beware of propaganda

[jez]

The truth is that Islam is a hateful religion of war

Baseless insult and slander. Would you please offer some proof with your assertions. Thankyou.

Someone earlier mentioned that the United States had helped Saddam. Yes, in a misguided attempt to get Saddams assistance. But at the time there were NO security council resolutions in place

So that makes it ok? Do you need security council resolutions to have morals? Saddam was helped by western 'democracies',especially the USA, up until GW1, this despite having oppressed his own people for at least a decade, and was allowed to stay and repress the some more after GW1. So your argument is that it was ok, because there were no rules? Rules or no rules, the USA doesn't usually follow them, unless it suits it.

[DJEB]

Curse you Jez! Curse you!
Curse you for bringing me back to this site! Now that I've read everything, I am working on compiling a response. Do you realise the time and effort that entails? Curse you!

BTW, we are still on for tomorrow to try to solve the beer glut in Tokyo. The Yank is in too.

[jez]

DJEB, b with you after 6. Shall we try somewhere else than Shibuya this time...?

[DJEB]

DJEB, b with you after 6. Shall we try somewhere else than Shibuya this time...?

Yes, the Cuban joint. It opens at 7.

I'm now working on a response to this thread starting with the most egregious offense of logic...

[Resolute Optimist]

Sorry RESOLUTE OPTIMIST, I simply mis-typed...

Just as well I didn't call you Jizz :P

I suppose my description is a bit vague, but there is an article somewhere on the program, I'll have a look for it...

[jez]

Resolute Optimist,
I can't watch the news you said you saw-I suppose it was over a week ago. I am, however watching a recent edition presented by Pujadas. I don't really see what can be called pro-Saddam propaganda. Of course they show more of 'the other side' than the BBC, for example. They show Iraqis whose homes have been bombed, who have lost their families. And they show militia men figting the coalition forces. This is news, I believe. They also show Americans and British taking over in Baghdad and Basra, and being welcomed by Iraqis. When they show Iraqi officials, such as the famous 'Minister for information', it is obvious that they are spouting propaganda. I don't see any sign of propaganda coming either from Pujadas or the reporters in Iraq. I am actually quite surprised by the professional content, even if the tone is sometimes dramatic(that's just the french way-and some will remember the BBC's John Simpson's enthusiasm upon "liberating Kabul").

[jez]

Steve Bildermann wrote:
Quote:
The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) says two key Baghdad hospitals, and many other smaller ones, have been ransacked, as looting spreads across the capital

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2936721.stm

Don't believe that leftist propaganda!

Let me get this straight: is the Red Cross the source of leftist propaganda, or the bbc?

[jez]

I have tried the websites of the BBC, France2, ABC(Australia), CNN, FOX and ABC(US). The first three had free access to live or recorded news. The last three didn't. If I am wrong, please let me know. Also, if there are US media outlets which do offer free access to live/recorded news.

[jez]

Can anyone tell me if there is a national tv channel in the US?

[jez]

...how many other countries have a radio with a .gov website?

[DJEB]

Steve Bildermann wrote:
Quote:
The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) says two key Baghdad hospitals, and many other smaller ones, have been ransacked, as looting spreads across the capital

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2936721.stm

Don't believe that leftist propaganda!

Let me get this straight: is the Red Cross the source of leftist propaganda, or the bbc?

Jez, you are up too late. That was tongue in cheek by Steve.

[jez]

Sorry, it was a GJ quote. Don't know if it was tongue in cheek..

The International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC) says two key Baghdad hospitals, and many other smaller ones, have been ransacked, as looting spreads across the capital

http://newsvote.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2936721.stm

Don't believe that leftist propaganda! They're stealing medicine to care for their neighbors, since all the doctors were Baathe Party members, and have since fled :wink:
GJ

[DJEB]

So it was.

Go to bed. You need your strength to drink tomorrow!

[GuyJean]

Sorry, it was a GJ quote. Don't know if it was tongue in cheek..

Don't believe that leftist propaganda! They're stealing medicine to care for their neighbors, since all the doctors were Baathe Party members, and have since fled

It was TOTAL tongue in cheek (TTC)! The 'winking' icon usually means I'm not serious.

Of course there is propaganda from the media, and from ALL sides. But I truly believe sometimes it's the VIEWERS that are propagating to themselves; Two, very different people, from different backgrounds, with different experiences, watch the exact same images but see differently, or only what they WANT to see.. It's human nature.

GJ

[Steve Bildermann]

[GuyJean]

I just got email calling me a right-wing nutcase and haranguing me something awful for supporting the war.

What? Someone actually harassed you for what I said? And what I said as a JOKE!?.. Looks like we know who the REAL nutcase is..

Sorry about that Steve. I was joking around with you, and others, less able to read a message board, took it as serious.. And then blamed YOU!

Sorry.

Don't apologize for that! You did nothing wrong... We're turning Japanese, my friend.

Note to other message-board challenged:

First, get the quotes right.
Then realize this ( ) means a joke.

Have a nice day.

GJ

[jez]

It was TOTAL tongue in cheek (TTC)! The 'winking' icon usually means I'm not serious.

Accepted.


[quote]Of course there is propaganda from the media, and from ALL sides. But I truly believe sometimes it's the VIEWERS that are propagating to themselves]
With due respect, GJ, I view that as a cop out. Of course we all have different opinions, but what would opinions be if we didn't stand by them? Furthermore, if we are talking about propaganda, we are talking about lies and half-truths. Therefore, we must come up with a basis for our use of the term 'propaganda'. That is what I try to do. I don't believe that there is a right side and a wrong side. It's not like that. Whoever is in power is gonna use propaganda to get the people to accept the unacceptable. It's not a matter of being on the left or on the right. It's a matter of fighting the lies and half truths of the elite. By putting ourselves in to 'right' and 'left' compartments, we are doing exactly what 'they' want us to do, and bowing to their 'supremacy'. Hope this doesn't sound too apocalyptic. It shouldn't. I always believe there is reason to hope. I wouldn't be here otherwise.

[jez]

Steve,
Sorry if I caused you to get hate mail.
Some people have too much time on their hands, and not enough thinking power

[GuyJean]

I view that as a cop out.

I view it as reality.. Same statement; different view. It happens all the time.

I think critically analyzing something, no matter which perspective, is the answer..

I've had enough of this topic. A sunny day awaits..

GJ

[jez]

GJ,
So you believe everybody is right, even though they hold opposing views, and all we can do is critically analyse ad infinitum?
I am not here for fun. I am here because I seek the truth. That is, I seek the way to a better world. It's not a game called 'Let's Debate!'.

[DJEB]

Dang - the dangers of being double quoted. I just got email calling me a right-wing nutcase and haranguing me something awful for supporting the war.

It sure wasn't me, Steve. You fill my heart with blood.

I've got a big post coming... research takes time...

[Gaisaradatsuraku!]

Dang - the dangers of being double quoted. I just got email calling me a right-wing nutcase and haranguing me something awful for supporting the war.

It sure wasn't me, Steve. You fill my heart with blood.

I've got a big post coming... research takes time...

You mean your juvenile musings are the product of "research." Holy cow. Feel a little different now about the war? Do the streets filled with cheering Iraqis welcoming our soldiers mean anything to you? Does the fact that the Arab world has been so hostile to the West and in spite of this we are cheere by the locals mean that maybe this is (I mean was) a just war and was welcomed by the citizens change your tune.

Of course not. It is all a plot by CNN.

And Jack, let me tell you (you crazy pidgin French speaking Canadian), I have seen plenty of coverage of wounded civilians on US TV. Footage incuded tours of hospitals with amputees (including children) and newspaper photos of grieving parents standing by a coffin filled with three small children. You are just wrong about this Jack. This stuff is being shown and it shows what a buffoon you are. How would you know what is being shown on US TV. You are in fucking Montreal. Finally, your issues with the Jews reveals some of your major character flaws. Clearly you have low self esteem. You deride the Jews (and America) because you know that the Jews have achieved great things in many fields. Likewise, America is the world's future. Since you are neither a Jew nor an American this makes you feel inadequate. Well, good reason for that.

[jez]

Oops...I guess Steve is a rabid right winger after all
Still, I would never condone hate mail. Even against a hate-spouting racist
Steve, so even though someone has done research, that means nuthin' to you? Does the truth come to you out of thin air?

[jez]

Colin Powell is saying, that the coalition which fought the war should play the leading role in rebuilding Iraq(politically), and not the UN. That's all very well, but he is forgetting(?), that the UN, as it's name suggests, represents the international community. Iraq does not belong to the USA, simply because it 'libertated' it. If the US gvt believes it does own Iraq-and that's certainly what it looks like-that simply confirms what many have been thinking:the US gvt is an imperialist gvt hiding under a moral cloak.

[DJEB]

[DJEB]

Oops...I guess Steve is a rabid right winger after all
Still, I would never condone hate mail. Even against a hate-spouting racist
Steve, so even though someone has done research, that means nuthin' to you? Does the truth come to you out of thin air?

Sorry about tonight. You can see what was going on.

You've got the right post, but addressed to the wrong guy. You meant to address this to Gaisaladashooter.

[Steve Bildermann]

Oops...I guess Steve is a rabid right winger after all
Still, I would never condone hate mail. Even against a hate-spouting racist
Steve, so even though someone has done research, that means nuthin' to you? Does the truth come to you out of thin air?

Jez - I'm not involved in any of this stuff - honest. Please look at the quotes. My posts are being quoted and amended. Others are misreading this.
END OF STEVE'S POST HERE.

[jez]

Steve,


I promise from now on I won't drink&post

[jez]

Snap snap snap...
the links to radio4all don't work. How does one get there, wot wot?

[jez]

You mean your juvenile musings are the product of "research." Holy cow. Feel a little different now about the war? Do the streets filled with cheering Iraqis welcoming our soldiers mean anything to you? Does the fact that the Arab world has been so hostile to the West and in spite of this we are cheere by the locals mean that maybe this is (I mean was) a just war and was welcomed by the citizens change your tune.

so even though someone has done research, that means nuthin' to you? Does the truth come to you out of thin air?
(did I get the right guy this time? )