the perfect solution for you and your family.

Alternatively, ever thought about renting a camping car here? It can be quite comfortable, yet give you sufficient mobility to explore many areas in Japan.

[wagyl]

Pssssst, Russell, look at the OP's post history.

I don't want to be thought of as someone who crushes dreams (and during the "sleep in the car in summer" thread I was supporting that dream) but I come from the situation where I was happy not to tie up capital in rural property with no prospects of 100% recovery of my investment, nor indeed likelihood of liquidating that investment in a hurry. Ghost communities are ghost communities for a reason, and people seeking to rent in them are phantoms. My landlord had been desperate in their search for a tenant, and they only needed one because the family was temporarily vacating the house and in 5-foot-of-snow-on-the-ground country they need the roof cleared and the interior heated to keep the house from falling to pieces, otherwise they could have avoided issues like what to do with the butsudan contents. I would also caution against tying caretaking of one property in with the lease on another: if the place is not maintained to standards it will be a nightmare to try to evict them, and meanwhile your place still needs maintenance.

I would still do the sums on what you can earn by investing your quarter of a million in the US and seeing how far that will take you with a holiday rental or a hotel (actually, a minshuku would suit your dreams perfectly), before making the leap.

[legion]

There are plenty of Japanese holiday home log cabins rotting away up in the mountains, left overs from the bubble.

[wuchan]

There are tons of half empty mansions near the ski mountains in Nagano and Niigata. You can get a 3dk for less than 7 million yen. Airbnb that shit when you are away.

[Takechanpoo]

how about 芙蓉台(huyoudai), which is near mt fuji and used to be a famous place of holiday homes but has recently became cheap one . and it has a caretaker/security guard by default.
https://www.fuyodai.com/untitled-cr9p

[wagyl]

In fact there is a log cabin being built in Niigata countryside right now that I can think of, with plans for it to be maintained and with a Californian sized bed, but it won't have much interaction with the neighbourhood, and at the current rate of construction you might be waiting a few years before it is finished.

[Wage Slave]

I heard a beach-side, 5 year old, 3 bed house in the wife's fishing/farming/clamming village on the fringes of a well known city on the pacific coast sold for a mere 4 million last year. Everyone saw the tsunami and everyone knows about the Nankai Trough. There is, by the way, a brand new tsunami shelter in the village these days.

[Wage Slave]

In fact there is a log cabin being built in Niigata countryside right now that I can think of, with plans for it to be maintained and with a Californian sized bed, but it won't have much interaction with the neighbourhood, and at the current rate of construction you might be waiting a few years before it is finished.

That will be an isolated, glamping style, luxury accommodation love nest - not really family accommodation. On the plus side, it might have imported wild flowers in place.

[wagyl]

In fact there is a log cabin being built in Niigata countryside right now that I can think of, with plans for it to be maintained and with a Californian sized bed, but it won't have much interaction with the neighbourhood, and at the current rate of construction you might be waiting a few years before it is finished.

That will be an isolated, glamping style, luxury accommodation love nest - not really family accommodation. On the plus side, it might have imported wild flowers in place.

You forgot to mention shit-slinging monkeys.

I'll believe the luxury, and the masonry stove, when I see it.

[Grumpy Gramps]

A few years back, we often went to the area of Mt. Yatsugatake. They had like managed little "villages" of cabins that you could buy, prices from about $20.000 and up. While you're not there, they would rent it out to tourists like us. Some of these 'resorts' even had good restaurants and you could get your French cuisine dinner delivered right to your cabin in order to enhance the experience of real wilderness living. Haven't been there for a while, so not informed about actual terms/conds.

[legion]

Yeah, those are the ones you see rotting away.
Companies had them too, a hangover from the bubble, they started dumping them a while back.

I really like some places in the Japanese countryside, but you have to go a fair way off the beaten track to find a rural ideal, if you want your convenience store and your family restaurants, you are going to be in the land of kei-car showrooms, pachinko, and billboards of that guy covered in bees.

[Russell]

In fact there is a log cabin being built in Niigata countryside right now that I can think of, with plans for it to be maintained and with a Californian sized bed, but it won't have much interaction with the neighbourhood, and at the current rate of construction you might be waiting a few years before it is finished.

You noticed that one too, huh?

[matsuki]

Already more interaction with the neighborhood than I asked for...but it's all been positive. That being said, contracting with a cleaning service is an absolute must. Mold, bugs, and mice oh my!!!

[twww]

Isn't this what inlaws's are for?

1 mth is enough for me. Wife stayed there for a cple of mths last yr... But the usual is for about 30 days/yr.

My folks have a holiday apartment on the Adriatic for when they visit. It's a 1 bed in a complex so the upkeep is minimal and the neighbour's are reliable... I

[FG Lurker]

In a perfect world, I would love to meet a nice J-family who would be interested in living in the house we buy as tenants, and just pay enough to cover property taxes (so super cheap rent), but keep the place fresh and deal with up-keep for 90% of the year.

Generally speaking (and I'm sure there are many exceptions) Japanese don't seem to do a lot of maintenance upkeep to houses they own themselves. Trying to find someone as a tenant who would actually do maintenance seems like it would be quite a challenge.

Overall I think you will be much better off using Airbnb to rent a place for a few weeks. Then you can rent somewhere different each time and see more of the country. You get most of the benefits without all the hassle of owning a place on the other side of the world.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

https://www.himawari.com/

[jake9115]

Hey guys, sorry for not responding for 2.5 years, but I really appreciate all of the thoughtful answers above. I spent a long time considering what was mentioned here and still haven't decided what to do. I will finally be coming back to Japan within the next year (pandemic allowing) and will probably rent a property for a month or so. But, I gotta say, I still want to buy a house and a camping K-car to use as a vacation home base. Definitely leaning toward something moderately rural and hiring a caretaker for most of the year. Being involved in the community is likely out the window, so I will probably need to find the right village and the right caretakers. I'll probably also lend the place out to friends looking for a similar rural escape. I don't care if it's a money losing venture; what's the point of all the work if not to have some fun. Can't take it with you!

[Taka-Okami]

Hey guys, sorry for not responding for 2.5 years, but I really appreciate all of the thoughtful answers above. I spent a long time considering what was mentioned here and still haven't decided what to do. I will finally be coming back to Japan within the next year (pandemic allowing) and will probably rent a property for a month or so. But, I gotta say, I still want to buy a house and a camping K-car to use as a vacation home base. Definitely leaning toward something moderately rural and hiring a caretaker for most of the year. Being involved in the community is likely out the window, so I will probably need to find the right village and the right caretakers. I'll probably also lend the place out to friends looking for a similar rural escape. I don't care if it's a money losing venture; what's the point of all the work if not to have some fun. Can't take it with you!

Bullshit, I'm getting my cash out and it's gettin cremated with me!