Help with a Labour Lawyer

[waruta]

Hi all,

Long story short, I find myself in the middle of a contract kerfuffle, and am in need of a good contract/labor law lawyer. I don't mind so much about the fees, but more about the principle involved. Anyone know of a decent lawyer or contact that can read an English contract with a Japanese company? I myself speak decent Japanese and can explain the details.

Sorry to bother y'all with this.

Regards,

w.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Bloody difficult to navigate website, but the National Union of General Workers has, in my experience, been extraordinarily effective in dealing with gaijin-related labor issues. If they can't help you directly, they'll certainly be able to point you in the right direction.

[wagyl]

I don't mind so much about the fees, but more about the principle involved.

I can't point you in any particular direction regarding professional help for your problem, but I do offer this general advice. Decide exactly how much money you are prepared to invest in your precious principle, write it down and stick to it. This is the point where you agree to walk away from your fight. If you let your heart rule your head, let emotions overrule pragmatism, it can very easily lead to a victory you later regret as being too costly.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Your local labor standards office also provides free consultation and many of them provide free interpreters at specific times. They also have lawyers come by and do pro bono or relatively cheap consultation a couple of times a week.

[TennoChinko]

Used and recommended by a friend:


Aiba & Partners
Main Office
Kamiyacho Sankei Bldg. 4th Floor
7-2, Azabudai 1-chome, Minato-ku
Tokyo 106-0041
Japan
Tel +81 3 3568-6810
Fax+81 3 3568-6819

[tidbits]

http://www.pref.kanagawa.jp/uploaded/life/485364_863558_misc.pdf Hope it helps.

[legion]

http://www.t-pblo.jp/slaf/
5000 JPY for a half hour consultation, interpreters available, some of the lawyers can speak English.

I'd recommend everyone makes a habit of getting these lawyers to check contracts before we sign them.

I went to see them to clarify some issues I have, which we did, and to be honest I came away with the impression the problems I have are pretty tame compared to some of the shit that goes on.

In Japan the law is considered optional where we consider it absolute. The people you have an issue with will consider the law to be something that applies when it suits them, and to be avoided when it doesn't.

The lawyers are pretty clear about points of law, and the law is pretty cut an dried, but you have to ask yourself if the battle is worth fighting. I'd say fight it if it is about money, but points of principle can be left to superhero crusaders with more time than sense.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

I'd second a lot of the sage advice legion gives above.
FWIW, I've dealt way too much with lawyers and the legal system in this cuntry than I would have liked over the past four years or so. Some of the things I've learned....
* Remember why the West has lawyer jokes? Because lawyers are cunts. Japanese lawyers, even your own, are no exception, even when they are fundamentally good people.
* Document everything. Without docuumented proof, you're fucked.
* In the Japanese legal system, nobody wins, except lawyers.
* Courts will not award decent payments and whittle down any demands big-time. So, go to a pshrink and get a medical certificate certifying you are suffering from stress, depression and anxiety brought on by the unlawful handling dished out by the opposing party, continue receiving treatment and add to your demands a bill for three-times what you'll be happy to get and demand compensation for mental duress. You won't get it, but you may end up getting somewhere close to what you really want (and your lawyer will still take much of what you get).
* You get what you pay for with counsel, so if you are awarded big-time, expect to give a large swathe to your lawyer. If you don't use a pricey lawyer, I almost guarantee you are not going to be awarded big-time.
* If it's a labor issue related to a company, absolutely, never, ever get out of the corporate system until you've got what you want. If you try to fight a company from the outside, you are almost certain to end up in pain.
* Companies will act ruthlessly toward you if given the chance.
Rant over...Good luck, mate!!!

[wagyl]

You can safely remove the word "Japanese" every time you see it here. Japan does not uniquely have four seasons, and the Japanese legal system is not uniquely evil. They all are. SDH's advice applies globally, perhaps even cosmically.

[IparryU]

Hi all,

Long story short, I find myself in the middle of a contract kerfuffle, and am in need of a good contract/labor law lawyer. I don't mind so much about the fees, but more about the principle involved. Anyone know of a decent lawyer or contact that can read an English contract with a Japanese company? I myself speak decent Japanese and can explain the details.

Sorry to bother y'all with this.

Regards,

w.

I know a few guys who had this issue with head hunting firms... usually when they went to a competitor/another company and their old boss fucked the new position up some how, did not pay out commission, etc.

I would say to go all in or drop it and you will need someone (a gaiben) who is very aggressive. And SDH's advice is on the mark.

Good luck!

[Samurai_Jerk]

Another thing to keep in mind is that in Japan you can't sue for lawyer's fees in a civil case. My boss learned that the hard way when we had to take a client to court who refused to pay us. They didn't even make an excuse for it either. They just flat out refused to pay because they didn't want to so we won but the money we got only just barely covered what we owed the lawyer. It also wasted a lot of my bosses time and energy. Unless you're talking about really big money or you have enough in the money in the bank and time on your hands that you can afford to do something on principal, it's not worth it.

[IparryU]

Another thing to keep in mind is that in Japan you can't sue for lawyer's fees in a civil case.

Will keep this in the front of my head...

[sublight]

One thing to bear in mind is that, in a civil case, if you're the one being sued it's almost always in your favor to let things drag out as long as possible. You're never going to have to pay their fees, and a court is unlikely to hit you with penalties or award the other guy more than he was originally asking, so why settle quickly when the other guy is steadily paying money out to file their claims?

I realize you're the 'other guy' in this case, but that's how your opponent will likely view the matter.

We learned this when our company got threatened with a lawsuit over model's fees (we hired models for media X, the client then took our work and used it in media X,Y and Z, the agency found out and demanded we pay a ridiculous amount of money). Instead of settling immediately (which our shacho wanted to do at first), we emailed back a counter-offer that was 1/20th what they were asking and then just let them vent and fume for several weeks as they kept paying lawyer's fees, until they agreed to cut their 'losses' (they weren't actually losing a thing, even if they were in the right) and agreed to a settlement that was a lot closer to our offer than theirs (knowing the agency, the actual models had no idea any of this was going on and weren't going to get paid squat out of the settlement).

[TennoChinko]

DIY advice: http://saltocean.blogspot.jp/2009/07/suing-in-small-claims-court-in-japan.html

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

DIY advice: http://saltocean.blogspot.jp/2009/07/suing-in-small-claims-court-in-japan.html

Small Claims Tribunals are tremendous once you get in, really cheap and nearly all cases are decided in a single session.
A couple of bad factors are the amount of time it takes to get cases heard, which can be a few months depending on where you file, and the maximum sum of dispute permissible is just 1.6 million yen, so it must be a really small claim to qualify to be heard there.

[GomiGirl]

Sounds like Judge Judy!! Now is there room on J-TV for a Judge Judy type show? Wonder what sort of cases would be shown?

Noisy neighbour, Not sorting rubbish correctly, girlfriend not getting enough LV bags from boyfriend, boyfriend going into hock for girlfriend's LV collection, Otaku suing his live doll for not putting out often enough?

[Coligny]

Sounds like Judge Judy!! Now is there room on J-TV for a Judge Judy type show? Wonder what sort of cases would be shown?

Noisy neighbour, Not sorting rubbish correctly, girlfriend not getting enough LV bags from boyfriend, boyfriend going into hock for girlfriend's LV collection, Otaku suing his live doll for not putting out often enough?

MODS !!! erase dat message, she's giving them ideas...

[matsuki]

Another thing to keep in mind is that in Japan you can't sue for lawyer's fees in a civil case. My boss learned that the hard way when we had to take a client to court who refused to pay us. They didn't even make an excuse for it either. They just flat out refused to pay because they didn't want to so we won but the money we got only just barely covered what we owed the lawyer. It also wasted a lot of my bosses time and energy. Unless you're talking about really big money or you have enough in the money in the bank and time on your hands that you can afford to do something on principal, it's not worth it.

In the US, even with lawyer's fees, I've found it much more effective to just make the issue public (this is assuming I was the one wronged) and let their customers (and potential customers) put the pressure on. Nobody likes having their dirty laundry aired out in public....but TIJ and I've seen some really scummy shit go down and wanted to pull the same tactic, only to be told by everyone around me that I would be the one feeling the pressure for "bad mouthing" the offender, despite it being the easily verifiable truth. It wasn't my $$ involved nor was I liable so I ended up staying out of it but the type of scam that was pulled was pretty bold. Surprised that d00d still has his head as he seemed to be pulling the same shit on much bigger people than me.

MODS !!! erase dat message, she's giving them ideas...

C'mon, another panel terebi bangumi? How could that possibly go wrong?

[IparryU]

Sounds like Judge Judy!! Now is there room on J-TV for a Judge Judy type show? Wonder what sort of cases would be shown?

Noisy neighbour, Not sorting rubbish correctly, girlfriend not getting enough LV bags from boyfriend, boyfriend going into hock for girlfriend's LV collection, Otaku suing his live doll for not putting out often enough?

Dont forget about the noisy FG neighbor talking too loud, moving around too much, and smelling up the area.

[matsuki]

Dont forget about the noisy FG neighbor talking too loud, moving around too much, and smelling up the area.

I got yelled at yesterday because when I went to pull the covers off my sofa's pillows to be washed, it looked like I murdered a flock of pigeons...trail of white feathers flowing in the wind, all pointing right to my balcony.

Last month I had a nice color print out of the previous weeks trash being dissected. It was the plastic trash that goes out on Monday and apparently one of my lemurs had tossed her PET bottles into it instead of putting them in the bins on Wednesday...and then unfortunately for me, some plastic packing with my name and addy on it. (all this in a few haphazardly arranged pics) The bottom had some chicken scratch on it with the letters PET in there so I think it's safe to assume what the angrily written lines were trying to say....

[Coligny]

In Nagoya the bitch next door once complained because i was vacuuming at 19:50 in the evening... Then complained because i brushed away the dead leaves that entered my corridor throught the front door...

Unfortunately for her, her kid was crying in a bit of strange pattern for duration and a time that were also a bit off... She got a visit by 2 uniformed female cops tipped by a worried neighbourg. (by fax, in english, with my full email,phone and address in case youzza wondering). Never heard from her again 'xcept for one day where some sociopath went shouting against her door for a good 10 minutes... he was a mere second away from getting a taste from my "baton de justice". (ref to post revolutionnary France 'vigilante').

Another day me bitch got a call from the trash vigilante... I completely fucked up and put my burnable trash at the plastic pick up location. There was no sneakery or anything, it was a full fledged burnable bag with the burnable item color and logo on it (red owl). But the trash lady (a bit off btw) still felt the need to open it in front of me and check that everything was burnable... including cat dookies one of those times were you come to the conclusion that only an airstrike could fix the place... Everything went politely and nicely good neighbourg and shit but i made it a principle to go ring her door every fucking time I had something to discard not fitting squarely in any category. Nevar try to have the last word in madness wif' me...

[matsuki]

In Nagoya the bitch next door once complained because i was vacuuming at 19:50 in the evening... Then complained because i brushed away the dead leaves that entered my corridor throught the front door...

LOL, how the hell can you guys hear each other so well? I can't hear the Korean girls in the apartment next to me worth a damn.....believe me, I tried (and I secretly hope they can here me....between the revolving lemur door and porn, they would have a new view on round eye devil men)

Another day me bitch got a call from the trash vigilante... I completely fucked up and put my burnable trash at the plastic pick up location. There was no sneakery or anything, it was a full fledged burnable bag with the burnable item color and logo on it (red owl). But the trash lady (a bit off btw) still felt the need to open it in front of me and check that everything was burnable... including cat dookies one of those times were you come to the conclusion that only an airstrike could fix the place... Everything went politely and nicely good neighbourg and shit but i made it a principle to go ring her door every fucking time I had something to discard not fitting squarely in any category. Nevar try to have the last word in madness wif' me...

Yeah, I was just glad it wasn't one of the weeks I tossed out diapers. Those things are literally bombs waiting to explode

[IparryU]

The odd thing is... out where I live there is no bitching about what gets thrown away. There is no way in hell they could track down whose trash it was as we live in a rather large building and several restaurants also dispose of their trash there.

The inlaws did get a bit irritated of what i put in the bag... so they got an engrish poster saying when to put what out, etc..

On a side note... who has ever said, "combustible trash" back in their home cuntry?

First time I head that phrase i was like WTF? Combustible? Why the fugf would you throw gasoline away when it is this fracking expensive?

Yeah, I was just glad it wasn't one of the weeks I tossed out diapers. Those things are literally bombs waiting to explode

Say it isn't SOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't tell me you done fugged up and have a kid now?!?!??!?!?!??!

Wait... has Greji been staying at your place for the last couple of weeks?

I need to give him a call... no fuggin clue where he is.

[Coligny]

The odd thing is... out where I live there is no bitching about what gets thrown away.

Yeah... meanwhile... in Fukushima...

[Samurai_Jerk]

Say it isn't SOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't tell me you done fugged up and have a kid now?!?!??!?!?!??!

Don't worry. It's nothing like that. It's his latest girl. She's still in diapers.

[Coligny]

Don't worry. It's nothing like that. It's his latest girl. She's still in diapers.

'still' or 'back' ?

[IparryU]

:rofl:

'still' or 'back' ?

I think this is more of a, "Did he get there before the hair did?" question... and by hair... I sure the hell dont mean SDH.

But if SDH did get there before Choko... that could explain why she would have to go back to diapers.

Edit: Now what is up with all them pigeons you done killed Choko? First girls dressing up in diapers... now sacrificing pigeons... you gettin really kinky man.

[matsuki]

:rofl:

'still' or 'back' ?

I'll leave this one a mystery for now

[IparryU]

I just noticed... that this thread is about legal advise and we done spun it off into a garbage disposal thread and about Greji and Choko's lemur farm...

I love FG...