Fuck gaman...

[Coligny]

"Gaman," "ganbaru," and "shoganai" and their variants need to be banned. Carry around a cattle prod and zap your Japanese friends and family every time you hear those terms uttered, because they're cognitive kill switches. Would you tolerate a Westerner who went around saying, "Well, it is what is," or, "Well, what are you gonna do?" repeatedly, endlessly, like some kind of moronic mantra? No way! You'd slap them silly.

Dood... I wont take that from a 5 years old unless he was a spec-ed kid...

[IparryU]

Dood... I wont take that from a 5 years old unless he was a spec-ed kid...

ok... would you take that from your wife? with all dem experiments you do around the house (or with ur cats) i be quite sure that you would tollerate her to have your camera room and what not... hell i still do tolerate it from my wife... but with friends i quickly tell them to stop bein a puss and go for the gold!... whatever that means.

[Catoneinutica]

Dood... I wont take that from a 5 years old unless he was a spec-ed kid...

I dunno balla, I can think of another culture that's almost as riven with internal contradictions - the kind that, if you thought about them too deeply, would cause you to blow your top and blast neurons into the troposphere a la Fukushima.

[Coligny]

I'm still packing heat from all the crap going on... might blow of one day...

Latest crap these days...

Me:"we need a company to get rid of all the old crap to clean up the place"
Her:"let's buy a new house" (no, really, I'm not making that shit up...)

If you saw Idiocracy... I'm getting closer everyday to the great collapse of the gigantic mountain of trash...

Thinking of wich... this gaman thing is exactly like the Branwdo:

[cabinet has been debating putting water on the plants instead of Brawndo]
Pvt. Joe Bowers: What *are* these electrolytes? Do you even know?
Secretary of State: They're... what they use to make Brawndo!
Pvt. Joe Bowers: But *why* do they use them to make Brawndo?
Secretary of Defense: [raises hand after a pause] Because Brawndo's got electrolytes.

(you have to see the movie to understand the level of despair in this quote)

[Dreamy_Peach]

"Gaman," "ganbaru," and "shoganai" and their variants need to be banned. Carry around a cattle prod and zap your Japanese friends and family every time you hear those terms uttered, because they're cognitive kill switches.

I very much agree with this. In the immediate period after the earthquake all you heard was "gaman" or "gambaru". They are such empty phrases, but they are also so conservative just implying to me that they will continue as normal, maybe try a little bit harder.

It doesn't suggest any kind of change, reflection, or assessment. Just more of the same. March really should have provided a perfect window of opportunity to review and replace so much that is at fault: a radical overhaul of all the shit and backwardness in this country; or at the very least an assessment of where they want to go and want they want to be.

Gaman is like the donkey in George Orwell's 1984, just working himself harder and harder into the ground for some ideal - this is just what I see on the trains everyday with half dead salarymen plodding through life. Where's the drive or passion?

Half of Tohoku was decimated, 20 thousand something plus people died, people are living in shit houses, there's no economic growth, salaries are decreasing, poverty is increasing, there aren't any nurseries, better not have too many kids cause of all the fees, but let's gaman.

I entirely agree, fuck gaman. But I fear it's all a missed opportunity and nothing will come of all the stuff that's happened.

It's going to take a big fucking earthquake to jolt people out of their complacency.

[Mike Oxlong]

It's going to take a big fucking earthquake right smack dab in the middle of fucken Tokyo to jolt people out of their complacency.

FIFY.

[Yokohammer]

It's going to take a big fucking earthquake right smack dab in the middle of fucken Tokyo to jolt people out of their complacency.

FIFY.

In that case it's only a matter of time.

Not "if," but "when."

[Dreamy_Peach]

Gaman is like the donkey in George Orwell's 1984

Animal Farm...

[Jack]

[Yokohammer]

Would you even know quality from shit?
What qualifies you to pass an opinion on craftsmanship? Do you even know how to judge it?

Jack, you keep questioning other people's qualifications without providing any of your own.

You might want to offer a little curriculum vitae before challenging others on their knowledge.

[matsuki]

Would you even know quality from shit?
What qualifies you to pass an opinion on craftsmanship? Do you even know how to judge it?

It doesn't take a specialist in any field to see that's what goes on in this country, it's all over the place, not just in the housing market. All the effort goes into image/appearance and when it comes to houses, they sell you what would be a tool shed in most developed countries for the price of a very large home. Think of them as if IKEA built homes...some make look nice but it's still built out of particle board and not built to last. They have one advantage over IKEA though, the appeal of "Japanese superior quality" is more nihonjinron than most J-robots can handle so they buy into the whole quality issue. Craftsmanship? Peg A into slot B. Cookie cutter houses to the extreme. You realize that even the Japanese look down on the construction workers and the unskilled losers of society that will be forever poor?? Then the houses are built with tons of premade in China/etc. products/parts in it that they markup 9000% because it's marketed under some well known Japanese company. "Custom" here tends to mean ordering a few extra parts to put together to give you something that is not in the rabbit hutch catalog...nothing custom about it and if on top of that you actually need something fabricated, then you're wallet really better be ready for some pain.

[tone]

what chokon said - hyped up perceived value for middling quality unless you are like coligny and married to a hella rich family

strangely the image outside of japan is that its a country with a strong architecture culture. maybe thats due to japanese being often snappy dressers, or a few example modern bldgs and all the cool old houses people think of

but im with you guys, having just gotten back, i have been exposed to 10 yrs worth of fucking gaman here. just loser attitudes all around. wifes brother keeps failing his fucking certification for a better job but still spends all his time at work

great clothes here though.. god damn!

[Greji]

Would you even know quality from shit?
What qualifies you to pass an opinion on craftsmanship? Do you even know how to judge it?

Jackson boy, as someone who has built new two separate homes, a couple of apartment buildings, to include one apartment complex, I think I can comment on the quality of building. The current price value of a house expires at ten years, with the only remaining value being the land. That should give you a bit of a hint at the quality and longivity. Two of the houses I built were my personal residences. The second one because the first was falling apart after a reasonably short period of time. Both incidents required being present at the site almost daily to insure that there was any essence of quality control. Numerous meetings were also required with the builders to explain why such things as insulation was desired and even why it was needed (and this was with a fairly reputable construction company). Much more fun was had beating heads with them.

However, as frustrating as these experiences were, it does in a nut shell tell me that you haven't the foggiest fucking idea about construction, or the building industry in Japan. If you are not already back in Canada, I recommend you go back over to JTB or where ever it is you go and get some more of those worthless brochures on the wonders of Japanese architecture and the beauty of Kyoto, so you can keep getting a stiffy that will enable you to continue your exciting wet dream.

It is only obvious to those of us who live here and deal with the industry first hand, that it is you that don't know shit....

[wuchan]

It doesn't take a specialist in any field to see that's what goes on in this country, it's all over the place, not just in the housing market. All the effort goes into image/appearance and when it comes to houses, they sell you what would be a tool shed in most developed countries for the price of a very large home. Think of them as if IKEA built homes...some make look nice but it's still built out of particle board and not built to last. They have one advantage over IKEA though, the appeal of "Japanese superior quality" is more nihonjinron than most J-robots can handle so they buy into the whole quality issue. Craftsmanship? Peg A into slot B. Cookie cutter houses to the extreme. You realize that even the Japanese look down on the construction workers and the unskilled losers of society that will be forever poor?? Then the houses are built with tons of premade in China/etc. products/parts in it that they markup 9000% because it's marketed under some well known Japanese company. "Custom" here tends to mean ordering a few extra parts to put together to give you something that is not in the rabbit hutch catalog...nothing custom about it and if on top of that you actually need something fabricated, then you're wallet really better be ready for some pain.

One can get a decent house from a large homebuilder here but it isn't exactly easy. There are many road blocks that one needs to break through. One is the "architect" that is assigned the job. In many cases these guys only have a four year degree. By US standards this would be a draftsman not an architect. He/she knows how to use the software and draw up plans but doesn't actually design anything. The "architect"'s name appears on the basic floor plan that is given to the home owner. A different person's name appears on the master plan that is given to the GC and city that contains all the layers.

One thing that can not be changed, cheaply, when using the big home builders is the frame. Due to building codes the frame must be put on a shake table to prove it can withstand an earth quake. Because of this the houses are built in a factory like cars, this way they can "crash" test one instead of all the frames. If a custom house is built the builder can get around these laws by applying for, actually buying, a special permit.

Another big problem is the catalog. If it aint' in there you aint' gona get it. A very simple way around this is choose the cheapest shit possible then tear it all out a year later. Our GC actually told us to do this on a few things. Once the city issues the sticker you can do anything you want to your house.

Insulation. Good "western style" is available through the big house builders. The problem is the "architect" usually believes you don't need it. Ours said "we only use that in Hokkaido". I said, "I don't give a fuck if you only use it on the south pole, put it in my house". Battle won.

Windows. Believe it or not the windows used in japan today are not that bad. There is no reason to worry here. They even have auto glass based windows for security.

Doors. The front door is always steel or other metal and MUST open out. All the other doors are shit but no worse than what you would see in the US today. For the sliding types there are some cool products like frosted glass, japanese style paper, and both in one.

The landscaping rip-off. When we had the house built we already owned the land. It was a very large veggie garden before we started construction. Before they came I had to get the land changed over to residential. Next the builder came over to discuss how much money we were willing to spend and they collected the surveyor's drawings. After the initial visit from the builder they came back with a few simple plans, all of which included landscaping. The houses in these first drawings were tiny 2 bed, single floor houses not much bigger than a 2LDK condo. We were not happy. After my wife accosted the sales people they admitted that 45% of the cost was landscaping. At this point we, not so nicely, reminded them that we contacted their company to build a house not design a golf corse.

Getting what we wanted was an uphill battle. We still got, mostly, what we wanted in the end. The "architect" hated me by the end and was constantly whining about how this is not a house that belongs in japan. The ONLY person that didn't hate us by the end was the GC. He was cool with everything and liked most of our ideas.

[Coligny]

It is only obvious to those of us who live here and deal with the industry first hand, that it is you that don't know shit....

No need to go that far to realise how bad it is...

Just being your average DIY/home improvment hikikomorikiki (*) is enough to suffer on a daily basis...

Mah prefered time in the clinic... the day I disovered that all the grounding plugs of the building were screwed to the drywall... So it was not just not done right to save time... it was done wrong on purpose...

(*) i don't suffer from dyslexia... i enjoy every minute of it...

[Greji]

Getting what we wanted was an uphill battle. We still got, mostly, what we wanted in the end. The "architect" hated me by the end and was constantly whining about how this is not a house that belongs in japan. The ONLY person that didn't hate us by the end was the GC. He was cool with everything and liked most of our ideas.

Great post Wu...
Been there, done that, got the Tee shirt. But please don't tell Jack as it will only show that we don't know shit......

[IparryU]

Doors. The front door is always steel or other metal and MUST open out. All the other doors are shit but no worse than what you would see in the US today. For the sliding types there are some cool products like frosted glass, japanese style paper, and both in one.

luckily that there is not a whole bunch of policed having to kick in doors to arrest people here... that would require a crowbar and a mini-sledge hammer to open up... not fun

~snip~We were not happy. After my wife accosted the sales people they admitted that 45% of the cost was landscaping. At this point we, not so nicely, reminded them that we contacted their company to build a house not design a golf corse.

Getting what we wanted was an uphill battle. We still got, mostly, what we wanted in the end. The "architect" hated me by the end and was constantly whining about how this is not a house that belongs in japan. The ONLY person didn't hate us by the end was the GC. He was cool with everything and liked most of our ideas.

good thing that you accosted those sales crooks... 45% of cos on landscape is just BS... digging up dirt, replacing it with another type of dirt, and compressing it is only a few hours of work for 5 men... even less with machinery...

Was there anyway you could have spoken with the GC to slap around the nipponjiron architect?
"this properly built house is not a house that belongs to this shit standard cuntry japan..."

[matsuki]

Greji - you da man!

One can get a decent house from a large homebuilder here but it isn't exactly easy. There are many road blocks that one needs to break through.

Wu-chan - much respect. I know anything is possible with the right amount of money, effort, and bitchslapping the "We Japanese" out of who you hire. You, Greji, Catone, and I'm sure many other FG on here are proof of that. I was speaking in general terms. When I finally wife up and buy some land, I plan on picking the most ideal frame, having the bare bones minimum put up, and then having some of my family and construction buddies from Cali over here to help me have things done right, without the BS markup. If I do it right, they can bring over quite a bit of materials from the U.S.

One question though, why does the front door have to open out??

[IparryU]

Greji - you da man!



Wu-chan - much respect. I know anything is possible with the right amount of money, effort, and bitchslapping the "We Japanese" out of who you hire. You, Greji, Catone, and I'm sure many other FG on here are proof of that. I was speaking in general terms. When I finally wife up and buy some land, I plan on picking the most ideal frame, having the bare bones minimum put up, and then having some of my family and construction buddies from Cali over here to help me have things done right, without the BS markup. If I do it right, they can bring over quite a bit of materials from the U.S.

One question though, why does the front door have to open out??

my friend that was in the marines imported all of his furnature and housing supplies from different parts of the USA... he had some buddies that were working the ship so he loaded, shipped, unloaded, and delivered for close to nothing (if nothing at all)...

has a New Mexico house set up (really good for hot ass summers and freezing cold winters) with your typical japanese entrance and toiletry.

if you got the connects, money, and someone to bitchslap the "we japanese" retards... you got your self a damn good house

[Taro Toporific]

One question though, why does the front door have to open out??

Fire code.
Even in North America, commercial code requires the door to open outward so panicked people pushing won't pile up against the door blocking it. Also, it is generally easier to push open a door from an earthquake-collapsed house.

[matsuki]

my friend that was in the marines imported all of his furnature and housing supplies from different parts of the USA... he had some buddies that were working the ship so he loaded, shipped, unloaded, and delivered for close to nothing (if nothing at all)...

has a New Mexico house set up (really good for hot ass summers and freezing cold winters) with your typical japanese entrance and toiletry.

if you got the connects, money, and someone to bitchslap the "we japanese" retards... you got your self a damn good house ]

Yep, that's how to do it....and I'd help out any of my friends do the same.

Fire code.
Even in North America, commercial code requires the door to open outward so panicked people pushing won't pile up against the door blocking it. Also, it is generally easier to push open a door from an earthquake-collapsed house.

Makes sense, wonder why noone seems to follow that code in the states. One thing I will say about Japan is I do think sliding doors on the inside of homes here is a good idea far saving space....even my current place tried to be "modern" and has 3 western style doors. PITA for me alone, much worse if you have another person in there and trying to get by you.

[Coligny]

One thing I will say about Japan is I do think sliding doors on the inside of homes here is a good idea far saving space....even my current place tried to be "modern" and has 3 western style doors. PITA for me alone, much worse if you have another person in there and trying to get by you.

eeeehhmmm... cat people tend to disagree with this... ever seen a cat trained to open european doors struggle with japane 'To' sliding doors ? Funny for the first 5 minutes... then scary when she start digging through instead... (lucky I hid the flamethrower that day...)

[matsuki]

eeeehhmmm... cat people tend to disagree with this... ever seen a cat trained to open european doors struggle with japane 'To' sliding doors ? Funny for the first 5 minutes... then scary when she start digging through instead... (lucky I hid the flamethrower that day...)

Just like the wife, time to declaw the kitties

[Taro Toporific]

<Japanese front doors open outward>
Makes sense, wonder why noone seems to follow that code in the states. .

Commercial building code in North America requires front doors open outward. Residential building code doesn't specify the opening direction but custom dictates opening inwards.

Sliding doors in North America are used in space-saving applications such as laundry areas and closets. Sliding doors are seen as potential areas for failure with doors going off-track (a common enough problem in Japan). Sliding patio doors (aka back doors or garden doors) in the past five years have disappeared in new construction and most up-scale homes are now built with double French doors(see), which were the norm until the post-WWII era. Shower sliding doors are also disappearing in up-scale North American homes and doorless walk-in showers (see) are becoming mainstream.
Of course, Japan is still stuck in the stone-age for all these things.

[Greji]

Shower sliding doors are also disappearing in up-scale North American homes and doorless walk-in showers

Always liked those doorless showers. Lets you slip right up on the action......

[matsuki]

Commercial building code in North America requires front doors open outward. Residential building code doesn't specify the opening direction but custom dictates opening inwards.

Sliding doors in North America are used in space-saving applications such as laundry areas and closets. Sliding doors are seen as potential areas for failure with doors going off-track (a common enough problem in Japan). Sliding patio doors (aka back doors or garden doors) in the past five years have disappeared in new construction and most up-scale homes are now built with double French doors(see), which were the norm until the post-WWII era. Shower sliding doors are also disappearing in up-scale North American homes and doorless walk-in showers (see) are becoming mainstream.
Of course, Japan is still stuck in the stone-age for all these things.

Wow, but I think it does come down to an issue of space as well....the shoe box sized homes here are too small to do away with sliding doors.

[james]

Always liked those doorless showers. Lets you slip right up on the action......

is everyone invited to your lemon party?

[Coligny]

is everyone invited to your lemon party?

DO NOT GOOGLE THAT PEOPLE

YOU'VE BEEN WARNED...

[james]

DO NOT GOOGLE THAT PEOPLE

YOU'VE BEEN WARNED...

sorry man, but i've been damn near pissing myself laughing for the last 10 minutes or so.. i'm just imagining this poor french guy at the pc.. "euh? lemon party, c'est quoi ça? ok.. j'vais le googler.." and then imagining the look on your face as image search with safesearch off offers up its bounty..

[wuchan]

Yep, that's how to do it....and I'd help out any of my friends do the same.



Makes sense, wonder why noone seems to follow that code in the states. One thing I will say about Japan is I do think sliding doors on the inside of homes here is a good idea far saving space....even my current place tried to be "modern" and has 3 western style doors. PITA for me alone, much worse if you have another person in there and trying to get by you.

the reason US doors open inward is security. Person knocks on the door, you open it to see who is there and they stick a crowbar in the opening. If the door opens out there is no way for you to win, even with a hotel lock. Door open in and you have the advantage. Back home we always had a "slide bar" A slide bar is a steel bar that mounts on the back of the door and two feet back on the floor. The lock allowed for the door to open two inches with the bar in place. If someone tried to force the door open the person inside just had to sit on the bar to close the door and reset the lock. Even if the person inside could not force the door closed there was no way to get past the two inch mark. They were eliminated when people managed to get copies of the key that was issued to the fire department to disable the lock. It was replaced with the chain lock.