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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ Gaijin Ghetto

Warning: Employers can and will screw you in Japan

Groovin' in the Gaijin Gulag
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Warning: Employers can and will screw you in Japan

Postby kamome » Fri Oct 25, 2002 12:04 am

I have been screwed so hard by my job, I'm numb. Just got the word that they're giving me a pay cut based on the results of a performance review that came out only a month ago. No opportunity to defend myself, no warning or communication from the Japanese bosses, no second chances. Just a big pay cut and an ultimatum: take it or leave the company.

And I don't work for an English school either. This is a global, highly regarded company that supposedly has a reputation for treating its employees well. It's just that the Tokyo office is in its own world and the partners are not beholden to the rules of fairness and good management that you would see in the West. I would love to smear the company name, but I don't want to risk being identified--yet.

I suspect that many people who work for a large multinational in Tokyo find that their office is the black sheep in the global structure. The Japanese always have to be different, and things always have to be more difficult in Japan than anywhere else. Well, that applies to labor practices as well.

Contracts are not necessarily honored here and gaijin are not always protected, especially if Japanese managers have the power over personnel decisions in your company. As an expatriate, you can quickly find yourself fucked and far from home.

Lessons to remember:

1) Don't start your career in Japan. You may not get the training you need.

2) Even if you are an experienced professional and moving to Japan to "further your career", you can find that you remain stagnant while your colleagues in your home country are moving forward.

3) If you are offered a position in Japan, clarify exactly what role you will play in the company/firm and how they expect you to contribute.

4) Negotiate aggressively to get the most favorable contract you can. Remember, you are at a disadvantage once you go overseas. While you're at it, make sure the terms of your contract are clear and unambiguous.

5) ABSOLUTELY make sure that they don't tie you down to a long contract period. It should be short--two or three years at the most, before getting the option to return to your home country. This is important in case you suddenly realize that your situation sucks.
YBF is as ageless as time itself.--Cranky Bastard, 7/23/08

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There is no such category as "low" when classifying your basic Asian Beaver. There is only excellent and magnifico!--Greji, 1/7/06
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Re: Warning: Employers can and will screw you in Japan

Postby cstaylor » Fri Oct 25, 2002 12:16 am

kamome wrote:Just a big pay cut and an ultimatum: take it or leave the company
Sorry to hear it. If you don't mind me asking, what performance metrics were you failing to meet? I've seen this used back home as a tactic to downsize without paying unemployment or severance... and the trick that I've heard (at least in the U.S.) works the best is to inform your employers that reduced money means reduced output, and if they really want you to leave the company they should pay you to do so... start floating that resume now. A collegue of mine was in a similar position, but at least in California you need a real reason to fire someone, so he just kept his head down and did the bare minimum until the company went under and they laid everyone off. 8O
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Re: Warning: Employers can and will screw you in Japan

Postby Steve Bildermann » Fri Oct 25, 2002 3:19 am

kamome wrote:I have been screwed so hard by my job, I'm numb. Just got the word that they're giving me a pay cut based on the results of a performance review that came out only a month ago. No opportunity to defend myself, no warning or communication from the Japanese bosses, no second chances. Just a big pay cut and an ultimatum: take it or leave the company.

First off I'm very sorry to hear about that Kamome. A pay cut is always tough but especially in Japan where gaijin may not have a good support system (extended family/ old friends) to tough it out until things improve.

I can give you some good tactical advice but a first couple of questions. Is the company a western one or a Japanese? Do you intend to stay with them or not?

What you do in the next few days and the results obtained will depend on those two answers.
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Postby gomichild » Fri Oct 25, 2002 4:18 am

poor kamome... I had a wrangle with my last Japanese employer that was very messy...keep your chin up!
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OOpps I am a bit late to see this.....

Postby GomiGirl » Fri Oct 25, 2002 3:34 pm

Kamome,

I have only just seen your post... I am sorry to hear that you have been treated so badly. This is most sincere.

Being shat on at work is bad - simply bad. What will you do? Is there any recourse?

I sincerely hope things work out for the best.
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Postby gaijinzilla » Fri Oct 25, 2002 4:45 pm

Even a lot of Japanese who work for big multinationals get the shafted quite often by their employers....just ask my wife!! She works for a very very very famous US company (which I will decline to mention for the time being) as an OL since the late 1980s. A few years ago the HeadOffice in the States told the HO in Tokyo to start cutting jobs across Japan because profits were down. So what they did was eliminate all the OL jobs and many of the sales positions. The OLs could quite outright or if they continued working they would be working for an out-sourcing company. Either way they all got a severance pay package which was OK, but nothing compared to what some of the sararimen were getting (you have to realize that in my wife's case her office consited of 5 people, her & 4 salesmen. If she missed a day of work she'd have to spend a week working overtime because the salesmen were not able to do her job...no, not making and serving tea!...but just as simple, sending all the day's paperwork via computer to the head regional office or to Tokyo). Anyhow she opted to continue working, so she was being paid by the out-sourcing company (slightly less per month, but she was told she wouldn't have to work overtime anymore). What do we find out..the out-sourcing company IS OWNED by her company and she still ahs to put in quite a bit of overtime. Still she is lucky, because all the salesmen didn't have the option of continuing working. Here's your severance pay, thanks for working for us, don't let the door slam your ass on the way out. All of the salesmen who were let go were all over the age of 35.
that said though as foreigners working in japan when it comes to employment related problems we do get the shit-end of the stick in most cases I know I've been there more often than not!


Steve Bildermann: good to see you back safe and sound!
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Postby kamome » Fri Oct 25, 2002 6:17 pm

Hey guys, I very much appreciate the show of sympathy. To answer everyone's questions:

If you don't mind me asking, what performance metrics were you failing to meet?


This is a tough question to answer in a nutshell. It was a combination of lower than expected billable hours, gaps in my educational background, a perception that I didn't engage in "self-development", etc. But to leave it at that would be oversimplifying my situation. The managers at my company gave little support or opportunities to learn and develop on the job. So I can't say I should be held responsible for everything they are blaming me for. It also doesn't excuse the lack of communication--I just walked in the other day and they unceremoniously gave me a payslip with a lower number. It was only afterwards that they explained their decision making process, which of course is already ex post facto and leaves me with no recourse.

I can give you some good tactical advice but a first couple of questions. Is the company a western one or a Japanese? Do you intend to stay with them or not?


It is a Western one, but the Japanese are the real power brokers in the office. Expat workers, even top managers, cannot make personnel/hiring/firing decisions without approval from their Japanese counterparts.

At this point, I am sure I will not stay with the company. I had been thinking of leaving anyway for other reasons, but this has made my decision for me. How can anyone work for a company that treats its employees like this, you know?

Being shat on at work is bad - simply bad. What will you do? Is there any recourse?


Well, I am pretty sure that I will leave the company. Before doing so, I plan to submit a letter lodging an official protest re: my treatment with all parties concerned locally and in the global structure. I'll probably submit it along with a letter of resignation next month. I am also considering legal recourse to see if this is a violation of the employer's contractual obligations to me and of Japanese labor laws.

The cut isn't so extreme as to put me in a precarious position--it's more of a slap in the face. I'll bounce back, but I want to slap them back too. I wonder if there's any other recourse besides a lawsuit and a letter of complaint.
YBF is as ageless as time itself.--Cranky Bastard, 7/23/08

FG is my WaiWai--baka tono 6/26/08

There is no such category as "low" when classifying your basic Asian Beaver. There is only excellent and magnifico!--Greji, 1/7/06
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Life can be miserable if you fight them.

Postby Blah Pete » Sat Oct 26, 2002 9:08 am

Kamame,
Know how you feel. Two years ago I worked for a Japanese company as a contract worker (salary, bonuses specified in contract).
One day I came to work and everybody was a kind of silent. Find out the management had cut everyones salary 10%. I thought that I would be OK since I had a contract. Payday came and found out that they had cut my pay too. I went straight to management and complained, breach of contract, etc. Management said it was for the survival of the company, all other employees had agreed, etc.
Management was against me after that and I was treated like I had leprosy. After two months I decided it wasn't worth putting up with their sh*t and gave notice.
I consulted a lawyer but recourse would be expensive, take a long time and I had only lost 10% of 3 months wages which wouldn't even beging to cover legal fees.

Moral of the story; if you get on the companies sh*t list sometimes it is better to walk.
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Postby Steve Bildermann » Sat Oct 26, 2002 9:42 am

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Postby GuyJean » Sat Oct 26, 2002 10:28 am

kamome wrote:Before doing so, I plan to submit a letter lodging an official protest re: my treatment with all parties concerned locally and in the global structure.

Also, let us know the company so I can start bad mouthing it.

About 10 years ago, some expats were being bent over at a 'reputable' eikaiwa. The employees organized a picket line with signs explaining in Japanese what they did and lined up outside the office every morning.. The company freaked. The 'wa' was definitely disturbed.

kamome wrote:I'll bounce back..

Yes, you will. Almost all of my acquaintances who've been 'removed' from one company, have gone on to bigger and better things and are now much happier.. Everything happens for a reason.

Keep your chin up..

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Postby kamome » Mon Oct 28, 2002 1:44 pm

Management was against me after that and I was treated like I had leprosy. After two months I decided it wasn't worth putting up with their sh*t and gave notice.
I consulted a lawyer but recourse would be expensive, take a long time and I had only lost 10% of 3 months wages which wouldn't even beging to cover legal fees.


Two points well taken. I've felt like a leper at my company (at least within my section) for a while now, and I couldn't put my finger on the reason why. That happens in Japanese companies: you can be ostracized by fellow employees and managers if they think you openly disagree with something going on in the company. Anyway, I know that making a stink with a letter will destroy any goodwill I have left. So I've decided to wait until I've made all necessary arrangements for my departure before I rock the boat.

Also, I think you're right about the legal option. I'm afraid of the legal fees, and the amount of my pay cut definitely would not cover them.

If you intended to stay I could give you several important pointers but as this is not the case the best advice is BREAK OUT as fast as possible.


Steve, I would like to leave now, but my finances are not in good enough shape to walk away so soon. I also have not made inquiries with other employers in Japan or the States. Since my best option right now is to go back to the US, I need at least a couple of months to arrange a move and find accommodations at home.

However, assuming that I will stay for a little bit longer (until the end of the year), what pointers do you have for me?

Also, let us know the company so I can start bad mouthing it.


In good time, my friend. Right now, I have to keep a low profile (I know that sounds strange, considering I've just posted my troubles on a public forum). Nevertheless, I plan to stick around for another 1.5-2 months, so I have to be patient for now.
YBF is as ageless as time itself.--Cranky Bastard, 7/23/08

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There is no such category as "low" when classifying your basic Asian Beaver. There is only excellent and magnifico!--Greji, 1/7/06
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Postby cstaylor » Mon Oct 28, 2002 1:56 pm

kamome wrote:In good time, my friend. Right now, I have to keep a low profile (I know that sounds strange, considering I've just posted my troubles on a public forum). Nevertheless, I plan to stick around for another 1.5-2 months, so I have to be patient for now
Ouch, nothing fans a manager's ego like giving a person a paycut and watching them grovel for two months... good luck to you. I had a similar situation (not a paycut, but an asshole manager assigned to me while I was on vacation), and I quit before he could fire me. 8O
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Postby kamome » Mon Oct 28, 2002 2:47 pm

Believe me, I'm not going to grovel during my last months here. I told the manager exactly what I thought about this action. If anyone else chooses to discuss it with me, I will tell them exactly what I think. The problem is, none of the managers who were responsible for this (except for one) has had the balls to confront me. They just made a decision and expect me to live with it.

That's the way Japanese organizations work, apparently. Screw the employee without his knowledge and notify him later.
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Warning: Employers can and will screw you in Japan

Postby Taro Toporific » Mon Oct 28, 2002 5:46 pm

_JUST SAY NO!_

Yes, as weird as it sounds, in Japan you always have the right to just say "no" to any job changes, wage change or attempted firing. There are many cases of employees who have staged a Sit-In strike for *years* and GOT PAID for doing nothing.

To quote sage advice from Sony's from-hanna.com . . .

What should you do if your employer unilaterally terminates your contract?

If you want to keep your job, you must state that you do not accept the firing. Stay calm; don't shout at your boss; just write a letter (on the spot if possible ) informing him/her that the firing is unfair, and that you wish to continue your employment on the same terms as before. According to Japanese law, a company must normally give thirty days' notice of termination, or pay thirty days' salary in lieu of such notice (Labor Standards Law, Article 20). However, if your employer does not offer to do this, DO NOT ask him/her to do it. If you talk about pay in lieu of notice, then you will imply that you accept the firing, and from that point on contesting it may be impossible. You can claim the pay later. Above all do not sign any document implying that you accept the firing, and if your employer offers you cash in hand for you to go away quietly, refuse it. Be aware that if you are given notice of termination, then you should not try to retaliate against your employer in any way, as doing so would deprive you of grounds for contesting the firing.

<http://www.jp.from-hanna.com/career/jmj2.html>

Good ruck.

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Postby Steve Bildermann » Mon Oct 28, 2002 6:05 pm

However, assuming that I will stay for a little bit longer (until the end of the year), what pointers do you have for me?

Sorry but I have to repeat myself, the best advice I have for you is to LEAVE as soon as possible. Get yourself into the job market before the end of the year or you'll find yourself hanging around waiting for interviews well into January or February.

If you want to get some breathing room simply go into to the management and tell them

"For the reasons I have told you my current situation and pay are not acceptable. I plan to leave at the end of the year."

That way you've got the time you want and they are on notice that you are actively moving on. Puts you on an equal footing. If they bring someone in to replace you should feel no constraint in telling them the reasons you are leaving. Again buddy you have to get yourself into a position of strength.

BTW - I am under the impression you are in the legal profession. If it's one of the big firms that have been around a long time in Japan betcha I worked for them at one time or another in the past. Keep me informed.
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Postby kamome » Wed Oct 30, 2002 7:12 pm

Steve--

I would love to do exactly what you are suggesting, but one thing is stopping me. I have it on good authority that if I send out an "unacceptability" letter now, they will terminate my contract immediately (i.e., I would have one month to pack my bags and go). For financial and other reasons, I have to stay until end of December. Thus, stating that the current situation is unacceptable would be tantamount to terminating my contract before I am financially and practically ready to leave.

By the way, I am not in a law firm, but the industry is similar. Can't go into more detail now.

Are you suggesting leaving now as a better strategy for finding a new job? Or is there some legal reason for leaving now (perhaps stating my opposition now reserves more legal avenues for the future)?

Thanks again.
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