J-Nationalism on the rise

[Samurai_Jerk]

Or have you had this one happen? My little circle of friends tend to just forget I'm a FG altogether. I hear some pretty jacked up things here and there and after a sideways look from me they realize "oh yea your not one of us" then the inevitable "but you don't count"

I get that one at the office a lot.

[wangta]

Choko - good thread. I think I can give a good perspective as I am back here after some yrs away and definitely there is more of the jingoistic nationalism and support for blatant rewriting of history here than there was first time around.

I think nearly everybody here understands that the western attitude to Asia, including East Asia, left a lot to be desired in the 20th century. The whole underlying racism of the League of Nation's (before the UN) refusal to even consider a policy of racial equality which was a big reason in Japan leaving it, to name just one. Then of course the tragedy of Vietnam where Agent Orange could be indiscriminately sprayed to catch enemy combatants and Vietnam could be bombed 'back to the Stone Age' among other outrages (though of course the Viet Cong were not saints) etc etc.

But what disturbs me about Japan now is the confusion that abounds re Japan's very real aggression in invading Korea first and then Manchuria to establish the puppet state of Manchukuo, and the alliance with Nazi Germany. The fact that western powers invaded other countries and also committed crimes during various times in history does not give Japan a pass on its inglorious militarisation process and then full scale, Nazi pact making fascist rule at home and abroad.

Generally the Japanese seem to be able to dismiss the fact of Nazi alliances with no comprehension that their country aided and abetted one of the most evil regimes the world has ever seen, all the more for the fact it existed in the 20th century instead of hundreds of yrs ago. They talk about how terrible Hitler etc were yet do not see the fact that their country was Hitler's friend.

Japanese students are trotting off on peace study school trips yet are not taught that Japan's takeover by militarists resulted not only in the abuse and deaths of millions of other Asians whom the Japanese claimed to be 'freeing' from white rule but a nightmare for most Japanese people. Where are the history lessons on Japan's secret police led by the lamented Tojo who supposedly isn't a war criminal but who abused and murdered Japanese people who wanted democracy and opposed the brutality of militarism?

There is still no context for Hiroshima and Nagasaki given in the so called 'peace studies' at most schools apart from the usual one day something evil came from the sky and it was all the American's and their white allies' fault. A nice, intelligent middle aged student I teach talked about how important peace studies are for her daughter but looked surprised and blank when I asked her if the peace studies at school also mentioned how the militarisation of Japan leading up to WW2 created a society based on fear, a society that murdered fellow Japanese opponents who did not take up arms against it but merely spoke against it, and sent teenagers to die pointlessly in airplanes.

How about the lessons on Okinawans who were forced to commit suicide by the Japanese military instead of surrender? Again the same disassociation - Japanese are quick to say how the US should get its bases out of Okinawa but are oblivious to the fact that Japan has played the same occupying role in Okinawa and the natives don't thank them for it.

I even had a very educated and fairly nice student in his 40s recently tell me that the Japanese occupied Singapore, Burma, Malaysia etc to 'free Asians from white colonialism'. Of course this was the justification but I told him very politely that if he had the opportunity to speak to older Singaporeans, Malaysians and Burmese and not just the relatively few older ones who survived WW2, he would find that they consider British colonialism had some benefits despite its negative aspects yet the Japanese are chiefly remembered for their cruelty not only to captured white prisoners but also to the natives of those countries.

[Taro Toporific]

And then there is Tank Boy...

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[Russell]

Maybe it is the academic environment I work in, but I see hardly an increase in J-Nationalism.

Yeah, there is plenty of nationalism here, but I wouldn't call it more than 20 years ago, rather less.

You also have to see any perceived increase of nationalism in Japan in the context of its increase worldwide. Can't say that the US isn't suffering from the same disease.

[Yokohammer]

And then there is Tank Boy...

image.jpg

Taro, where is that poster from?
(i.e. what person/group produced it, if you know?)

[Samurai_Jerk]

Maybe it is the academic environment I work in, but I see hardly an increase in J-Nationalism.

Yeah, there is plenty of nationalism here, but I wouldn't call it more than 20 years ago, rather less.

You also have to see any perceived increase of nationalism in Japan in the context of its increase worldwide. Can't say that the US isn't suffering from the same disease.

I think it seems that way to long timers sometimes because their understanding of what's being said and what's going on around them increases with each year. It's not that people are necessarily becoming more nationalistic it's that you're picking up on their nationalism in a way you couldn't five or ten tears ago. Same goes for racism/xenophobia.

Like you I'm not sure where these guys are hanging out that they're hearing this kind of talk on a regular basis. I mainly drink in shitamachi Tokyo with the kind of people you might expect to be aggressively nationalistic or make ignorant comments about the war and I never hear anything like what others are describing.

[Yokohammer]

I have to agree with both Wangta and Russell on this one, as strange as that sounds, simply because the change is not uniform or consistent throughout J-society.

Intelligent, open-minded Japanese who are prepared to look beyond the borders of their own country and outside the pages of home-grown history books and form their own opinions based on that experience tend not to fall into the knee-jerk, ugly nationalism queue. That's probably why Russell isn't seeing much change. I'm guessing the people he works with are of fairly high intelligence and also depend on communication with academics all around the world for their jobs.

But the inbred right-wingers and racists, as well as the lazy follow-the-leader lemming crew, are emboldened and encouraged by a government that is leaning more and more to the right while essentially oppressing any person or group that holds a dissenting view. The secrecy law that was ramrodded through the lower house yesterday in the face of widespread opposition is just one example. The term "fascism" isn't too far from the truth.

The real problem is that many of the people currently in power fall into the latter group, not the former.

[Yokohammer]

I think it seems that way to long timers sometimes because their understanding of what's being said and what's going on around them increases with each year. It's not that people are necessarily becoming more nationalistic it's that you're picking up on their nationalism in a way you couldn't five or ten tears ago. Same goes for racism/xenophobia.

And to complicate matters even further, I have to agree that this probably accounts for at least part of the change in perception too.

[IparryU]

I mean, we are talking about 2 of the most murderous nations in history here.

Rome and the Catholic Church?

Well, now we're up to 4. Anybody ready to play their Stalin card???? It's not like there's a limit on membership, after all.

Everyone seems to be forgetting the mongols... Savs

Sent from my SC-03E using Tapatalk 2

[J.A.F.O]

I have to agree with both Wangta and Russell on this one, as strange as that sounds, simply because the change is not uniform or consistent throughout J-society.

Intelligent, open-minded Japanese who are prepared to look beyond the borders of their own country and outside the pages of home-grown history books and form their own opinions based on that experience tend not to fall into the knee-jerk, ugly nationalism queue. That's probably why Russell isn't seeing much change. I'm guessing the people he works with are of fairly high intelligence and also depend on communication with academics all around the world for their jobs.

But the inbred right-wingers and racists, as well as the lazy follow-the-leader lemming crew, are emboldened and encouraged by a government that is leaning more and more to the right while essentially oppressing any person or group that holds a dissenting view. The secrecy law that was ramrodded through the lower house yesterday in the face of widespread opposition is just one example. The term "fascism" isn't too far from the truth.

The real problem is that many of the people currently in power fall into the latter group, not the former.

The problem at least in my little area of j-society is that not unlike the "intelligent open minded japanese who are prepared to look beyond the borders of their own country and outside the pages of home-grown history books" the right wingers and racists are also very intelligent and to a point a lot more focused and organized.

In the States there is this black cloud that hovers over you if you're saddled with the banner of "racist" not so here. In the States that very label of bigot or racist carries a connotation of stupidity and ignorance that is held by the bulk of society. Here its just a preference. In this place you're the one considered ignorant and simple minded for what would be rational back home. I try to avoid referring to any group as inbred or other expletives that come to mind because here it discredits my own views. And selling them short or underestimating any group on the grand scheme allows them to grow stronger.

Just a thought.

[Yokohammer]

Yeah, intelligence in general doesn't necessarily exclude malignant.

My use of the term "inbred" was meant to refer to right wingers and racists who are what they are simply because of the family or group they belong to. Plenty of politicians like this, and our current PM, although not overtly racist, fits that mold to a T.

[Coligny]

And then there is Tank Boy...

image.jpg

Taro, where is that poster from?
(i.e. what person/group produced it, if you know?)

From people who don't know japan don't have M1 MBTs...

[matsuki]

Or have you had this one happen? My little circle of friends tend to just forget I'm a FG altogether. I hear some pretty jacked up things here and there and after a sideways look from me they realize "oh yea your not one of us" then the inevitable "but you don't count"

I get that one at the office a lot.

Hockey team, at work, and yeah, they don't consider it "racism" but "just how it is."

I hear far more of this shit from males than females and usually it's FG males they have a problem with. With the lemurs, they tend to idolize FG women and say even dumpy looking FG men are "kakkoii" so I'm always inclined to think of it as the male Japanese knee jerk, lack of confidence, reaction to an imagined threat from larger penii touting foreigners. (and I'm only half joking, you can't live in this cuntry without having your penis size being questioned at least a few times)

Anyhow, back to the nationalism issue...I kinda agree with Yoko' summation of it. Lack of education, grandparents who lost family members in the war, and politicians like we have now, keep the sentiment alive. Language barrier means the internet isn't as effective at dispelling myths and other BS as in other cuntries.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I haven't found the women to be any better or worse than the men.

I think we can't ignore Russell's point about a worldwide trend towards increased nationalism. Look at the US and Europe. That trend isn't surprising considering the state the economy has been in since the "Lehman Shock" (God I hate that simplistic term).

Global economic crisis + an increasingly aggressive China = increased Japanese nationalism

Kinda hard to blame them.

[matsuki]

I haven't found the women to be any better or worse than the men.

I think we can't ignore Russell's point about a worldwide trend towards increased nationalism. Look at the US and Europe. That trend isn't surprising considering the state the economy has been in since the "Lehman Shock" (God I hate that simplistic term).

Global economic crisis + an increasingly aggressive China = increased Japanese nationalism

Kinda hard to blame them.

I don't disagree but where Japan differs from most other cuntries is the whole BS tie in with the belief that the population here is homogeneous and all that other Nihonjinron crap. Not saying Japan is the only cuntry like this, but it's definitely the one who's future is most effected by this US/THEM nationalistic mindset. Especially when it comes to business!! The funny thing is the more and more I export, the more company managers I meet that recognize the NEED to sell outside of Japan but are hampered by owners/execs that either refuse to acknowledge the situation and take action or simply don't want to do business with foreigners. (which usually means hiring a sheisty Japanese abroad to sell for them....who royally fucks them while they smile and take "because Japanese") It gets even worse when I have to advise the companies I sell to that they should keep some products in inventory...my inventory is limited by how much I can afford and sure enough, nearly every month I get an order for something sold out, that was predictable, that's in production in the US, and takes weeks/months to get ahold of. I do what I can to keep the popular stuff in my own inventory but many products I sell are also custom made and that's a whole extra level of pain for companies(and their customers) that are used to next day delivery within Japan.

[J.A.F.O]

Damn Choco! I thought what I did was hard.

[Buraku]

Of all the aggravating things they do I find enjoyable, I think that takes the cake. I still take sadistic pleasure in referring to V-J Day as Haisen-kinenbi.

Having lived a large part of my life in Germany, I find the difference in historical attitudes a continuing source of fascination.

this guy really upset the apple cart

I think I might feel sorry for this German

[Coligny]

this guy really upset the apple cart

I think I might feel sorry for this German

/FTFY

//n00b

[Coligny]

Never a gud idea to taunt smallbrained nazis in huge numbers...
In France no cop would have risked his ass to protect that guy from himself...

http://www.liberation.fr/evenement/1995 ... age_134528

1995... An A-rab was too close... They decided to teach him how to swim in the river Seine... Didn't end all too well for the unwilling student...

St Joan of Arc being the (1st May) french equivalent of the 15 august here...
Funny part being that it's also the "workers celebration day" for the local commies, with a totally different mood... And no dead A-rabs...

[kurogane]

Maybe it is the academic environment I work in, but I see hardly an increase in J-Nationalism.

Yeah, there is plenty of nationalism here, but I wouldn't call it more than 20 years ago, rather less.

You also have to see any perceived increase of nationalism in Japan in the context of its increase worldwide. Can't say that the US isn't suffering from the same disease.

All very good points, and as a belated observation, your mention of the acdemic environment (and somebody else's??) made me realise that I am probably suffering from overexposure to the reverse: until my retirement from the Ivory Spirals, I really had never had to deal with as many plebs as I now do.

I do sense a rise amongst Japanese of a conciousness or discussion of rather nationalist topics and certainly an Apology Fatigue for The War, etc., but as you and others noted, where isn't that true. Christ, the PM of Canada just claimed the North F'in Pole, and he's verifiably Canadian, even if he is a plebby flatlander. I do believe he just apologised to the natives again, though..............so at least he's not a complete waste of DNA.

[torasan]

related? A Chinese spokesman accused Mr Abe of “beautifying aggression”, and called the war criminals remembered at Yasukuni “the Nazis of Asia”.

[Coligny]

Please, don't insult nazis, at least they had a work ethic of sorts...

[matsuki]

related? A Chinese spokesman accused Mr Abe of “beautifying aggression”, and called the war criminals remembered at Yasukuni “the Nazis of Asia”.

He's obviously an ignorant Chinese, not wanting to admit Japan was liberating China from the imperial western powers that be

[Yokohammer]

Speaking of nationalists, remember Tamogami?

Well, he's back.

Axed nationalist Gen. Tamogami seeks Tokyo governorship

An ex-top Air Self-Defense Force officer who was sacked in 2008 for his right-leaning, nationalistic views on history plans to run for the Tokyo gubernatorial election to be held Feb. 9, an employee at his office said Monday.

Retired Gen. Toshio Tamogami, 66, former ASDF chief of staff, plans to announce his plans Tuesday afternoon in Tokyo, the employee said.

Tamogami was sacked in October 2008 as ASDF chief amid political turmoil after he published an essay that argued Japan was not “an aggressor” of the wars it waged in the 1930s and 1940s.

Tamogami also claimed Japan was drawn into a full-fledged war with China by Chiang Kai-shek and into the Pacific War by communist agents who influenced U.S. President Franklin Roosevelt.

After leaving the ADSF, Tamogami became a political commentator and now heads the right-leaning, nationalistic political group Gambare Nippon! Zenkoku Kodo Iinkai (Hang on Japan! The National Action Committee), based in Tokyo.

In the latest entry of his blog dated Dec. 27, Tamogami praised Prime Minister Shinzo Abe’s visit to war-linked Yasukuni Shrine last month, arguing Beijing and Seoul should not “interfere in the domestic affairs” of Japan.

Tamogami also bashed Washington for criticizing Abe’s visit, claiming the U.S. wants to maintain the status quo in which Japan “is bound with its masochistic view of history.”

“China and South Korea are opposing the Yasukuni visit just because they want to make conditions for diplomatic negotiations with Japan better for them,” he wrote.

The article at the Japan Times: Axed nationalist Gen. Tamogami seeks Tokyo governorship

[matsuki]

Oh fuck, could the timing be any better for the olympics?

[kurogane]

Oh fuck, could the timing be any better for the olympics?

WELLLlllllllllllllllllllllll, Hitler only had 3 years to prepare for the Berlin Olympics, so if General Tamagotchi gets in next year or so he should be in full rage mode by the time the world gets to the gates.

I claim a Godwin's Law pull. Does that mean I win!!???

[Taro Toporific]

Speaking of nationalists, remember Tamogami?
Well, he's back.

Axed nationalist Gen. Tamogami seeks Tokyo governorship
An ex-top Air Self-Defense Force officer who was sacked in 2008 for his right-leaning, nationalistic views on history plans to run for the Tokyo gubernatorial election to be held Feb. 9, an employee at his office said Monday.
... Axed nationalist Gen. Tamogami seeks Tokyo governorship

japantimes.co.jp/news/2014/01/07/national/is-english-tamogamis-weak-suit
...Tamogami’s Japanese profile on his official website has an English line that describes him as “the former chife of stuff,ASDF,” presumably a carelessly translated version of “Former Chief of Staff, ASDF” (Air Self-Defense Force).

http://www.toshio-tamogami.jp/greet/profile.html

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Screen Shots 2014-01-08 at 1.42.57 PM

[matsuki]

I wonder what the Japanese Nazi uniforms will look like...stylish or cute to seduce the masses?

[Coligny]

I wonder what the Japanese Nazi uniforms will look like...stylish or cute to seduce the masses?

Let me halp... Maybe...

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[JAVGOD]

related? A Chinese spokesman accused Mr Abe of “beautifying aggression”, and called the war criminals remembered at Yasukuni “the Nazis of Asia”.

Speaking of Nazi exterminators, enter Chairman Mao - he made Hitler look like a newb.

In other unrelated news the US Ambassador to China suddenly resigned today. Guess he got tired of all that clean air in Beijing.