Do FG tourists have to have hotel lined up to enter Japan

[Yokohammer]

I don't get annoyed by being asked for ID at all. I can't see why it is of the slightest offence and some people will use identity fraud to gain an unfair advantage and even commit crime. Nor do I care about being fingerprinted at immigration - provided it is fast and clean. What's the problem? All people are seeking to do is verify your identity in situations where it is important.

The problem is that they justify this by saying it is a countermeasure against terrrrorism, but at the same time they do not require the same from the Japanese population.

In other words, it is discrimination.

In a word, yes. But there's a little more to it IMHO.

I'm not in the least bit bothered by being asked for ID in a situation where it's justified and authorised, such as at immigration or in some banking situations. Everyone gets the same treatment. But hotels are simply not authorised to card everyone who looks foreign and, as mentioned above, there is a need to be cautious about who you give your personal information to. Especially copies of ID documents that could be used for fraud. Hotels are not subject to the kind of data management protocols that organisations like the immigration bureau or the police are (supposedly) subject to, and even then there have been problems with documents being misused by the police. The fact that the police might have requested that a hotel copy ID for all foreigners does not authorise them to do it.

To take that a little further, I was never bothered about being fingerprinted for my old AR card either. But I can assure you that I'm going to go ballistic if some hotel wants to fingerprint me before they'll allow me to stay. Totally hypothetical, to be sure, but sometimes you have to stop and see how far things are away from total stupidity before you just blindly go along. Restaurants requesting ID before they'll serve you a meal, for example? I've never heard of that happening, but there are plenty of examples of foreigners being refused service.

OK, so back to the hotel for a minute. Suppose I refuse to allow them to copy my ID because a) I'm not legally required to do so because I have an address in Japan and b) they don't have the legal authority to make that demand. They could say "well, we need to see your ID to prove that you have an address in Japan." See the Catch 22 emerging here? Suppose I have acquired Japanese citizenship. Would the hotel be justified in demanding to see my ID to prove that I actually have Japanese citizenship when that citizenship supposedly grants me the same rights and protections as every other Japanese citizen, and when they wouldn't even make that demand of someone else who "looks" (but who might not actually be) Japanese?

Things start getting stupid very quickly if you bend the parameters even slightly.

[Russell]

Good point about the data management protocols. Never thought about that, but yes, makes totally sense to not have your passport or other ID copied.

Anyway, I do not allow copying of my ID in hotels. If they want to see it, I show my driver's license, and that works all the time.

If someone would really insist to make a copy, I could always ask what data management protocols they have in place to avoid misuse of my information. That would probably work very well (especially in Japan, where it would confuse the hell out of them).

[Samurai_Jerk]

Asking to see your I.D. is no biggie, we have to do it all the time in kaigailand when we use CC, no?

No.

Would the hotel be justified in demanding to see my ID to prove that I actually have Japanese citizenship

Is there an ID that proves your Japanese citizenship other than a passport?

[Yokohammer]

Is there an ID that proves your Japanese citizenship other than a passport?

Just guessing without having checked: 戸籍抄本 or 住民票. But of course you're not likely to be carrying either of those around as a matter of course. I believe your 本籍 used to be listed on your driver's license, but that info is now buried in the card chip and can only be accessed with equipment that, as far as I know, only the police have. Your driver's license now only shows your name and address in print. So yeah, I guess the most "convenient" proof of citizenship would be your passport. Maybe Havill can confirm that one for us. Wouldn't it be lovely to have to show your Japanese passport at hotels to get a room ...


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[matsuki]

Asking to see your I.D. is no biggie, we have to do it all the time in kaigailand when we use CC, no?

No.

What? They ask to see ID when using a CC in at least 3 other countries I've been to??

Is there an ID that proves your Japanese citizenship other than a passport?

Just guessing without having checked: 戸籍抄本 or 住民票. But of course you're not likely to be carrying either of those around as a matter of course. I believe your 本籍 used to be listed on your driver's license, but that info is now buried in the card chip and can only be accessed with equipment that, as far as I know, only the police have. Your driver's license now only shows your name and address in print. So yeah, I guess the most "convenient" proof of citizenship would be your passport. Maybe Havill can confirm that one for us. Wouldn't it be lovely to have to show your Japanese passport at hotels to get a room ...

You don't need to show proof of citizenship, as most have already mentioned, you just need to show you have an address here....so flashing your driver's license is enough if they hassle you...but like many others, I haven't been hassled when I said I live here. Cops are one thing but hotels have no business demanding to know what your nationality is or taking copies of your IDs, especially your passport.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Asking to see your I.D. is no biggie, we have to do it all the time in kaigailand when we use CC, no?

No.

What? They ask to see ID when using a CC in at least 3 other countries I've been to??

I don't get asked in the US, South Korea, Vietnam, or Taiwan.

[matsuki]

Asking to see your I.D. is no biggie, we have to do it all the time in kaigailand when we use CC, no?

No.

What? They ask to see ID when using a CC in at least 3 other countries I've been to??

I don't get asked in the US, South Korea, Vietnam, or Taiwan.

I was going to say the US, Canada, and Mexico but hey, maybe I'm just more shifty lookin' than you.

[havill]

Is there an ID that proves your Japanese citizenship other than a passport?

Japanese driver's licenses, inside the IC chip, have the Honseki on it; it's no longer printed on te car though, so you need a scanner and both 4 digt personal PINs to decode ans decrypt it. Foreigners have the country of their nationality in the chip in the Honseki field. Airport Immigration sometimes ask for driver's license as backup proof if your Japanese passport goes missing.

The Jūki Card used to serve as proof of Japanese nationality, but now that foreigners can have jūminhyō, it no longer is.

National IDs for Japanese nationals are scheduled for initial rollout in 2015, which corresponds to the full digitalization and nationalization of the Koseki databases. The technology (IC chip etc) and style of the cards will be inspired by the foreigner's Zairyū Card system, where they're borrowing a lot of technology. They will not be mandatory.

More info: http://www.turning-japanese.info/2013/1 ... estic.html

[Samurai_Jerk]

National IDs for Japanese nationals are scheduled for initial rollout in 2015

I wonder if that means photo ID's will start to be required more often than they are now.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Asking to see your I.D. is no biggie, we have to do it all the time in kaigailand when we use CC, no?

No.

What? They ask to see ID when using a CC in at least 3 other countries I've been to??

I don't get asked in the US, South Korea, Vietnam, or Taiwan.

I was going to say the US, Canada, and Mexico but hey, maybe I'm just more shifty lookin' than you.

Maybe you're remembering how it used to be in the US. It's been years since businesses there have generally required ID when using credit cards. Or maybe it's a California thing.

[matsuki]

Asking to see your I.D. is no biggie, we have to do it all the time in kaigailand when we use CC, no?

No.

What? They ask to see ID when using a CC in at least 3 other countries I've been to??

I don't get asked in the US, South Korea, Vietnam, or Taiwan.

I was going to say the US, Canada, and Mexico but hey, maybe I'm just more shifty lookin' than you.

Maybe you're remembering how it used to be in the US. It's been years since businesses there have generally required ID when using credit cards. Or maybe it's a California thing.

Maybe it is a California thing but remember I go back several times a year???

Might have to do with the size of the purchase...I don't get asked for ID every time I go buy a soda....but getting gas, buying groceries, etc. In Japan, never had to show ID for CC purchases, regardless of the amount.

[wagyl]

but getting gas, buying groceries, etc. In Japan, never had to show ID for CC purchases, regardless of the amount.

Buying ..... for the sake of inclusiveness I suppose I should call it fuel ... was always a problem for me. The pay-at-the-bowser systems ask for a Zipcode (which is a fucking stupid way to try to ID someone as a quasi-PIN but you know that already) and of course non-US postcodes are not recognised. I don't need the info in a hurry because I am not at a gas station buying ridiculously cheap fuel with a foreign credit card right at this moment, but is there a workaround for this so that you don't have to wake up the minimum wage guy in the office? It must be a problem for Canadians too, what with their postcodes like V4G 1N4 (actual example).

[Mike Oxlong]

Hasn't the PIN number system with CC largely replaced the rationale to check ID of users?

[inflames]

but getting gas, buying groceries, etc. In Japan, never had to show ID for CC purchases, regardless of the amount.

Buying ..... for the sake of inclusiveness I suppose I should call it fuel ... was always a problem for me. The pay-at-the-bowser systems ask for a Zipcode (which is a fucking stupid way to try to ID someone as a quasi-PIN but you know that already) and of course non-US postcodes are not recognised. I don't need the info in a hurry because I am not at a gas station buying ridiculously cheap fuel with a foreign credit card right at this moment, but is there a workaround for this so that you don't have to wake up the minimum wage guy in the office? It must be a problem for Canadians too, what with their postcodes like V4G 1N4 (actual example).

Stop number 1 for people with stolen CCs are gas stations because of the pumps (nobody is there to check the card). The ZIP code thing eliminates 99% of fraud right away.

From the US (all over - usually go back to midwest or east coast) but never been asked for ID.

[matsuki]

but getting gas, buying groceries, etc. In Japan, never had to show ID for CC purchases, regardless of the amount.

Buying ..... for the sake of inclusiveness I suppose I should call it fuel ... was always a problem for me. The pay-at-the-bowser systems ask for a Zipcode (which is a fucking stupid way to try to ID someone as a quasi-PIN but you know that already) and of course non-US postcodes are not recognised. I don't need the info in a hurry because I am not at a gas station buying ridiculously cheap fuel with a foreign credit card right at this moment, but is there a workaround for this so that you don't have to wake up the minimum wage guy in the office? It must be a problem for Canadians too, what with their postcodes like V4G 1N4 (actual example).

LOL, buying gasoline with a foreign CC is indeed a PITA...but the whole reason why they implemented the whole zipcode requirement is the first test for most newly stolen (physically or otherwise) CCs seems to be buying gasoline Due to the shitty exchange rate and foreign currency charge most issuers seem to hit you with, I don't recommend using a foreign CC to buy gas even without that hassle.

Hasn't the PIN number system with CC largely replaced the rationale to check ID of users?

Ehhh? As far as I've ever seen, PINs for CCs only seem to be for ATM withdraws (cash advances) though if you mean debit cards, yeah, using your PIN at a POS wouldn't require you to show your ID. (but not using a CC means that you are exposing your debit card info at every transaction....without the extra layer of insurance and offset liability of a CC)

[matsuki]

From the US (all over - usually go back to midwest or east coast) but never been asked for ID.

So...maybe it is a California thing? (or west coast thing, I'm pretty sure I get carded in LV as well)

[yanpa]

Hasn't the PIN number system with CC largely replaced the rationale to check ID of users?

Ehhh? As far as I've ever seen, PINs for CCs only seem to be for ATM withdraws (cash advances) though if you mean debit cards, yeah, using your PIN at a POS wouldn't require you to show your ID. (but not using a CC means that you are exposing your debit card info at every transaction....without the extra layer of insurance and offset liability of a CC)

POS PIN input for for credit cards is pretty universal in Europe.

[Mike Oxlong]

Hasn't the PIN number system with CC largely replaced the rationale to check ID of users?

Ehhh? As far as I've ever seen, PINs for CCs only seem to be for ATM withdraws (cash advances) though if you mean debit cards, yeah, using your PIN at a POS wouldn't require you to show your ID. (but not using a CC means that you are exposing your debit card info at every transaction....without the extra layer of insurance and offset liability of a CC)

POS PIN input for for credit cards is pretty universal in Europe.

Last trip to the States - California 2012. POS PIN input.
Last trip to Canuckistan - 2013. POS PIN input.
Last trip to get my motorcycle repaired in Okinawa 2014 - POS PIN input.

[wagyl]

but getting gas, buying groceries, etc. In Japan, never had to show ID for CC purchases, regardless of the amount.

Buying ..... for the sake of inclusiveness I suppose I should call it fuel ... was always a problem for me. The pay-at-the-bowser systems ask for a Zipcode (which is a fucking stupid way to try to ID someone as a quasi-PIN but you know that already) and of course non-US postcodes are not recognised. I don't need the info in a hurry because I am not at a gas station buying ridiculously cheap fuel with a foreign credit card right at this moment, but is there a workaround for this so that you don't have to wake up the minimum wage guy in the office? It must be a problem for Canadians too, what with their postcodes like V4G 1N4 (actual example).

Stop number 1 for people with stolen CCs are gas stations because of the pumps (nobody is there to check the card). The ZIP code thing eliminates 99% of fraud right away.

A problem more reliably solved by using the PIN number, because that is not linked to the address which you stole the credit card from nor linked to the address information also contained in the wallet you stole, with the added benefit that the PIN number is pretty much standardised internationally (although some are 4 digit some are 6) and thus make it easier for all those foreign folk travelling in the country to get a chance to see some of the beauty outside the big cities and theme parks. A PIN solves 99.9% of the fraud and you don't have to link postcode with card number, the PIN is already linked.

No real problem. I got the chance to wake up a lot of Mexican guys.

[matsuki]

but getting gas, buying groceries, etc. In Japan, never had to show ID for CC purchases, regardless of the amount.

Buying ..... for the sake of inclusiveness I suppose I should call it fuel ... was always a problem for me. The pay-at-the-bowser systems ask for a Zipcode (which is a fucking stupid way to try to ID someone as a quasi-PIN but you know that already) and of course non-US postcodes are not recognised. I don't need the info in a hurry because I am not at a gas station buying ridiculously cheap fuel with a foreign credit card right at this moment, but is there a workaround for this so that you don't have to wake up the minimum wage guy in the office? It must be a problem for Canadians too, what with their postcodes like V4G 1N4 (actual example).

Stop number 1 for people with stolen CCs are gas stations because of the pumps (nobody is there to check the card). The ZIP code thing eliminates 99% of fraud right away.

A problem more reliably solved by using the PIN number, because that is not linked to the address which you stole the credit card from nor linked to the address information also contained in the wallet you stole, with the added benefit that the PIN number is pretty much standardised internationally (although some are 4 digit some are 6) and thus make it easier for all those foreign folk travelling in the country to get a chance to see some of the beauty outside the big cities and theme parks. A PIN solves 99.9% of the fraud and you don't have to link postcode with card number, the PIN is already linked.

No real problem. I got the chance to wake up a lot of Mexican guys.

PIN is definitely the better solution, no argument there, the zipcode requirement just seems like a band-aid solution that is still somewhat effective...and just hasn't been replaced yet.

Hasn't the PIN number system with CC largely replaced the rationale to check ID of users?

Ehhh? As far as I've ever seen, PINs for CCs only seem to be for ATM withdraws (cash advances) though if you mean debit cards, yeah, using your PIN at a POS wouldn't require you to show your ID. (but not using a CC means that you are exposing your debit card info at every transaction....without the extra layer of insurance and offset liability of a CC)

POS PIN input for for credit cards is pretty universal in Europe.

Last trip to the States - California 2012. POS PIN input.
Last trip to Canuckistan - 2013. POS PIN input.
Last trip to get my motorcycle repaired in Okinawa 2014 - POS PIN input.

So it's a CC, NOT a debit card? If so, what country is your CC issued in?

The only PIN I've ever used with a CC is the "one time PIN" they e-mail to you when making large purchases. (like plane tickets) ***I have a PIN for my only US card but I had to go out of my way to get it set up and the only time it is used is if I'm taking out cash from an ATM (I set it up in case of an emergency)

[Mike Oxlong]

PIN is definitely the better solution, no argument there, the zipcode requirement just seems like a band-aid solution that is still somewhat effective...and just hasn't been replaced yet.

Hasn't the PIN number system with CC largely replaced the rationale to check ID of users?

Ehhh? As far as I've ever seen, PINs for CCs only seem to be for ATM withdraws (cash advances) though if you mean debit cards, yeah, using your PIN at a POS wouldn't require you to show your ID. (but not using a CC means that you are exposing your debit card info at every transaction....without the extra layer of insurance and offset liability of a CC)

POS PIN input for for credit cards is pretty universal in Europe.

Last trip to the States - California 2012. POS PIN input.
Last trip to Canuckistan - 2013. POS PIN input.
Last trip to get my motorcycle repaired in Okinawa 2014 - POS PIN input.

So it's a CC, NOT a debit card? If so, what country is your CC issued in?

Old card from the old country, use when making minor purchases traveling back there and in the US. New card issued locally.

[matsuki]

Sooo...Euro CC? I guess that makes sense.

Japanese CC requiring a PIN though??

[yanpa]

I thought MO is from Canuckistan?

My Japanese CC certainly has a PIN, which I haven't needed in Japan (only place I use it in person is the supermarket when I have no cash).

[Mike Oxlong]

I thought MO is from Canuckistan?

My Japanese CC certainly has a PIN, which I haven't needed in Japan (only place I use it in person is the supermarket when I have no cash).

Yep, a Canook don't ya know, eh. What's this EuroTrash all aboot?

I find small businesses that have updated their CC readers are the most common places I have to use my PIN, but some larger retailers have been adopting the practice slowly. Supermarkets and department stores seem to be holdouts.

[wagyl]

My Japanese credit card from probably 14 years ago has always had a PIN linked to it, and it was part of the initial application. Like Mike, in my experience the places which require a PIN tend to be smaller businesses, and possibly has something to do with merchant fees being lower if you have a PIN access terminal. Larger and chain businesses tend to be proud to be signless (including PINless), which scares me more than Halloween. Maybe I shouldn't be scared: most of the places which ask you to sign hand the card back to you before you get the pen.

[Christoff]

You know of course they have a gaijin gulag beneath the airport?

At least they dont hang people there like we do at Changi....