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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ Gaijin Ghetto

The Weather Thread.

Groovin' in the Gaijin Gulag
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Coligny » Thu Aug 06, 2015 9:06 pm

matsuki wrote:...and yet I know waaaay too many people who's baba/jiji parents refuse to use AC



Not here...

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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby legion » Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:21 am

Came along the Chuo in my little kei wagon this afternoon, the aircon was struggling to keep the box from turning into an oven while managing to make the engine struggle on the long climbs.

Next time I travel distance in mid summer I'm renting a car with a bigger engine. Vamos-chan is a trooper but I don't want to break her.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Coligny » Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:49 am

legion wrote:Came along the Chuo in my little kei wagon this afternoon, the aircon was struggling to keep the box from turning into an oven while managing to make the engine struggle on the long climbs.

Next time I travel distance in mid summer I'm renting a car with a bigger engine. Vamos-chan is a trooper but I don't want to break her.


Have the aircon coolant replaced /topped the HFC134a seems to enjoy seeping out ruining the efficiency of the clinate control system.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Mike Oxlong » Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:58 am

And passing just south of my location...

Super Typhoon Soudelor is the strongest storm on Earth this year (so far)
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby matsuki » Fri Aug 07, 2015 8:52 am

Samurai_Jerk wrote:
matsuki wrote:...and yet I know waaaay too many people who's baba/jiji parents refuse to use AC


The irony is they think AC is what will kill them. Of course some of them are just too poor to run up their electric bills.


THIS!

They go on and on about how it's bad for your health. If they're too poor, that's one thing...but most of the time it's either too cheap or insane
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby wagyl » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:14 am

Coligny wrote:
legion wrote:Came along the Chuo in my little kei wagon this afternoon, the aircon was struggling to keep the box from turning into an oven while managing to make the engine struggle on the long climbs.

Next time I travel distance in mid summer I'm renting a car with a bigger engine. Vamos-chan is a trooper but I don't want to break her.


Have the aircon coolant replaced /topped the HFC134a seems to enjoy seeping out ruining the efficiency of the clinate control system.

No I can confirm that in a kei one box the air conditioner takes a lot out of the engine, and mine has a supercharger and a manual transmission so the automatic Vamoses will be worse.
Rear window defrosters in keis are also notoriously poor performing: they are designed not to tax the alternator, but give us some visibility please!
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby wuchan » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:23 am

matsuki wrote:
Samurai_Jerk wrote:
matsuki wrote:...and yet I know waaaay too many people who's baba/jiji parents refuse to use AC


The irony is they think AC is what will kill them. Of course some of them are just too poor to run up their electric bills.


THIS!

They go on and on about how it's bad for your health. If they're too poor, that's one thing...but most of the time it's either too cheap or insane



try explaining this chart to the cool biz crowd..... for some strange reason the locals seem to think it's black magic or something.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Wage Slave » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:30 am

Not black magic but not very good science either. For one thing that graph is missing the origin and 80% of it's scale - A very old trick but a good one. And one allows huge exaggeration of a small variation.

Secondly it comes from a single study done at a single company in Finland. Finland has a near arctic climate - Generalising from Finnish workers accustomed to a near arctic climate to Japanese workers is a nonsense.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:33 am

This is why women shouldn't be allowed in the workforce.

Women, There's A Reason Why You're Shivering In The Office

Even while sitting quietly at a desk, the human body is working to keep everything running smoothly — the brain churning, blood flowing and vital organs at a cozy 98.6 degrees Fahrenheit. It has to work harder if the temperature isn't quite right.

"Basically if you are sitting in an office and the temperature is neutral, then your body is able to completely control or maintain core temperature only by changing skin blood flow," says Kingma.

If the temperature is just a little too cold, the body starts making tweaks to preserve heat. Vessels will keep blood closer to the body's core, leaving hands, feet and nose cold and pale. The person might feel the urge to grab a sweater or boil up some tea.

In general, women feel colder than men do at the same air temperature. They prefer rooms at 77 degrees Fahrenheit, while men prefer 72. Body size and fat-to-muscle ratios are largely to blame for that discrepancy.

"Fat cells produce less heat than muscle cells," explains Kingma, which is why women's higher fat-to-muscle ratio can make a difference. Plus women tend to be smaller than men, so "in general, women have a lower resting metabolic rate than males."


77 F (25 C) would be heaven to a lot of us in Japan.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby wuchan » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:38 am

Wage Slave wrote:Not black magic but not very good science either. For one thing that graph is missing the origin and 80% of it's scale - A very old trick but a good one. And one allows huge exaggeration of a small variation.

Secondly it comes from a single study done at a single company in Finland. Finland has a near arctic climate - Generalising from Finnish workers accustomed to a near arctic climate to Japanese workers is a nonsense.


so, you like your balls moist?


EDIT: NASA came up with similar results.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:56 am

Wage Slave wrote:Not black magic but not very good science either. For one thing that graph is missing the origin and 80% of it's scale - A very old trick but a good one. And one allows huge exaggeration of a small variation.

Secondly it comes from a single study done at a single company in Finland. Finland has a near arctic climate - Generalising from Finnish workers accustomed to a near arctic climate to Japanese workers is a nonsense.


No the Japanese aversion to air conditioning is nonsense and these delicate little women should stay the fuck home if they can't even hack a balmy 25 C at the office.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Wage Slave » Fri Aug 07, 2015 9:58 am

And it shows the difference between 28 degrees and , say 24, is small. Maybe a few percent. Factor in some fans to keep the air moving and appropriate clothing (Cool Biz if you like), and a population used to a Mediterranean climate and its reasonable to knock a bit off that.

On the other hand, a reasonable estimate of cost is that the extra energy required to lower the temperature by one degree is 10%. So to reduce the temperature from 28 degrees to 24% will cost 40% more.

By all means you can say you think 28 degrees is unbearable for your balls and it has to be reduced in spite of the cost. However, you can't claim that it saves money - It costs quite a lot and the benefit in increased productivity is not shown to be very significant.

Above 28 degrees is another story.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:05 am

Wage Slave wrote:And it shows the difference between 28 degrees and , say 24, is small. Maybe a few percent. Factor in some fans to keep the air moving and appropriate clothing (Cool Biz if you like), and a population used to a Mediterranean climate and its reasonable to knock a bit off that.

On the other hand, a reasonable estimate of cost is that the extra energy required to lower the temperature by one degree is 10%. So to reduce the temperature from 28 degrees to 24% will cost 40% more.

By all means you can say you think 28 degrees is unbearable for your balls and it has to be reduced in spite of the cost. However, you can't claim that it saves money - It costs quite a lot and the benefit in increased productivity is not shown to be very significant.

Above 28 degrees is another story.


All I give a fuck about is my comfort but everything I've read has said that cool biz has been a failure. It doesn't save money and it doesn't save energy but it does hurt productivity. What I've read could be bullshit but it's what I've read. We all know that the real problem is shitty building design but that can't be changed overnight.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Wage Slave » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:20 am

Samurai_Jerk wrote:All I give a fuck about is my comfort


Which is perfectly reasonable. However, you are not the bill payer at work. Shareholders, owners and taxpayers take a view that all they give a fuck about is maximising profit and/or efficiency.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:35 am

Wage Slave wrote:
Samurai_Jerk wrote:All I give a fuck about is my comfort


Which is perfectly reasonable. However, you are not the bill payer at work. Shareholders, owners and taxpayers take a view that all they give a fuck about is maximising profit and/or efficiency.


In Japan?

:keyboardcoffee:

So are the studies I've read about all bullshit?
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Wage Slave » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:43 am

I'd need to see the studies.

As a taxpayer are you happy to spend 40% more to cool government offices in exchange for the increased comfort and marginal productivity of public workers?
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:49 am

Wage Slave wrote:I'd need to see the studies.

As a taxpayer are you happy to spend 40% more to cool government offices in exchange for the increased comfort and marginal productivity of public workers?


No. I think we should pay them all minimum wage and not give them pensions or healthcare. As a matter of fact we should use conscripts who can't quit till they've done 10 years of service. That would save us lots of money. :rolleyes:
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Wage Slave » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:52 am

Samurai_Jerk wrote:
Wage Slave wrote:I'd need to see the studies.

As a taxpayer are you happy to spend 40% more to cool government offices in exchange for the increased comfort and marginal productivity of public workers?


No. I think we should pay them all minimum wage and not give them pensions or healthcare. As a matter of fact we should use conscripts who can't quit till they've done 10 years of service. That would save us lots of money. :rolleyes:


:rolleyes: indeed. An office working temperature of 28 degrees is not unreasonable. A lot of workers would take it in a flash.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:58 am

Wage Slave wrote:
Samurai_Jerk wrote:
Wage Slave wrote:I'd need to see the studies.

As a taxpayer are you happy to spend 40% more to cool government offices in exchange for the increased comfort and marginal productivity of public workers?


No. I think we should pay them all minimum wage and not give them pensions or healthcare. As a matter of fact we should use conscripts who can't quit till they've done 10 years of service. That would save us lots of money. :rolleyes:


:rolleyes: indeed. An office working temperature of 28 degrees is not unreasonable. A lot of workers would take it in a flash.


The AC is set to 28 but the offices are often much hotter.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby kurogane » Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:07 am

I despise strong A/C, but that is a really good point about the buildings: they are heat traps. One can wear all the gauzy linen and open collar Uniqlo they want but it won't change the fact that a ferroconcrete monstrosity with no working windows and built without any attention to the daily path of the sun or the circulation of ambient heat is never going to be all that pleasant without pumping it full of industrially cooled or heated air.

BTW, after a breaking in (or down) period I learned to function well enough in no A/C 32-ish heat, but that was an Okinawan bungalow with decent enough air exchange. The main problem is this aseasonal notion of productivity that establishes untenable uniformities regardless of circumstances. There's cycles and seasons and ups and downs that we should just get reaccustomed to.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby wuchan » Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:29 am

Wage Slave wrote:And it shows the difference between 28 degrees and , say 24, is small. Maybe a few percent. Factor in some fans to keep the air moving and appropriate clothing (Cool Biz if you like), and a population used to a Mediterranean climate and its reasonable to knock a bit off that.

On the other hand, a reasonable estimate of cost is that the extra energy required to lower the temperature by one degree is 10%. So to reduce the temperature from 28 degrees to 24% will cost 40% more.

By all means you can say you think 28 degrees is unbearable for your balls and it has to be reduced in spite of the cost. However, you can't claim that it saves money - It costs quite a lot and the benefit in increased productivity is not shown to be very significant.

Above 28 degrees is another story.


40% more is bullshit. It's more like 15%.

Even at 40% more energy cost, 5% lost productivity in a building with 1,000 salary workers would be far more costly.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby matsuki » Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:41 am

Samurai_Jerk wrote:We all know that the real problem is shitty building design but that can't be changed overnight.


THIS

I still can't believe how many locals think insulation is only for keeping heat in....
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Mike Oxlong » Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:50 am

matsuki wrote:
Samurai_Jerk wrote:We all know that the real problem is shitty building design but that can't be changed overnight.


THIS

I still can't believe how many locals think insulation is only for keeping heat in....

Even after you ask them how fridges stay cool. :wall:
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby kurogane » Fri Aug 07, 2015 11:57 am

Clever, but somewhat meanhearted in MYHOMO :biggrin2: . My grandfather taught us it was the ice fairies.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Coligny » Fri Aug 07, 2015 12:25 pm

Wage Slave wrote:And it shows the difference between 28 degrees and , say 24, is small. Maybe a few percent. Factor in some fans to keep the air moving and appropriate clothing (Cool Biz if you like), and a population used to a Mediterranean climate and its reasonable to knock a bit off that.

On the other hand, a reasonable estimate of cost is that the extra energy required to lower the temperature by one degree is 10%. So to reduce the temperature from 28 degrees to 24% will cost 40% more.

By all means you can say you think 28 degrees is unbearable for your balls and it has to be reduced in spite of the cost. However, you can't claim that it saves money - It costs quite a lot and the benefit in increased productivity is not shown to be very significant.

Above 28 degrees is another story.


One thing not to forget... The cost of running AC at a temperature high enough to save energy but also too high to give any result in boosted comfort or productivity. Like pissing in a tidal wave. If you turn in a system but think you are smart and muney savy by running it below the point were it produce any -human- result you are just wasting money, energy and smugness.
Between 26 and 30 you are not creating a work environment. Just a place were life forms can survive. Between 30 and 35 yo are pushing the limit of survvability and excluding older people,mkids or weaker people. Over 35 you ar just trying to kill everyone, but congrats on lowering your electricity bill.

I'm a little perplexed by the whole female with more fat than muscle are cold in higher temp... Fatties overheat and sweat... And by observing felines i come to the same results... The fatties here don't like the heat, the tortie with 2.2kg of muscle start thriving at 30° and over.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Wage Slave » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:01 pm

It's clearly all very subjective and measuring productivity in an office environment is more akin to art than science. In addition assessing cost savings will also be very much on a case by case basis. However, personally, I feel perfectly productive doing non physical work in a temperature of 28 degrees provided I'm not wearing a jacket and tie and provided the air is being moved around a bit. I suspect the vast majority of Japanese people agree with that view and I don't hear many complaints that's for sure.

I don't have access to the studies that underlie the Cool Biz policy or the appraisals. However, I am prepared to believe that the studies have been done and that they validate the policy - Japan may not excel at everything but is usually given credit for doing that kind of research pretty well. However, there may be studies out there that show the policy is misinformed and costs more than the energy it saves. I'd be interested to hear of them - and I am happy to change my view if the evidence is there.

If offices are not really being cooled to 28 degrees and there isn't sufficient air circulation then that office is not compliant with Cool Biz. The answer to that is to ensure the cooling system is upgraded and/or fans are deployed to move the air. It doesn't prove the policy is wrong.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby yanpa » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:13 pm

Is there any truth to the rumour flying around that it's currently atsui?
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:19 pm

Wage Slave wrote:I suspect the vast majority of Japanese people agree with that view and I don't hear many complaints that's for sure.


I hear tons of complaints from Japanese men. My office doesn't even do cool biz and we can dress casually (as in shorts, t-shirts, and sandals casual) when we aren't meeting customers and a lot the guys still complain.

If offices are not really being cooled to 28 degrees and there isn't sufficient air circulation then that office is not compliant with Cool Biz. The answer to that is to ensure the cooling system is upgraded and/or fans are deployed to move the air. It doesn't prove the policy is wrong.


Then a lot of them aren't compliant. The other thing that people forget about is that no matter how much they push the cool biz dress code, people in customer facing jobs like sales still often have to wear a suit and tie. Even if you can wear a short sleeved shirt under your jacket and take it and your tie off in the office, you're still in wool pants all day long and it fucking sucks. The other issue is when you try to get air circulating with fans the women start complaining about that too. Of course they have no problem cranking the heat up when the temperature dips below 18.
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby matsuki » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:27 pm

Wage Slave wrote:If offices are not really being cooled to 28 degrees and there isn't sufficient air circulation then that office is not compliant with Cool Biz. The answer to that is to ensure the cooling system is upgraded and/or fans are deployed to move the air. It doesn't prove the policy is wrong.


I think they just set the AC to 28 and give no more thought to it.

What saddens me are the stories of people bringing in solar-powered portable fans or AC units to the workplace and being reprimanded over it because "it makes the workplace look bad." :roll:
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Re: The Weather Thread.

Postby Samurai_Jerk » Fri Aug 07, 2015 1:32 pm

The fan thing reminds me that I read somewhere that a lot offices end up using more energy because so many people bring in desk fans to keep cool that they'd be better off banning fans and turning the temp down on the AC units. I'm not sure if I buy that though.
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