NJR: Shootings at Virginia Tech Worst in US History

[Mike Oxlong]

The kids in my JHS carry box cutters as the weapon of choice. At least I know they're packing, and can deal with a knife wielding kid one-on-one. Some kid packing a Glock would likely have the edge.

[kurohinge1]

This site has some interesting stats and this quote:

Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed.

On average, guns in the US are killing 82 people a day - that's about 1 every 18 minutes.

. . . While handguns account for only one-third of all firearms owned in the United States, they account for more than two-thirds of all firearm-related deaths each year. A gun kept in the home is 22 times more likely to be used in a homicide, suicide or unintentional shooting than to be used in self-defense . . .

. . . A gun in the home increases the risk of homicide of a household member by 3 times and the risk of suicide by 5 times compared to homes where no gun is present . . .

. . . Contrary to popular belief, young children do possess the physical strength to fire a gun: 25% of 3-to-4-year-olds, 70% of 5-to-6-year-olds, and 90% of 7-to-8-year-olds can fire most handguns . . .

. . . Among 26 industrialized nations, 86% of gun deaths among children under age 15 occurred in the United States . . .

. . . Taxpayers pay more than 85% of the medical cost for treatment of firearm-related injuries . . .

. . . Every two years more Americans die from firearm injuries than the total number of American soldiers killed during the 8-year Vietnam War. In 2003, the total number of people killed by guns in the United States was 30,136 . . .

. . . In the U.S:
39% Number of teens who said they know someone who has been shot
37% of teenagers could get a handgun "if I really wanted to"
27% know of a handgun kept in their house, apartment or car
56% do not want armed security guards patrolling their schools
90% do not believe that teachers and principals should be able to "bring handguns to school to protect students" . . . more

While I don't presume that any one measure will fix the whole problem, I would have thought that any measures taken to reduce the 82 or so people dying a day would be an improvement on the current situation - especially, say, for tomorrow's 82 victims and their families. Banning guns would save a whole lot of lives, and heartache.

[Greji]

This site has some interesting stats and this quote:Banning guns would save a whole lot of lives, and heartache.

Kuro, you and Lurk pose a very good point. My point is like AK's, it makes for a wonderful idea, but it is too late.

Banning guns will not take them out of the hands of the majority of the perps, or for that matter gun lovers. Either by hiding them out, or buying them on the blackmarket that will inevitablely result, a bad guy will always having access to a banger.

As I said, it is a noble thought, but I just don't belive it can be workable. The UK did effect such laws, which was admirable to just get the laws passed. Japan had to lose the war, in order to have a handgun and severe rifle/shotgun control laws dictated to it.

Again, nice thought, but a non-starter.

[kurohinge1]

Kuro, you and Lurk pose a very good point. My point is like AK's, it makes for a wonderful idea, but it is too late . . .

It's too late for today's 82 victims, and tomorrow's 82 victims, and probably the 574 to be killed next week, but maybe some of the 30,000 or so that will die in 2008 can be saved.

If a ban, or tighter controls, can save even one small and curious child from an accidental shooting, wouldn't that be worth it?

[Greji]

If a ban, or tighter controls, can save even one small and curious child from an accidental shooting, wouldn't that be worth it?

Nobody can argue against that point, Kuro. However, the actual fact is, there are many local and federal statutes already on the books for gun controls, abeit, stronger in some states than others and new ones are not going to do any more to "save even one small and curious child".

It is probably most problematic that the existing laws are not totally or equally enforced. Some states do have major sentencing inclusions if a gun is used in the commission of an offense.

I would think that the pushing the enforcement/sentencing provisions already enacted, would be much more productive than adding new and without enforcement, probably meaningless laws.

[kurohinge1]

. . . new [laws] are not going to do any more to "save even one small and curious child".

. . . I would think that the pushing the enforcement/sentencing provisions already enacted, would be much more productive than adding new and without enforcement, probably meaningless laws . . .

G-man, you've put a very narrow spin on our points (and I hope FGL doesn't mind me speaking on his behalf here). I don't believe either of us suggested only new laws, and laws that wouldn't be enforced!

And your argument that new laws won't even save one kid is just untenable.

Any restrictions on access to guns, no matter how they are implemented, are bound to save lives. The more restrictions, and the better they are implemented, the more that will be saved.

[Hokgwai]

Why do I get feeling this is going to get worse?

[Tsuru]

What? The argument or its subject?

[GuyJean]

If America needs gun control then Japan needs gasoline control... And knife control..

America needs self control.. Gluttony oozes from almost every aspect of the culture, including it's choreographed public display of sorrow. Blecchh!..

And, why is this shit-head being glamorized?



GJ

[GomiGirl]

And, why is this shit-head being glamorized?



GJ

I was thinking the same thing this morning while watching CNN. Showing this stuff is just giving him what he wanted - glory in death. I think it would be best to NOT show his photos as it is only going to encourage other muppets to go out in a blaze of bullets and take others with them for their own 15 minutes of fame.

Plus I was ready to throw things at the TV screen this morning. Arguments for and against gun control. I remember in Australia after Port Arthur Massacre that the public was so outraged/saddened/scared that everybody voluntarily gave up their guns before stricter gun controls were introduced.

However, it seems that this sort of rampage is so common in the US, we all are just waiting for news of the next one. It is almost like a habit or something to aim for for nutters.

It reminds me of the number of jumpers on the Chou line, or stabbing attacks on parents here in Japan. It is so common and so widely publicised that it is the first thing that people think of when they lose it as they have been given the idea from the number of people who have gone before them.

I am not saying that news should be censored but that some restraint shown in the news feeding frenzy following a tragedy. It gives people (nutters) the idea.

I would like to see a study in trends of this sort of thing over countries. ie when people go postal in the US, they get a gun and shoot people, in the UK they make a bomb and put it on public transport, in Japan they jump under trains or dismember a family member, in Australia they drive their cars too fast and cause accidents. Is tragedy becoming cultural?

Isn't the phrase "going postal" cos of a postal worker in the US who shot everybody at work cos he was fired or disgruntled?

"I don't like Mondays"

[Catoneinutica]

this is Kimchi quarity!

Yeah, that's a charming cartoon. The Korean press is all heart. I don't think most Americans realize how fashionable America-bashing is in Korea. If they did, they might be inclined to not buy Korean exports.

And to think Big Daddy USA saved S. Koreans from lives of NORK-style dirt-eating.

[Buraku]

[Takechanpoo]

I believe wholeheartedly this event should be discussed by focusing on Korean personality or genes.

1.Extraordinary Jealousy = grudge or hostility against rich men
2.Inferiority Complex
3.Persecution Complex
4.Narcissism
5.Emotional Instability
6.Attachment to women
7.Imitation
8.Impulsive Violence = Hwabyung
9.Shifting Responsibility
[YT]Ywxp8wRz0Dc[/YT]

These features are Korean itself!!!!!!!
Sons of Chrysanthemum have suffered the same thing since we reluctantly made Kimchi peninsula our colony.

[Tsuru]

Warms your heart doesn't it?

[Greji]

Sons of Chrysanthemum have suffered the same thing since we reluctantly made Kimchi peninsula our colony.

Yeah, it was certainly a shame that that little stunt, coupled with a few other trivial things your fellas did around the Pacific area, that earned your Chrysanthemun crowd the couple of megatons, which were layed lightly on top of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. But of course even though you wouldn't understand the true lesson provided there, you might want to bow your head, lean down and kiss your little Chrysanthemun that you and the rest of your flower strain are now not an extinct species.

[kamome]

I was thinking the same thing this morning while watching CNN. Showing this stuff is just giving him what he wanted - glory in death. I think it would be best to NOT show his photos as it is only going to encourage other muppets to go out in a blaze of bullets and take others with them for their own 15 minutes of fame.

Plus I was ready to throw things at the TV screen this morning. Arguments for and against gun control. I remember in Australia after Port Arthur Massacre that the public was so outraged/saddened/scared that everybody voluntarily gave up their guns before stricter gun controls were introduced.

However, it seems that this sort of rampage is so common in the US, we all are just waiting for news of the next one. It is almost like a habit or something to aim for for nutters.

It reminds me of the number of jumpers on the Chou line, or stabbing attacks on parents here in Japan. It is so common and so widely publicised that it is the first thing that people think of when they lose it as they have been given the idea from the number of people who have gone before them.

I am not saying that news should be censored but that some restraint shown in the news feeding frenzy following a tragedy. It gives people (nutters) the idea.

I would like to see a study in trends of this sort of thing over countries. ie when people go postal in the US, they get a gun and shoot people, in the UK they make a bomb and put it on public transport, in Japan they jump under trains or dismember a family member, in Australia they drive their cars too fast and cause accidents. Is tragedy becoming cultural?

Isn't the phrase "going postal" cos of a postal worker in the US who shot everybody at work cos he was fired or disgruntled?

"I don't like Mondays"

You're absolutely right, GG. I was swearing at the TV last night watching Keith Olbermann's show. He had on an FBI profiler who was saying that the media should show restraint by not showing Cho's video or else risk energizing the next would-be attacker. Then Keith agrees but immediately goes and replays the video again! Wtf?

The media is obviously trying to get as much ratings mileage out of this as it can. This tragedy is custom-tailored to keep people watching - close-ups of tearful students, homemade videos of SWAT teams moving on campus, opportunities to psychoanalyze a killer, reminders of Columbine, etc.

Also, why aren't we grieving the same way for the people who are dying in Iraq? Iraq just suffered a suicide bombing that killed 5 times as many people. And the US has lost well over 3,000 troops. Olbermann was asking this question last night.

[blackcat]

"Also, why aren't we grieving the same way for the people who are dying in Iraq? Iraq just suffered a suicide bombing that killed 5 times as many people"

this is THE point world over, we all know that people of the wealthy countries tend to think there is a pecking order in the value of a human life, rich more valuable than poor, white/black/asian etc.

I think the real reason is that ALL people from the countries that are in Iraq now know deep down that it is wrong, but they don't want to admit it. Too close to home, same as the "take a poo" type cocksuckers, what japan has done to korea makes this guy look mild. Will you ever hear a Japanese say that?

riiiight.

Every nation are pretty much obsessed with themselves.

[Takechanpoo]

This bitch is a Korean living in japan.

it is said "If the Korean student(Cho) did the shooting rampage in Japan, he would be a hero."
but this article was already deleted.
this is very Kimchi quarity.

[Takechanpoo]

[kamome]

This bitch is a Korean living in japan.

Takeapoo,

Can you translate the whole page? The kanji are difficult to read but I'd be interested in understanding what she wrote.

[AssKissinger]

This got me thinking about this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_school_hostage_crisis

[Greji]

I'd be interested in understanding what she wrote.

She wrote the truth. That's what Taketamaless is pissed about.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Someone with better Japanese please help me. In that post the Korean wrote posted above by Takechan, what exactly does the last sentence mean? Is she saying RIP to the would be hero meaning this guy who just shot all the folks in Virginia?

[Takechanpoo]

Takeapoo,

Can you translate the whole page? The kanji are difficult to read but I'd be interested in understanding what she wrote.

by my extraordinary terrible engRish?
wait a minuite

[Takechanpoo]

I kindly translated.......
danm!!

"I feel regrettably about this shooting rampage.
If the korean student did this shooting rampage in Japan's University,
he would become a hero.
He must have been a hero who are handed down in Korea forever like An Jung-geun who shooted Ito Hirobumi to death.
Japan deprived 1 million korean life by coloniarization, aggressive war and military sex slavery.
Compared to Sin commited by Japan, even shooting 30 or so to death is too tiny thing.
If this shooting rampage was happened in Japan, the korean student was absoultely accepted as a hero in Korea without commiting suicide.
I pray him for his happiness in the next world, whom he missed becoming a hero."

I have no confidence about last sentence.

[AssKissinger]

Armed Miss America 1944 stops intruder Fri Apr 20, 8:16 PM ET



Miss America 1944 has a talent that likely has never appeared on a beauty pageant stage: She fired a handgun to shoot out a vehicle's tires and stop an intruder.

Venus Ramey, 82, confronted a man on her farm in south-central Kentucky last week after she saw her dog run into a storage building where thieves had previously made off with old farm equipment.

Ramey said the man told her he would leave. "I said, 'Oh, no you won't,' and I shot their tires so they couldn't leave," Ramey said.

She had to balance on her walker as she pulled out a snub-nosed .38-caliber handgun.

"I didn't even think twice. I just went and did it," she said. "If they'd even dared come close to me, they'd be 6 feet under by now."

Ramey then flagged down a passing motorist, who called 911.

Curtis Parrish of Ohio was charged with misdemeanor trespassing, Deputy Dan Gilliam said. The man's hometown wasn't immediately available. Three other people were questioned but were not arrested.

After winning the pageant with her singing, dancing and comedic talents, Ramey sold war bonds and her picture was adorned on a B-17 that made missions over Germany in World War II, according to the Miss America Web site.

Ramey lived in Cincinnati for several years and was instrumental in helping rejuvenate Over-the-Rhine historic buildings. She returned to Kentucky in 1990 to live on her farm.

"I'm trying to live a quiet, peaceful life and stay out of trouble, and all it is, is one thing after another," she said.

___

[Uhhuh35]

Yeah, banning handguns makes everything safer.

"Columbine gun-free zone, New York City pizza shop gun-free zone, Luby's Cafeteria gun-free zone, Amish school in Pennsylvania gun-free zone and now Virginia Tech gun-free zone."
http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/04/19/commentary.nugent/index.html

Hmm, gun bans don't seem to have worked. And I can tell some of you are disappointed that the shooter wasn't a white male. Is that racism or self-loathing?

And why hasn't anyone in this thread blamed George Bush for all this? You guys are really slipping on this.

"...America had best wake up real fast that the brain-dead celebration of unarmed helplessness will get you killed every time..."

[GuyJean]

[GuyJean]

Yeah, banning handguns makes everything safer.

"Columbine gun-free zone, New York City pizza shop gun-free zone, Luby's Cafeteria gun-free zone, Amish school in Pennsylvania gun-free zone and now Virginia Tech gun-free zone."..

And the world would be safer if all countries had nukes; If every country had the equal ability to 'protect' itself, rogue nations would think twice before an act of aggression.. I keep trying to get that point across, but no one's listening.

GJ

[AssKissinger]

Nukes tend to have a bit more collateral damage than pistols.