Real Estate Agent Extortionists

[Steve Bildermann]

[tokyojoe]

I was in a similar situation a few years ago. In the end I figured that if I had to pay the money again I would move closer to my new job, which is exactly what I did. In my current place I got the shacho to be my guarantor, not the company. So when I quit that company a couple years later I didn`t have to move. That shacho is still the guarantor on my place.

The real estate industry are real bastards. I caught a news report the other night on problems with deposit/key money. They brought in a guy who specializes in such problems and helps tenants. They talked about how it is common practice for realtors to try and foist all costs on the outgoing tenant. Most people just pay, unfortunately. `Genjo fukki` does not mean return the apartment to the original state but also takes into account normal wear and tear. This specialist mentioned that govt guidelines state that most wear and tear costs are considered to be covered after 7 years by rent alone. They showed this guy going around to a client`s apartment and checking the cleaning estimate only to find that the square footage was vastly inflated and used high rates. Big surprise.

[Taro Toporific]

Does anyone have any advice about how I could possibly put up a resistance against such an unscrupulous realtor? Is there any legal recourse?

Regards ... Nat

Welcome to Japan, Nat.
Japanese realtors have been ripping off Japanese since Day One.

As sagely mentioned before by Steve Bildermann, your ward office has an ENTIRE department that deals with these problems because they are so common---use them.

[Taro Toporific]

Does anyone have any advice about how I could possibly put up a resistance against such an unscrupulous realtor? Is there any legal recourse?

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[Kyoto Gaijin]

We had a guy who joined us here who had had his previous place signed up by his company even though he had paid the whole lot.

When he joined us, they said the same thing, ie. re-do the contract and re-pay all the reikin and deposit.

All you have to do is get someone who is Japanese and knows their facts to argue with them and they will break down eventually. The law is actually on your side as a tenant in Japan and estate agents tend to try and make you think you're wrong.

As many people have mentioned, there is a whole section for this kind of stuff at your kuyakusho (or they will put you in touch with a government appointed body that is there for dealing with this kind of faff).

It *doesn't* just happen to FGs... a Japanese friend of mine was moving down to Kyoto and looking around for a place, he paid 5 man as a holding deposit to keep first option on the property for 3 days. The next day he called up to cancel and the guy kept him on the phone for an hour explaining how the 5 man was actually a straight realtor fee. Eventually he got it through to the shithole that he wanted the cash back so the realtor said, "well, we can't do that, but we can put it into a 'pool' as a pre-payment on another place that you find through us", fuck that! In the end, and after about 3 hours of hassle, my japanese friend called up the national consumer protection association and got them to phone up the realtor, after which the realtor phoned him back and said "well you didn't have to do that did you?", they then deposited the cash into my friend's bank account minus 600 yen "tesuuryou" of course, bastards... The next day I hear a story about the same realtor, they managed to get 5 man out of another friend (a girl this time) who wasn't as strong with them, f'ing bastards.

Apparently there is a black point system for realtors - you get 3, you lose your realtor license or something like that. Just threaten them with it if things get nasty, they soon wilt.

[Instant Ramen]

Thanks to everyone for your generous advice. Will visit my kuyakushou tomorrow. You'd think after 7 years in country, a master's degree from a national university, and several years biz experience with the kinds of companies that Todai grads would wet their pants to join, that I'd be considered a non-harm to society, and could rent a place all on my lonesome. F*cked up, baby society this place is!

Regards,

Major F*cked Over Gaijin
------------------------------
Kill or be killed.

[Taro Toporific]

Will visit my kuyakushou tomorrow. You'd think after 7 years in country, a master's degree from a national university, and several years biz experience with the kinds of companies that Todai grads would wet their pants to join, that I'd be considered a non-harm to society, and could rent a place all on my lonesome.l

Once again you're fighting the feudal mindset of the Japanese: A renter is a serf--you belong to land--you must never move---a serf needs a master/hoshounin. :crazy3:

[tokyojoe]

Things aren`t that different in other countries regarding ownership. If you think you own real estate in the US try not paying taxes on it for a while and you`ll find out who really owns the land.

[Taro Toporific]

Quick question, but how common are renewal fees on an apartment?

Actually, there no laws requiring payment of the renewal fee-- only social convention. My judo dai-sensei never paid them on his offices...he just snarled and the whimpy fudosan realtors would run away..

[Taro Toporific]

Quick question, but how common are renewal fees on an apartment?

Actually, there no laws requiring payment of the renewal fee-- only social convention. My judo dai-sensei never paid them on his offices...he just snarled and the whimpy fudosan realtors would run away..

OK, but what if it is in your contract?

The way it was explained to me, legally the "renewal fee" cannot be in your contract---although it can be placed in an unenforceable amendment (like the totally unenforceable amendments in every software license when you click "Accept" in the installation process). BUT then again, I am not a Japanese lawyer; ask your Ward Office's renters department for further lease help.

[Instant Ramen]

Well, it`s not just the gaijin. Japanese have the same problem. It`s tough when they move to a new city and don`t have relatives or other people to turn to.

Maybe it's not just the gaijin, though comparitively speaking we get a raw deal when it comes to matters like this - anything to do with the law.

And here's the other thing ... if Japanese also have a hard time, then where's the resistance? Where's the complaining? Where's the petitioning of government for a fairer deal for Japanese and foreigners?

I used to think it was the Japanese system that failed the people. After many years here, I now know it's the other way around. You get the system you deserve ... which is sub-standard, and works against the consumer.

Keep sucking it up Japan. You're No.1 in the world when it comes to looking the other way when confronted with injustice.

IR

[GomiGirl]

Instant Ramen, you made some interesting points in your commentary - ie the (bad?) system is a result of social inertia and lack of public pressure...

But all over the world it is a case of "let the buyer beware" and especially if you are not a local - even worse when you don't speak the local language. The number of rip-off merchants just waiting for a sucker to cross their path is a universal and timeless issue. What about the scams that relieve elderly folk of their life savings in the US? Used car dealers have a shocking reputation!! Happens all the time.

[kamome]

This month I changed employers, and my previous company will shortly cancel my contract with the realtor. A new contract has to be established, and again the realtor says they will only accept a company contract, so my new employer has to do all the paper signing.

The only reason I need a company contract in the first place is because the realtor discriminates on the basis of race and nationality.
Regards ... Nat

Why does your new company have to go through the realtor at all? Can't your old employer just assign the rental contract to your new employer with the landlord/property management company's permission?

Perhaps I'm wrong, but I thought a real estate agent was only necessary for finding a place initially. After you occupy the premises, you can just deal with the property management company directly.

[Kyoto Gaijin]

There is the other side of the coin of course:

If I was a landlord in Japan, I think I'd only rent out my property to f**ked gaijin after I'd checked them over fully, maybe even requesting more deposit money. Don't deny it, if it was *your* place you were renting out you'd *prefer* to rent it out to Japanese people.

The "reikin" is just an advance on the entire contract's rent, just in case you cancel partway through the term (you still get your deposit/shikikin back if you cancel normally), so in order to see the real monthly rent, divide the "reikin" over the period of time specified in your contract and add it to your the monthly rate. That's the only way to compare places with different rent and reikins.

As for shikikin, you can always get 80% or more of this back as long as you complain about the first "invoice" you're given. Maybe even complain about the second one they give you too.

Tatami are *wear and tear*, they apparently cannot be legally charged to you unless it is written specifically in the contract.

[GomiGirl]

Kamome - you're back!! Where have you been? We have all missed you!!! Perhaps missed the flame bait - buddy!!

We want all details - how is the job/visa etc etc.... we thought you had left Japan's shores!!

[kamome]

Kamome - you're back!! Where have you been? We have all missed you!!! Perhaps missed the flame bait - buddy!!

We want all details - how is the job/visa etc etc.... we thought you had left Japan's shores!!

Hey, I never left! Still bearing out the status quo. But I've been a bit too busy lately to post like I used to.

[Taro Toporific]

Tokyo to clean act of dirty landlordsThe Asahi Shimbun / Feb 9
For tenants tired of kissing their maintenance deposits goodbye, the Tokyo metropolitan government plans sweeping changes to the shabby system exploited by greedy landlords.
There are no clear rules on how much of the costs to clean or repair apartments should be covered by tenants' deposits.
The metropolitan government intends to adopt an ordinance that prevents landlords from overcharging tenants on their deposits. The deposits should only cover damages and stains that far exceed those expected from normal use of an apartment, officials said....more...

[kamome]

Nice to see this thread revived. Since my last post on this topic, I was reamed upon changing employers exactly as Instant Ramen was. For some reason, changing employers in Japan equates to termination of the lease on your apartment and necessitates entering into a new lease contract with your new employer as guarantor. And they do require you to pay deposit, key money, etc. all over again, PLUS one month's rent as a "realtor's fee". Pure bullshit.

I argued directly with the real estate agent in Japanese that this was patently unfair, considering I would be responsible for paying the equivalent of 4-6 months' reikin. Let me say, it's hard to argue about this stuff in Japanese, but I did it. I even threatened to move out and go to a cheaper apartment just to avoid the additional reikin. In the end, my argument worked: they waived the new reikin payment altogether! However, I still was on the hook for the one month's realtor's fee, the farkin' bastards.