Reverse culture shock

[Reddeville]

I think it comes down to your reasons for leaving Japan.

I`m leaving this Monday (!) and I`d like to thank Taro for having such a cool site that lets posters go at each other without the heavy hand of censorship intruding.

Though there are a few would be censors on these forums...

I spent the best part of 9 years here (never posted before on any site but Taro`s is special!) and I`m going back to my home city on the West Coast. I`m going to an apartment that will be paid off by the end of January, a new job, and a lifestyle that I`ve missed more and more. There won`t be any reverse culture shock for me in

Driving on FREEways - the troll who followed me around wil be paying his Japanese tolls. Enjoy!

Having a big apartment which even if I was paying rent, would be way cheaper than the cramped, unrenovated, over-priced thin walled trash accommodation I`ve lived in during my time in Japan.No key money, gift money and all those `charges` that are robbery without violence in this country.

A real pension that I paid for and will get back.

Having neighborhood associations that are FREE and voluntary - and do a damn good job. Having neighbors that don`t get in your face, don`t try to run your life, talk to you when they want your money for their own goddamned selfish purposes.

Being able to call the cops to tell peeps to keep their music down - AND do something about that shit of a dog screaming all night and early morning. In all the places I`ve lived in during my life in Japan, people didn`t and don`t give a fuck about their dog`s noise, even in the early hours of the morning.

Paper in public toilets - cmon, is it that fucking expensive to put some paper in toilets in Japan? More toilets don`t have it than do. No NHK bullshit right wing propaganda. PBS rocks - and it`s worth every cent!

Public debate about just about anything. No signs saying `Foreigners obey the law` plastered around by local authorities, no signs saying `No gaijin`. No denial of the growing homeless, the real crime rate, the crimes committed by Japanese, Burakumin, all the dirty secrets here with the Japanese pointing to the speck in `Gaijin`s` eyes while ignoring the planks protruding from their own.

Believe me, there aint no reverse culture shock in getting away from this crap and more I could write if I had time.

To the Lurking Troll
who followed me around - enjoy Japan buddy. The consumption tax is gonna rise, start bending over. There probably won`t be a pension for you to draw on - good luck. City tax, health insurance are all gonna skyrocket - eat it.

[American Oyaji]

Red, I'll say one thing.

Even if you're looking forward to going home, it's not going to be everything you envision it to be.

There WILL be some mental discontinuity that will throw you off of melding with your surroundings, no matter how much you think there won't be.

The statistics are against you.

I mean, if 99 out of 100 people from various stays of 1 - 10 years say that had reverse culture shock, why do you think it would be any different for you?

But in any case. Good Luck, and God Bless.

[oyajikun]

I've only been here for 8 years, and I'm confident that I would be tarred and feathered if I ever went back to my old hood in San Diego.

[FG Lurker]

I`m leaving this Monday (!) and I`d like to thank Taro for having such a cool site that lets posters go at each other without the heavy hand of censorship intruding.

Good riddance to bad rubbish. Japan will be a better place with one less self-righteous loser in it.

Though there are a few would be censors on these forums...

[... a bunch of rambling drivel snipped out ...]

To the Lurking Troll who followed me around - enjoy Japan buddy.

You're flattering yourself again. I've never followed anyone around on here or anywhere else, and certainly not you.

The consumption tax is gonna rise, start bending over. [...] City tax, health insurance are all gonna skyrocket - eat it.

Taxes are soon going to be heading up in the US too, "buddy". Someone is gonna have to pay for all the idiocy that is going on there, and soon. The coming real estate crash is also going to create some very difficult, uh, "issues" for the US, especially your beloved West Coast.

There probably won`t be a pension for you to draw on - good luck.

Anyone who depends on a pension system is nothing less than a financial fool. By depending on a pension system a person is literally planning to be poor in their retirement years. I'll pass on that kind of financial "plan", thanks.

(I'll even explain that to you so you don't miss the point, although many people can't understand it even when it is explained. Generally speaking people who depend on pension systems are planning for their monthly income to decrease after they retire. They are planning to have a lower income and therefore be poorer in their retirement years than they are in their earning years. Not me. I am building up assets that provide a steady income stream for me, whether I work or not. When I "retire" (likely in my mid-40s) my income will continue to increase over time.)

Anyway, have a great time back in Jesusland... And hey, don't let the door smack you on the ass on yer way out.

[Greji]

Good riddance to bad rubbish. Japan will be a better place with one less self-righteous loser in it. -snip-... And hey, don't let the door smack you on the ass on yer way out.

Hey Lurk! Did you just call that Mother a Mother? Wow!

[Mennon]

We learn to live
and we learn to give each other
what we need to survive,
together alive.
Life is what happens to me while I'm busy making other plans.
I don't like it here, and I don't like it at home. Can I like it anywhere? Why did I leave? Why do I stay? Why don't I leave? Why don't I go back?
What am I doing here? Why did I come? What did I do there?

All these questions compete for my attention.

[omae mona]

No NHK bullshit right wing propaganda. PBS rocks - and it`s worth every cent!

Reddeville - speaking as somebody who travels back to the U.S. frequently, let me warn you to not be surprised when next year, PBS officially changes its name to "The Yanni Television Network" to more accurately reflect its core mission.

Seriously, be careful about attributing your unhappy circumstances in life to the people and culture around you. I think without exception, everybody I know who was successful and happy in the U.S. was successful and happy in Japan. Everybody who was unsuccessful or unhappy in the U.S. had the same problem in Japan (but they felt better in Japan because they had somebody else to blame). I'm not saying that this applies to you (I don't know you) - but it's the pattern I've seen over the years.

[Reddeville]

Mennon - cool post. Wow, gbooth, living in Japan sure has messed with your judgement hasn`t it?

Omae mona - just saw your post then. Nah, I`m cool because living here for almost 9 years showed me increasingly the ugly side of Japan. It`s uglier to me because of the hypocrisy, and the constant denial by this society. There`s no culture of opposition, no culture of diverse voices expressing themselves, etc.

The ugly side of Japan isn`t revealed to a lot of people who stay for even 3 years, and it`s often (not always) denied by those who are here long-term because they just couldn`t live here if they admitted it. Sorry - just read your post again and the comments about success. I don`t agree but I`m not disrespecting you.

One of my bosses when I first came to Japan had his own business and it was doing great but packed it in because of the stresses of being a foreigner in Japan. He has another business in Cali. Other people I knew had Japanese business partners but found they were being left out of the loop even when their money was funding the business - it was like a glass wall all the time for them. They are happy and successful back in the US and UK respectively.

Other people come here after working successfully in their home country but find the image the Japanese project very different from the reality. The fact they went home doesn`t mean they are not successful people and in some cases they became very opposed to the system here, especially the dirty secrets here.

I`ve worked successfully here for nearly 9 years - I`m going back to another successful life with a good job and an apartment nearly paid off. I have to add that I have Japanese friends in my home city and not one of them wants to return to Japan or is really looking forward to returning to Japan. Inevitably some are going to have to do it but others are looking at permanent residency etc.

Their reasons don`t differ so much from some of mine though they don`t express it the same way. I know they like the sense of privacy in the US, they say they feel much more free, can have their own life, and they also make the point that in their home country things are done again and again and never changed even if the purpose has gone or the custom is bad.

The Lurking Troll`s bitterness and insecurity with his own life in Japan manifests itself again - y`know, the self-appointed speaker for Japan (the Japanese won`t like that - you`re just another gaijin to them and they`ll take your money and contribution to this society but won`t thank you or respect you for it but make you bend over even more ).

Good to see the life I described and what I`ve lined up for myself is just throwing into your relief your own sad one here. Keeping sucking it up, keep eating it, and hold on to something strong (that means your sense of reality aint gonna provide it ) when you take it up the ass even more in Japan over the next few years.

Couldn`t happen to a nicer Troll! Right now the feeding stops. See ya, and enjoy the system here feeding off you Troll!

[oyajikun]

somebody needs a hug..

[Greji]

somebody needs a hug..

From the front or back?

[oyajikun]

somebody needs a hug..

From the front or back?

Are you already drinking? I still have to wait another hour..

[FG Lurker]

Right now the feeding stops. See ya, and enjoy the system here feeding off you Troll!

As with many things you post, you're rather far from reality. I've been feeding you, Red, although it seems you're not quite bright enough to see what everyone else does.

omae mona said it very well with regards to success. To put it a lot less diplomatically, you're a bitter loser here in Japan, and chances are you're still going to be a bitter loser when you get home. Your complete failure will just be a lot harder to hide at home, although I'm sure you'll continue to try to blame your shitty situation in life on anyone & anything except, of course, yourself. Yeap, the culture of victimhood. Gotta love it.

[Greji]

somebody needs a hug..

From the front or back?

Are you already drinking? I still have to wait another hour..

Just ordered another double!

[American Oyaji]

Well, if what he says is true, i.e. apartment paid for and already has a job set up, he should be OK.

Thats two worries out of your bonnet.

[james]

why the insistence that anyone who seems happy and well adjusted here is "insecure"? you seem to toss that word around a lot without really knowing people and seem to see *only* the negative aspects of japan. with that outlook, you're gonna be screwed wherever you go.

and sure, a lot of the "ugly japan" seems to have reared its head directly at you, but there's a lot of "ugly america" back home so consider yourself forewarned. you seem to have this rather utopic and polyanna view of the states.

i'm happy here and many others are so go home and shit on your own plate.

[hakuman]

The ugly side of Japan isn`t revealed to a lot of people who stay for even 3 years, and it`s often (not always) denied by those who are here long-term because they just couldn`t live here if they admitted it.

I have been here five years, and I have seen the ugly side of Japan you speak of. Its there, no need to deny it. Personally, I just dont care though.

I was in a bar the other day, and on the menu was written in Japanese "table charge, 500 yen/person". In English, right beside it, was the following diagram "table charge --->foreigner ---> no charge ---> lucky!"

For every shatty ass sign out there saying foreigners aren't allowed in the joint, there is one saying we dont have to pay cover charge. For every person trying to get money out of you, there is an izakaya with 189 yen pints. The shitty stuff in Japan, its shitty. The good stuff is good. I myself would prefer to not waste time turning bitter about the shitty stuff, when I can spend my time enjoying the good stuff.

Reddeville, I think I told you in a thread like 7 months ago, that if you didn't like the country, you should go home. Glad to hear you are finally gonna make it. Sounds like its gonna be good for you. Enjoy!

[Mennon]

Ever think that the Japanese have the same opinion?
Christ, at least we have options. But what are you gonna do if you are japanese and you have to pay 8 or 9man a month to live in a half decent place? or pay 2man for decent health insurance? Go without? Suck up tp your asshole boss, or lose your job? They have to do it.

They know all about it. Have done since they were kids. And BTW wining and bitching about it doesn't constitute "doing something about it" like it might back home.

It's the baby-boomers, same as in our country. But here, they grew up starving, worked themselves sick for forty years, and now they are watching everything crumble. No wonder they are desperate control freaks.

Man, stick around. When these old fuckers die out, then this place will get cookin'.

[canman]

I have been reading these posts and find them very telling. We gaijin are some of the most opinionated people on the face of the earth. Now don't get me wrong, when it comes to complaining about Japan I'm up there with the best of them. But it just struck me yesterday as I was in the restroom at a local family restaurant. I washed my hands and low and behold there were no paper towels, and I remember that Reddeville made a big point mentioning that. I know he had a lot of other complaints, but that was on ehtat stuck in my head. After using the hand dryer that was there, I was thinking, so who says we are right to complain about the lack of paper towels. THis is not our country. Yes we have decided to live here, but that's life. Is it such a major inconvenience to us. Then I started to think about all the other things I like to criticize and felt really studid for acting like such a little child. Yes there are problems and yes there are things that piss me off(like paying 4000 yen for a replacemnt wiper for my Voyager). But I have chosen to live here. Nobody forced me to. Now Reddeville is back in his native San Francisco and I hope he is likeing it, because I think he should never leave again with an attitude like he had. How he put up with living in Japan for nine years is beyond me. ANyway sorry for the rant but I just wanted to express how I felt on such a lovely warm fall day.

[Mulboyne]

The lack of toilet paper in public conveniences dates back to the oil shocks. There was an acute shortage of toilet paper at the height of the shocks in the 70s and people routinely stole what they found in any facility. Riots accompanied any rumours of a new shipment of paper to a local store. Amidst this widespread disorder, local governments, shops, railways etc all eventually decided not to supply any more paper and that was that. The tissue advertsing business was born.

I did hear that the Tokyo metro decided to recommence supplies during the 2002 World Cup.

[jingai]

The lack of toilet paper in public conveniences dates back to the oil shocks. There was an acute shortage of toilet paper at the height of the shocks in the 70s and people routinely stole what they found in any facility. Riots accompanied any rumours of a new shipment of paper to a local store.

Thanks for the history lesson! I believe one of the last Jingi Naki Tatakai films was about this, when organized crime started extorting fees from people in restrooms for toilet paper. It was brutal!