Fucked by Japanese landlords-your story wanted

[wagyl]

Even if you only use the evidence of the responses you have got so far, the reaction when they discover that the other occupant is not Japanese nationality is so abrupt that it is clear that this is a deal-breaker for those landlords (and yes, been there, done that, and know that there are very many of them. I have been reduced to tears by this process. You have my sympathy*.) Sure, you don't have her go in to the real estate agent wearing a "I have a mustang stallion" t-shirt, but if she is asked about the other occupant and his nationality, and she lies in her answer (and that is what

just have the gf find a place, flat out don't disclose I have a pet or that I'm foreign, and tell them to get fucked if they complain afterwards?.

means), that is not going to go well.

As to what the landlord can do to make things unpleasant ... are you new to Japan? Twenty consecutive Olympic gold medals for team passive aggression. They can delay organising for the plumber to come around to do the repairs. They can constantly sweep the passage outside your front door and give you the hairy eyeball each time you come and go. Search for and find fault with rubbish disposal, which has high potential for the ultimate weapon: numerous handwritten notices posted around the place. It they want to, they can take it to the level where you do not feel happy when you think "time to go home."

* My sympathy is stronger here because the usual reason given for not wanting foreigners, even if it is not the actual core xenophobic reason but instead the window-dressing reason, is that they fear communication difficulties. Smelly cooking is the other one. In your case, with the stereotypical food preparing gender member having Japanese nationality, you should clear.

[Wage Slave]

And there's your car. Scratches can appear. Tyre walls can be punctured.

[wagyl]

indeed, as someone told me once,

We pop open my trunk, open my toolbox, and I pull out two tire valve tools. I didn't need to say another word. By the time the cop heard the hissing and walked back over to the asshole's car, all four valve stems were removed. All the stems and caps on the roof of the car. I point out to the cop that nothing was damaged, all 8 of his parts are still there, and you can't arrest them for stealing air.

[matsuki]

Wags, as shitty as it is to say, those are all things I could deal with. Ignoring that type of shit is pretty much a prerequisite for living here, no? Also, I wasn't suggesting lie to the agents but simply not bring it up....from the past several weeks experience, no matter what info they collected from her, they have never asked and always assumed I would be Japanese. (contract would be in her name) If they asked and she flat out lied, I can imagine the explosion of shit that would lead to. Assuming I'm Japanese and finding out later, even with such racism being tolerated here, I imagine they would likely have a harder time making a stink of it since they never asked/specified no gaijin. Of course this is all with us doing the same, assuming "no gaijin" mentality from the start. (even though, like you noted, there will be those NG with me but ok with the situation if she is the one on the contract and living there)

And there's your car. Scratches can appear. Tyre walls can be punctured.

One of the main reasoning I want to move, besides the daily grind drive being eliminated, is I have free parking at the office. Wouldn't be parking at the rental.

[wagyl]

I know where you are coming from, that tunnel seems dark. Maybe you could tolerate that shit however high it escalated. But how much more comfortable it is to come home and relax in a place that is happy for you and your dog to be there. Better for you, better for your dog, better for the landlord. Better for the world. And probably a longer time period before you start posting to this thread again during your next housing search.

Maybe you will get through the sniff test of "it is a dual occupancy but only the woman is coming to the office." You can't know that until you try it.

[Wage Slave]

Wags, as shitty as it is to say, those are all things I could deal with. Ignoring that type of shit is pretty much a prerequisite for living here, no? Also, I wasn't suggesting lie to the agents but simply not bring it up....from the past several weeks experience, no matter what info they collected from her, they have never asked and always assumed I would be Japanese. (contract would be in her name) If they asked and she flat out lied, I can imagine the explosion of shit that would lead to. Assuming I'm Japanese and finding out later, even with such racism being tolerated here, I imagine they would likely have a harder time making a stink of it since they never asked/specified no gaijin. Of course this is all with us doing the same, assuming "no gaijin" mentality from the start. (even though, like you noted, there will be those NG with me but ok with the situation if she is the one on the contract and living there)

And there's your car. Scratches can appear. Tyre walls can be punctured.

One of the main reasoning I want to move, besides the daily grind drive being eliminated, is I have free parking at the office. Wouldn't be parking at the rental.

So back to Grumpy's suggestion. Using a proxy to secure the apartment is a good idea. Using your girlfriend probably isn't ideal but using your boss to rent a company apartment work work very well.

[Takechanpoo]

And there's your car. Scratches can appear. Tyre walls can be punctured.

it can be a persecution mania often seen among isolated gaijins.

[Wage Slave]

And there's your car. Scratches can appear. Tyre walls can be punctured.

it can be a persecution mania often seen among isolated gaijins.

Take a look around the car park at your local supermarket Tacky. It's not an uncommon way of expressing oneself around here.

[Grumpy Gramps]

using your boss to rent a company apartment work work very well.

No need to lie about who to place in there "first", either. Landlord doesn't need to communicate with gaijin, but can call the lovely OL of the employer with any issues. And they will be taken care of swiftly and the stinky gaijin's boss will know all about it right away, ha!

Also landlord doesn't need to worry about tenant's visa status. Even if the gaijin were an illegal immigrant or overstayer, landlord's contract is with the company, he has a clean slate either way.

[matsuki]

I'm definitely open to that possibility if the boss is but I'm not as confident it will alleviate the issue. Either way, can't hurt to try.

[Takechanpoo]

It's not an uncommon way of expressing oneself around here.

if that kind of things frequently occur to people, they will start to attach cameras to not only the front and the rear of their cars but also the side. but i havent heard that things in my neighborhood and in the internet forums. probably its peculiar to you or gaijins, unless its your persecution mania. just reflect on your daily behavior around your neighborhood. frown face, clicking tongue when encountering neighbors, bossy or contempt attitude and so on. in case of you gaijijn dudes, when you behave like that, the locals probalbly suspect if you dudes are 反日(hannichi, anti-japan).

[Wage Slave]

It's not an uncommon way of expressing oneself around here.

if that kind of things frequently occur to people, they will start to attach cameras to not only the front and the rear of their cars but also the side. but i havent heard that things in my neighborhood and in the internet forums. probably its peculiar to you or gaijins, unless its your persecution mania. just reflect on your daily behavior around your neighborhood. frown face, clicking tongue when encountering neighbors, bossy or contempt attitude and so on. in case of you gaijijn dudes, when you behave like that, the locals probalbly suspect if you dudes are 反日(hannichi, anti-japan).

Nonsense. You are just blinkered and living in a narrow little world. As I said, next time you are at a supermarket carpark have a close look and you will spot it.

[wangta]

Yeah, taka belongs to that category of people who mistakenly believe in Jp exceptionalism. The deluded ones range from most Japanese who are struggling with their country's increasing self-made problems and irrelevance, to silly bastards of gaijin who fall over themselves to defend a cuntry and society based on putting them on a supposedly lower level.

When something happens to Japanese in other countries it's always racism apparently but here when things happen to gaijin it is a misunderstanding or somehow we deserve it or it's natural. There's also some indication of the 'gaijin have to be oh so careful in Japan' - and actually the same applies to the xenophobic eastern Asian countries like Korea and Japan too.

Every year, countless Japanese and other east Asians run out on their debts and obligations in Oz, NZ, Canada, the US, UK, Europe. The cunts can get away with it more easily cause their family names and first names ususally are shared with millions and millions of others. That's a headache for authorities in our countries. I've worked with Japanese and Koreans who ran out out on rent, phone bills and just about everything in our countries. It was fine apparently because we are not Japanese or Korean.

So to other gaijin. let's not pull this oh pleeze don't make life hard for us gaijin by behaving dishonourably, badly or even independently and correctly regardless of what xenophobes think. That ol gaijin bullshit shouldn't be flying, let alone get off the gorund.

Matsuki - I found no problems renting in Tokyo. From my experience here, if you have the cash, you can rent. I chose to live in Adachi cause I can rent a big place for less than a one room in a better area. I like the convenience of the train to Nippori and the locals don't give me any problems - to date. I could have lived in other areas, better areas, and didn't have a guarantor - I woulda paid more for the rent. To me, no hoshonin, more money seems fair.

Roughly where do you live?

[matsuki]

So I asked the boss about putting it in the company name and he said he needs the tax attorney to take a look at it before he gives the OK. The way I see it, it's an expense he can write off if we pay in cash, or just zero it....but he's been audited before and is worried they will come in, demanding to know what's going on with it and demand some sort of tax for it.

Matsuki - I found no problems renting in Tokyo. From my experience here, if you have the cash, you can rent. I chose to live in Adachi cause I can rent a big place for less than a one room in a better area. I like the convenience of the train to Nippori and the locals don't give me any problems - to date. I could have lived in other areas, better areas, and didn't have a guarantor - I woulda paid more for the rent. To me, no hoshonin, more money seems fair.

Roughly where do you live?

I think it's not a money issue but the area. Where I currently live, in Nishi-Tokyo-Shi, there were some racists landlords here and there but there were far more choices and the open-minded oya far out numbered the racists. I'm looking in the Nakano/Nerima Area now and the racists landlords are far more numerous in this area. My boss claims it's due the recent influx of Chinese in the area. Whatever the reason, I'm not looking at cheap 1 room apartments but 2LDK/3LDK's and such. Boss thinks the gaijin + pet combo is going to make it impossible to find a place without hiding one or both of those facts.

[omae mona]

So I asked the boss about putting it in the company name and he said he needs the tax attorney to take a look at it before he gives the OK. The way I see it, it's an expense he can write off if we pay in cash, or just zero it....but he's been audited before and is worried they will come in, demanding to know what's going on with it and demand some sort of tax for it.

There are rules about this. There is a very specific way to do it, and there's a pretty clear black and white line about what is allowed and what is not. Google for 社宅. There is some official info about corporate tax and withholding here. But I am neither an accountant or a lawyer... so yeah, the boss should ask the pros.

[matsuki]

Thanks for that, I'll pass it on. He's thinking the place they built in his backyard may work since he fucks with the management there all the time and the property owner doesn't live in Tokyo or inspect anything. (woudl be the ideal location though I have no idea what size the places are there...)

[wagyl]

Omae Mona's tax link relates to the specifics where a company director gets given company accommodation. A few big companies do company accommodation for workers. The tax calculations are http://www.nta.go.jp/shiraberu/ippanjoh ... 2-02_2_2ne for when company accommodation is offered at non-commercial rates, which I doubt will be the situation here. It is a settled area of tax but one which your employer is wise to consult about beforehand.

A five second commute is great but you can't pull a sly sickie.

[legion]

Seriously, buy a place and you will never have to go through all this bullshit again. Getting a loan is your only hurdle and that is not so high. You are still young, by the time you are old you will be able to kick back and say fuck you, get off my lawn.

You will never have to deal with another estate agent & landlord again.

You will not be giving thank you money to people for the privilege of paying off their loan.

You will get tax back for the first ten years.

You will pay extremely low interest on the loan.

You will pay significantly less than rent. Obviously. Landlords are financing their loan, plus their soapland expenses, you are paying for their blow jobs.

Do you want to pay for someone else's blow jobs?

[omae mona]

I knew wagyl would show up with an answer 10 times better than mine!

Do you want to pay for someone else's blow jobs?

Hang on, does this mean that if I rent out some property to somebody else, I can use the rent I receive for that? Tax deductible? Wagyl, if I could ask you for links confirming this too, it would be great.

[wagyl]

Do you want to pay for someone else's blow jobs?

Hang on, does this mean that if I rent out some property to somebody else, I can use the rent I receive for that? Tax deductible? Wagyl, if I could ask you for links confirming this too, it would be great.

This does happen, but only in the same universe where traditional, formulaic expressions used in ceremonies mean that the Westminster parliament is completely beholden to the will of the monarch. The last king who tried that lost his head in 1649.

I can't grok Legion's viewtopic.php?f=23&t=30926&start=1080#p393118 with his viewtopic.php?f=10&t=22818&start=120#p393002.

I never looked into it that seriously, but even so, back of the envelope calculations suggested that I was better off investing money in my home country and using the proceeds to pay rent and have a healthy pile of spare cash left over (I've never had to pay to get a blow job). This of course depends on the deal on the rental you are getting, investment opportunities available to you in Japan and elsewhere, and what size deposit compared to what size loan you are talking about. This is definitely an area where everyone's mileage varies, and there are no hard and fast rules. Not buying made it much easier to move house.

[Yokohammer]

I'm sort of with Legion on this one, but it is very situation dependent.

If you're single and happy in a 40,000 ~ 50,000 yen per month apartment, it might be better to just stay there. But if you're a family and/or need to pay 150,000 yen or more for the kind of lodgings you want, then it is probably better to buy ... on the conditions that:

* 1) You buy to live, not to invest. I think Legion mentioned this before too.

* 2) This is kind of obvious, but buy only if you plan to be there long term. If you're only going to be here for a couple of years, just rent.

* 3) And sort of related to 1) above, buy in an area where property prices are low. This of course depends on your commute, if you have one.

* 4) You have permanent residence status, at least. I'm not sure that is a prerequisite for purchasing property here, but it just makes sense. You don't want to be in a position where sponsor/visa issues can interfere with your ability to live in your own home.

* 5) This is an "if at all possible" and not an absolute requirement: If at all possible, save your yen and pay cash, and/or borrow from family. Interest on a loan is still sorta like rent, as small as it might be. Avoid if possible. Stay within your means.

---

For example, 200,000 yen per month x 12 months = 2.4 million yen per year. Over 10 years that's 24 million. You can still buy quite a nice house for that in some areas, and it doesn't have to be an isolated town with no public transportation. In fact, some smallish but newly built houses sell for around that in my area. Second hand is better though. You get more space and avoid the new-house premium.

So let's say that after 10 years a tsunami comes along and washes your house out to sea. Assuming you weren't in it when that happened, and you didn't have a lot of priceless Chippendale furniture, you're still no worse off than if you were renting (other than you now have to find another place to live). If you had insurance, as you should have, you now have 10 ~ 20 million in hand to start a new life. In this situation you'll be very glad you didn't take out a crushing loan with humongous monthly interest payments, because the tsunami won't wash those away.

But if things go more "normally" and you decide to go back to Whereveristan, you can sell up and go. The only issue here is time. If you're in a hurry you can appoint a representative to take care of the sale for you and just go (not a "friend" if you ever want to see your money). Even if you get less than you paid for the place you're still way ahead of the game. As mentioned above, think of the money you're going to save, not the money you're going to make. Saved money is still made money.

The longer you stay, the better off you are.

A cautionary tale: Back during the bubble, when property prices were astronomically high, renting sort of made sense. But of course rent was high too, and over just the 20 years I lived in Yokohama I paid around 60 million yen in rent. I don't even want to think about the total if I add in the previous rentals in Tokyo. I am certainly not "rich," but I would be a helluva lot richer today if I had been in a situation, or able to maneuver myself into a situation, where I could have bought a place back then.

But circumstances are circumstances (and bull-headed obstinacy is a circumstance). It was only due to pressing circumstances and the maturation of the Internet, allowing me to work from just about anywhere, that I ended up buying a place up here in Tohoku in 2009. No regrets, other than not having done it sooner. And maybe that the garden is too damn big. I don't even count the 2011 earthquake and tsunami as a minus. We survived. This is Japan, it can happen anywhere.

Rent is money you will never see again. If your situation makes buying feasible, I personally think that is the smart way to go.

[wagyl]

The counter to "rent is dead money" is that "mortgage interest* is just as dead." Of course, loan rates are attractive in Japan.

* and capital loss, which was a very real phenomenon where I was located.

[Wage Slave]

The counter to "rent is dead money" is that "mortgage interest* is just as dead." Of course, loan rates are attractive in Japan.

* and capital loss, which was a very real phenomenon where I was located.

And there are other costs of ownership. Property tax for starters. And then maintenance/repair and associated costs. And insurance. And the fact that here in Japan the structure itself is a depreciating asset on top of the recent experience falling or flat land prices. Buying is not for everyone and every situation.

[Yokohammer]

* and capital loss, which was a very real phenomenon where I was located.

This is another reason to buy used.
You're basically throwing money away on a new house because of this.

[Yokohammer]

And there are other costs of ownership. Property tax for starters. And then maintenance/repair and associated costs. And insurance. And the fact that here in Japan the structure itself is a depreciating asset on top of the recent experience falling or flat land prices. Buying is not for everyone and every situation.

Property (fixed asset) tax is another reason to buy in a cheap area. I pay about 50,000 yen per year where I am. It can be eye-wateringly high in a "classy" area.

Maintenance and repairs are unavoidable, but don't even come close to rent in my experience. Another reason not to buy a high-cost house. A modest home won't cost much to maintain, unless it's crushed by a falling Osprey and you don't have insurance. You need to budget for this, but over time it shouldn't even approach the rent threshold unless you've bought a serious lemon. My house is around 30 years old, and I think I've spent about 500,000 yen on it in the 9 years we've been here, and that's including roof repairs after a very large earthquake that you've probably heard about.

Insurance: complete coverage (fire, flood, mudslide, theft, earthquake, tsunami, 80 year olds in cars ... the works) will cost around 60,000 yen per year, somewhat location dependent. Maybe 65,000 now. It's worth it. About 20,000 yen per year if you only want fire insurance.

[Wage Slave]

And there are other costs of ownership. Property tax for starters. And then maintenance/repair and associated costs. And insurance. And the fact that here in Japan the structure itself is a depreciating asset on top of the recent experience falling or flat land prices. Buying is not for everyone and every situation.

Property (fixed asset) tax is another reason to buy in a cheap area. I pay about 50,000 yen per year where I am. It can be eye-wateringly high in a "classy" area.

Maintenance and repairs are unavoidable, but don't even come close to rent in my experience. Another reason not to buy a high-cost house. A modest home won't cost much to maintain, unless it's crushed by a falling Osprey and you don't have insurance. You need to budget for this, but over time it shouldn't even approach the rent threshold unless you've bought a serious lemon. My house is around 30 years old, and I think I've spent about 500,000 yen on it in the 9 years we've been here, and that's including roof repairs after a very large earthquake that you've probably heard about.

Insurance: complete coverage (fire, flood, mudslide, theft, earthquake, tsunami, 80 year olds in cars ... the works) will cost around 60,000 yen per year, somewhat location dependent. Maybe 65,000 now. It's worth it. About 20,000 yen per year if you only want fire insurance.

Yep, I'm a happy buyer too but it all adds up. Before buying people need to think things through carefully and do their sums. For me the best thing about buying is the simple fact I can do what I like with the property and that any work I do/money I spend on it belongs to me. I've also done quite well financially but that is the icing on the cake rather than the cake and as Wags says there are plenty of other and far more liquid ways to do well financially if you tie up capital.

Regarding insurance. When I looked at it ten years or so ago the cover on offer for earthquake and tsunami was extremely limited - yes it's in the policy but the amount to be actually paid out was tiny. That applied to all the companies we looked at. Did we miss a trick on this? Do other people have effective cover?

[matsuki]

My PR is not yet secured and her income is overseas so a loan is not possible at the moment. I'm also not 100% committed to being a lifer thought I will definitely be her at least the next few years to finish up that shack I'm building. My thoughts on buying now were to find a fixer upper, remodel while living there, and if I decide not to stay, either rent it out or try to sell at a profit. The area I am looking at doesn't have much to offer in these types of places though and I think she's a but unrealistic in what to expect when it comes to size/price/convenience. (don't want to shoot her down but see for herself...she's already quite shocked at how fucked the situation is with rentals is here, and the racism)

Regarding insurance. When I looked at it ten years or so ago the cover on offer for earthquake and tsunami was extremely limited - yes it's in the policy but the amount to be actually paid out was tiny. That applied to all the companies we looked at. Did we miss a trick on this? Do other people have effective cover?

From what I've heard from the locals I work/play with, you have it right. All kinds of loopholes and "ifs" built in and depreciation rather than appreciation to consider. Basically, better to spend some cash on preventative measures than pray you can recoup a reasonable amount after shit hits the fan.

[Yokohammer]

Regarding insurance. When I looked at it ten years or so ago the cover on offer for earthquake and tsunami was extremely limited - yes it's in the policy but the amount to be actually paid out was tiny. That applied to all the companies we looked at. Did we miss a trick on this? Do other people have effective cover?

Yes, the payout for earthquake/tsunami is limited to about half the maximum payout for fire, etc. 20 million seems to be maximum fire payout for an average home. It would be 10 million for earthquake/tsunami damage, I think.

I can understand why insurance companies (rip-off artists they are) have to put a cap on home insurance in general: if you could simply pay a higher premium and get a very handsome payout, there would be a lot of suspicious fires, I suspect (that would endanger surrounding properties too). This happens from time to time even with limited payouts. It used to happen in Yokohama Chinatown quite frequently, I was told. Mostly stores that were due to be rebuilt. Of course all the neighbors would be warned that there might be a fire. Torch the place and use the insurance money to help finance a shiny new store.

But the lower payout for earthquake damage seems to be more of a risk thing. Still worth it, I think, especially after having the opportunity to observe homeowners who did and did not have earthquake insurance after the big one up here.

[wagyl]

I'm also not 100% committed to being a lifer

A dog is not just for Christmas. You have a bit of a commitment there.

Then again, you also have a widowed mother, and any further comment veers into Premium territory.

[Grumpy Gramps]

If I were young, I would rent. To live in your own (not investment) property is like an iron ball shackled to your ankle, slows you down and stops you from doing a lot of things, just because its there and its immobile and you have to take care of it. And you have to sell it, if you decide to move on. Never ending bureacracy. If you rent, you can just pack-up and go.

But then, if you'd like to stay in that exact spot not moving one inch for like over 10 years, then yes, buy, if you like the bureaucracy of it.

I would buy investment property. Or a farm. Or a mountain retreat. Something to do. Just to hang out, sleep and watch tv while munching pop corn, I'd rent; it's not worth the trouble imo.