Been discriminated against because you're an FG?

[Big Booger]

"Your honor, they were carrying sharp gaijin cards in their pockets, and one of them approached me and asked me something in English. In a state of panic, I pulled out my gun and blasted the four of them"

cstaylor,
YOu'd have shit your pants had 4 black guys threatened you with sharpened screwdrivers... Your ass would've been jacked...

I think Goetz should have been drafted to the NYPD. 4 guys ganging up on a middle aged man with sharpened screw drivers...

And from the wiki, it tells how three of those scumbags cleaned up their lives:

All of the youths have committed serious crimes since the original incident, except for Cabey, who remains paralyzed in a wheelchair. James Ramseur was convicted of raping, sodomizing, beating and robbing a pregnant nineteen year old.

[cstaylor]

I'm not going to reargue the Goetz case, but...

IIRC, he had previously been the victim of a mugging, was carrying an illegal firearm, and the four hoods asked him for $5. The screwdrivers were *not* brandished as weapons, so Goetz had no idea if they were armed or not when he started blazing away.

The one who was paralyzed was shot a second time after he was already down on the ground, so it was no longer self-defence at that point, which is why Goetz lost the civil case.

In short, he was avenging his previous victimhood, overreacting IMHO since he could have pulled the gun and warned them off instead of shooting, but since I never lived in New York City during that time I couldn't tell you if his actions were justified. The jury obviously thought so.

[L S]

Yes there is discrimination in Japan (yawn) and we all get discriminated against. I just think it is a bit of a time waster to worry about it. I honestly can't remember the last time someone's racism pissed me off on a personal level. Most of the people I've met here who are virulently racist here are half-wits and are that desperate that you need the respect construction flagmen can give you?

Yes rental agencies can discriminate, but let's face it how often do Japanese trash their apartments? I've known way too many Eikaiwa teachers who have. I'd discriminate too.

Also remember getting laid about three times as often as you would back home because your ugly as sin is also a form of discrimination too.

Thank you for trying to close this thread out...well said. This topic kills me because the blah blah blah has never changed. Fine, accept it and move on . How about a little self-introspection? How often do foeigners unfairly stereotype Japanese here? ...often in a way you would never do at home.

[homesweethome]

Yes there is discrimination in Japan (yawn) and we all get discriminated against. I just think it is a bit of a time waster to worry about it. I honestly can't remember the last time someone's racism pissed me off on a personal level.

Well maybe you can't but I certainly can. Maybe getting called names or spit on is not such a big deal, but by God in Heaven when they threaten and come after my kids I will not hestitate to bash the MF's head in. The judge may send me up for 100 years but I'll tell him "I did it cause they came after my kids, I ain't sorry and I would do it again."

Thank you for trying to close this thread out...well said. This topic kills me because the blah blah blah has never changed. Fine, accept it and move on . How about a little self-introspection? How often do foeigners unfairly stereotype Japanese here? ...often in a way you would never do at home.

I agree a thread in FG like this probably doesn't accomplish much except to waste electricity and web space, but there was something about a TV program at the beginning of this thread. I don't know if that was serious or not but if raising awareness is wrong and shouldn't be done you can argue for that, I don't happen to agree though. Unfortnately after a lot of 'self-introspection' it is a very personal thing.

[FG Lurker]

"Your honor, they were carrying sharp gaijin cards in their pockets, and one of them approached me and asked me something in English. In a state of panic, I pulled out my gun and blasted the four of them"

That does not match the original NYC case...

The 4 kids were all criminals, and with exception of the one who is now in a wheelchair and unable to do much in the way of violent criminal activity, all of them have continued to commit crimes. One of them continued his "career" by raping, beating, and robbing a 19 year old pregnant woman/girl. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz)

IMO the worst thing about the NYC case is that the guy was not properly trained to use the gun he was carrying. If he had been, those 4 kids would be off the streets in a much more permanent way.

I'm not pro-gun in general, but if someone feels the need to carry one and might get into a situation where they need to use it, they should at least get training in how to use it properly.

I also think that giving guns to the general populace here in Japan would result in complete and utter chaos. The worst areas of LA/NYC/DC would pale in comparison. You'd probably be safer in an Iraq war zone.

[cstaylor]

That does not match the original NYC case...

Yes it does. Can you show me the court transcripts where it is agreed that the four men pulled their screwdrivers on Goetz? That's Goetz defense, and IIRC it was not corroborated by anyone.

The 4 kids were all criminals, and with exception of the one who is now in a wheelchair and unable to do much in the way of violent criminal activity, all of them have continued to commit crimes.

Goetz couldn't have known that, and even if he did, its not his place to deal justice in that way. The kid in the wheelchair was shot in vengence, not in self-defense, and probably would have been shot to death had, in his own words, Goetz "hadn't run out of bullets".

One of them continued his "career" by raping, beating, and robbing a 19 year old pregnant woman/girl. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Goetz)

So that justifies Goetz's shooting? That's not how the law works.

IMO the worst thing about the NYC case is that the guy was not properly trained to use the gun he was carrying. If he had been, those 4 kids would be off the streets in a much more permanent way.

Are you sure you aren't from Jesusland? Four attempted murders, one paralyzed for life, over $5?

I'm not pro-gun in general, but if someone feels the need to carry one and might get into a situation where they need to use it, they should at least get training in how to use it properly.

Like not blazing away into a subway train?

I also think that giving guns to the general populace here in Japan would result in complete and utter chaos. The worst areas of LA/NYC/DC would pale in comparison. You'd probably be safer in an Iraq war zone.

Why? Because you could be a victim of a "subway vigilante", and Japanese on 2ch could congratulate themselves on how they had prevented future gaijin crime?

Wikipedia is not a credible source for all facts concerning a trial, especially one as charged as the Goetz case.

Should Goetz have pulled a weapon on those fourth youths? Absolutely. If the youths continued to advance on him, or pulled out their screwdrivers, should Goetz have fired at one of them? Possibly. Should Goetz have continued firing at the youths after his safety had already been established? Absolutely not.

[FG Lurker]

cst,

You raised some valid points so I did some more digging. Definitely the Wikipedia article did not cover all the angles, and overall could be said to be factually wrong.

I agree with you that he should have defended himself, and after reading other articles (various sources dug up through a Google search) I think you are right that he went too far. Especially the second shot to the kid that ended up paralyzed.

On the other side of things though, Goetz had been attacked once before. It is not unreasonable to say that being attacked once would make one respond differently the 2nd time around. It seems the first attack was the reason he bought the gun.

Are you sure you aren't from Jesusland? Four attempted murders, one paralyzed for life, over $5?

Definitely not from Jesusland. I won't even transit through Jesusland these days. I keep hoping the Jesusland slide will show signs of slowing down, but unfortunately it seems to be getting worse.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, I would say that the four attempted murders were not only over $5, but rather they were over the overwhelming environment of crime and fear that existed in NYC during the time that this took place.

I also think that giving guns to the general populace here in Japan would result in complete and utter chaos. The worst areas of LA/NYC/DC would pale in comparison. You'd probably be safer in an Iraq war zone.

Why?

Study Japanese history. Japanese running around in public with weapons does not seem to lead to a peaceful environment.

Because you could be a victim of a "subway vigilante", and Japanese on 2ch could congratulate themselves on how they had prevented future gaijin crime?

2ch is an interesting place. It has mellowed a lot since becoming more mainstream though.

Thanks for pointing out the holes in my previous post... Everyone needs a kick in the ass at least once in awhile.

[cstaylor]

On the other side of things though, Goetz had been attacked once before. It is not unreasonable to say that being attacked once would make one respond differently the 2nd time around. It seems the first attack was the reason he bought the gun.

Exactly. Along with the crime conditions of New York City during that time, I completely empathize with Goetz's position, as did the jurors. I'm sure the criminal history of the four youths was taken into account as well.

As I responded to Rob earlier, a repeat of the 1923 quake aftermath would probably happen if Japanese were packing heat.

[Hokgwai]

Well...imagine my shock when I tried to enter the infamous hip-hop club in Shibuya named Club Harlem....only to learn NO Gaijin allowed without a Japanese escort!

I was like, "Dude, I was born in Harlem you're gonna let me in right?"

"Sumimasen....."

Wow. It was like back in the old days when African Americans couldn't even get into the Cotton Club to hear their own music.....

[IkemenTommy]

Well...imagine my shock when I tried to enter the infamous hip-hop club in Shibuya named Club Harlem....only to learn NO Gaijin allowed without a Japanese escort!

I was like, "Dude, I was born in Harlem you're gonna let me in right?"

"Sumimasen....."

Wow. It was like back in the old days when African Americans couldn't even get into the Cotton Club to hear their own music.....

Nah, I think you didn't have a proper I.D. with you and they usually stress on keeping the guy/girl ratio low so you have to bring along some females.

I got in there the other week without any problem except I was with some people on the guestlist so I don't know. I wouldn't go there otherwise and pay 3000 yen cover just to see bunch of nippon whiggers who can't handle liquor.

[Mulboyne]

[IkemenTommy]

"If you are a foreigner..." sounds discriminating enough.

[Hokgwai]

you might be right about the boy/girl ratio thing....but naw, at the time I had my american expressless gaijin card....no dice....

[FG Lurker]

This morning I recalled a funny incident that happened to me 8 or 9 years ago.

At about 10pm I was walking from the station back to my apartment. I was walking down the sidewalk of a major road (Osaka's Chuo-Odori) in a decent neighbourhood that was fairly well lit. I was dressed in a suit and tie.

As I was walking along I happened to glance at one of the cars parked on the side of the road next to the sidewalk, and there was a J-female in the driver's seat staring at me. When she saw me look she immediately reached over and locked the passenger side door!

Nooo idea what went through her mind. I wasn't particularly close to her car, and I wasn't turning to go that way. I also wasn't staring at her or angry about anything. Guess she figured I was dangerous/unpredictable for some reason though. Gave me a good laugh.

[Hokgwai]

[Greji]

My Japanese mate who was born and raised in Japan with a korean father and J-mother still has to carry around a GAIJIN card ????
is that discrimination or what......

Nope!

There is discrimanation against FGs, but not for citizenship. If his parent or parents as the case maybe, have not elected to register him (or apply for) Japanese citizenship, it is a simple matter for him to do it. If his father did not have citizenship, then he is entered in his J-mother's family register for the marriage and so is your friend for his birth. It is a simple matter from there to citizenship, however, most Koreans do not do this as they do not want to give up their Korean citizenship.

[IkemenTommy]

How would Japanese like it if they came to New York and couldn't freely get into a place called "Club Tokyo" because they were Japanese??

If you're Japanese and visiting NY, why would anyone go to a J club? It's like going to the U.S. and having sushi and going to karaoke..

[FG Lurker]

How would Japanese like it if they came to New York and couldn't freely get into a place called "Club Tokyo" because they were Japanese??

If you're Japanese and visiting NY, why would anyone go to a J club? It's like going to the U.S. and having sushi and going to karaoke..

Maybe to get a good laugh?

[Hokgwai]

same reason why a Fcked Gaijin would to Japan to visit (eecch) Gaspanic or Club Harlem for that mattter....

[Big Booger]

I will say that racism is not that bad here... sure it's present, but it's not that overt. YOu don't see Japanese chaining koreans to pickup trucks and driving down the road dragging the corpse.

http://www.twotownsofjasper.com/latimes2.html

[Greji]

I will say that racism is not that bad here... sure it's present, but it's not that overt. YOu don't see Japanese chaining koreans to pickup trucks and driving down the road dragging the corpse.

http://www.twotownsofjasper.com/latimes2.html

They're having a shortage on chains. Give them some time!

[Buraku]

I will say that racism is not that bad here... sure it's present, but it's not that overt. YOu don't see Japanese chaining koreans to pickup trucks and driving down the road dragging the corpse.

http://www.twotownsofjasper.com/latimes2.html

They're having a shortage on chains. Give them some time!

that is a fucking horrible story, that poor African American

however racism isn't unique to the USA
just ask the Koreans that got butchered by Japan Imperials, or the grand-kid relatives that are looking for an apology for the kanto quake massacres

[Neo-Rio]

Let's see.

I work in a Japanese IT company and we were going to do a job for a Japanese bank (starts with M and has a ho in it). The whole team for the job, excepting me, was Japanese.

After the initial meeting I found that the whole team was hired, except me.

This was despite the fact that a few other team members were not as experienced as I was, but due to the fact they were Japanese - hey, no problem. They never said anything but it was obvious why I was singled out. I never had any money in their bastard bank anyhow.

I also work with a Japanese-Korean guy who was born in Japan, but has one Korean parent. He, too, has to carry around a gaijin card. We spoke about the incident later and he said that in order to get anywhere as a gaijin in Japan is to have some major credentials... which he managed to get since he's worked here all his life and is older than me by a good 10 years.

[omae mona]

I will say that racism is not that bad here... sure it's present, but it's not that overt. YOu don't see Japanese chaining koreans to pickup trucks and driving down the road dragging the corpse.

http://www.twotownsofjasper.com/latimes2.html

They're having a shortage on chains. Give them some time!

I still don't think they would do it. It would be discourteous to other drivers.

[amdg]

After the initial meeting I found that the whole team was hired, except me.

What kind of 'team' is that where they just left you hanging? Didn't anyone say anything?

[ichigo partygirl]

worst discrimination ive had from japanese was in NZ. i went to the big duty free department store to get me some alcohol and the like. So many free japanese staff doing nothing. Did they help me, no!, did they even acknowledge me, no!! As soon as an Asian looking perosn walked in they fell overthemselves to help them

As for in Japan not too much worth noting. Heres hoping it stays that way

[Tsuru]

Apart from the annoying stares I get on the trains, not much really.

Always get a fair deal at stores, never refused anywhere. Must be my good looks...
Yeah, either that or the fact that I don't actually have to make a living in Japan..

[Mini_B]

I agree with Pongi - violence is the only answer. Legalize guns in Japan! I've always wondered how good those guys at the banks are with their sticks!

[/quote]

[jingai]

worst discrimination ive had from japanese was in NZ. i went to the big duty free department store to get me some alcohol and the like. So many free japanese staff doing nothing. Did they help me, no!, did they even acknowledge me, no!! As soon as an Asian looking perosn walked in they fell overthemselves to help them

Hi Ichigo, I had the same experience in the rotten tourist trap known as Saipan. After a day or two of this I refused to speak any English, which confused people enough to improve my situation.

[blackcat]

The japanese wrote the book on discrimination, and cunning covert discrimination is thier Forte.

" I was walking along I happened to glance at one of the cars parked on the side of the road next to the sidewalk, and there was a J-female in the driver's seat staring at me. When she saw me look she immediately reached over and locked the passenger side door!"

HA identical thing happened to me too..

I started work at a College that wanted me to join the Ultra Facist Japan Bank, I walked into a major city branch with my wife (japanese) and was greeted by 90yo Captain War Criminal who said no Gaijins can use this bank.

The prick didnt even use GAI gokojin, just gaijin, I could have been just waiting for her, etc. anyway after pushing the staff and them making phone calls to discover 100+ honkies were UFJ members just a few ks away.

Anyway I didnt really feel discrimination so much, just unprofessional rude service.

Thats all thats happened to me...but many people I know have shocking stories.

The J gov. media are shocking. I saw on TV tonight the news searching for some dick was shooting a BB gun into other cars....they had to play up the fact that the slug was .5 mm bigger than in japan...so it had to come from USA/Europe

A week or so ago I saw UNREAL RACISIM even for japan.

A daytime TV show on the life of surf life savers at some beach in Japan, they spotted several guys taking pics of girls on the beach in the water etc. some were dressed in jeans backpacks with about 3 hidden cameras and clearly looking for sleazy shots...they were talked to politely and escorted to the lifesaving station.

Then another guy looked a bit sus...taking a movie camera pointing it at the water...they talked to him...EEEEHEHHEHEH chinese!!!

yes he was chinese...was that the reason 30+ people surrounded him!?
yep then the brave J cops came and took him away.
In no other case were the cops called and all the j guys looked far more sus in their jeans and telephoto cameras.

after all the sleazy/hidden camera Jguys the Lsavers saw they couldnt get over 1 chinese guy..in swimwear with a video camera in the open.
fuckwits

Finally It is BULLSHIT some here think korean japanese arent discriminated against, yes citizenship is one thing, but these people were born here and often their parents and parents B4 them...they have to carry a FG card like a just got of the plane IT fuck or Teacher tool...until just a few years ago they had to be fingerprinted, and could be detained for no charge for 23 days(like us).

The J gov were recommended by the yanks when the constitution was made that all japanese from different decent should be given auto citizenship (fuck they suffered enough didnt they!!) 364 days later when the bill was to become law the Cunt J gov. pulled it off and said, they should be considered "temporary residents for now" that "for now"has been 50+years

The JOKE is most of there pumpkin headed brainwashed fucks dont have a clue where they came from.

My wifes great-grandfather (fathers side) was a rich merchant during Japans colonial rule of Korea, he was married in japan but got a korean women pregnant in Korea, decided HE wanted the baby so had her brought to japan to have to it delivered...as soon as the baby was born the mother was sent back to korea(never saw her child again) oh yeah fucking lovely/kind people japs.

the family register (kouseki touhon) simply stated "boy" her family never knew this secret....but finally found out many years later.
point is he has a korean background and so does his son (my father in-law) but does he carry a FG card? will the hoards of stick toteing scum hunt him down after the next earhquake, or suspect him if a bike is stolen?

the fact is MANY japanese have a similar situation, but its only paperwork and bullshit really. The system doesnt want "halfves"unless they can be easily ID`d. japanese have an assimilation mindset

Some Japanese Duty free shops in Australia ADVERTISE the shop is ONLY FOR JAPANESE..

And scientific reseach labs in the US will ony allow J passport holders entry..

leopards dont change their spots.