Bamboo English

[Mulboyne]

Unfortunately, the rest of this 1955 article is available only to registered institutions. Anyone have access?

[ichigo partygirl]

no problem. Sent u PM

[Taro Toporific]

no problem. Sent u PM

Gee, Ichigo don't be such a tease.
You can post a healthy section of such a paper under the 'fair use' statues---especially since the material is a 'sosh obsolete.

[ichigo partygirl]

Gee, Ichigo don't be such a tease.
You can post a healthy section of such a paper under the 'fair use' statues---especially since the material is a 'sosh obsolete.

sorry. I don't know how to copy PDF files so to post them on the forum. I'm sure Mulboyne will post some of it now he has it.

[Mulboyne]

Just reading it now. I'll post some more of it. I like this:

More recently, hayaku 'quick' has entered the serviceman's lingo both in its original adverbial sense and also as a savory verb, as in 'Tell him to hayaku the hell over here!'

Thanks ichigo!

[Taro Toporific]

sorry. I don't know how to copy PDF files so to post them on the forum.

Oh no, I'm sorry to demand the text when it was locked up in that damn PDF format. A while back, I lost my $300 copy of Acrobat Pro for editing PDF files and I have found that the various PDF workarounds online are a pain in the butt .

[BakaSan]

[Taro Toporific]

--image files of the "Bamboo English" PDF

Thanks to Mulboyne and BakaSan I got to read Arthur Norman's "Bamboo English" which had plenty of amusing confusion centered around the sakuhachi.



Somehow Professor Norman thought a sakuhachi flute is a "Chinese horn with a obo-like timbe played by the natto vendor as he makes his nightly rounds."
Hmm, night natto vendors. ]charumera [/I](チャルメラ) to sell ramen at night, which has nothing to with the sales of beans fermented or flutes like the sakuhachi.
More amusing is that Norman thought sakuhachi and its Americanization "suck a hachi" had a new meaning that referred to sodomy when it has always been slang for people living in Japan for a blowjob. Professor Norman was writing about the wrong end of the linguistic borrowing.

BTW: Does anybody have a definition or meaning for
Professor Norman's turn of the phrase, "desideraturn in the mind"?

[Socratesabroad]

More amusing is that Norman thought sakuhachi and its Americanization "suck a hachi" had a new meaning that referred to sodomy when it has always been slang for people living in Japan for a blowjob. Professor Norman was writing about the wrong end of the linguistic borrowing.

BTW: Does anybody have a definition or meaning for
Professor Norman's turn of the phrase, "desideraturn in the mind"?

I think he understood the actual implied, though I'm not sure why he flubbed the night natto vendor thing.

Here's my take on the passage you mentioned:

[When one GI says suck a hachi to another]The figurative sense of the phrase is Go to hell [or in less polite society: Suck my dick]], representing a desideratum [something to be desired] in the mind of the American who can count in Japanese.

As far as I'm aware, yes, Veronica, we men are of the opinion that a blowjob is always desired...

[Mulboyne]

I don't think "Go to hell" would ever be equated with "Fuck me up the ass" in English. But it can be equated with "Suck my dick". Through that route, I can see where "Suck a hachi" comes to mean "Go to hell".

I can't think of any insult where a guy invites penetration. "Fuck me" isn't an insult although "Fuck you" clearly is. "Are you fucking me over?" is usually an accusation while "I'll fuck you over" is a threat etc etc.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I don't think "Go to hell" would ever be equated with "Fuck me up the ass" in English. But it can be equated with "Suck my dick". Through that route, I can see where "Suck a hachi" comes to mean "Go to hell".

I can't think of any insult where a guy invites penetration. "Fuck me" isn't an insult although "Fuck you" clearly is. "Are you fucking me over?" is usually an accusation while "I'll fuck you over" is a threat etc etc.

Acts of sodomy include oral sex so that could be what he was talking about in his analysis.

[amdg]

Wait... "Sodomy" means oral sex now? In which language?

[amdg]

Nevermind - I see now. It has a much wider definition in the US apparently. Any sexual act that does not lead to procreation. So... basically most people are sodomites in the US.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Wait... "Sodomy" means oral sex now? In which language?

It generally means butt fucking, especially of the gay variety, but is sometimes used to refer to any kind of sex other than good old fashioned penis-in-the-vagina sex. So I guess that makes most of us sodomites.

[Socratesabroad]

Nevermind - I see now. It has a much wider definition in the US apparently. Any sexual act that does not lead to procreation. So... basically most people are sodomites in the US.

As you said, sodomy is not necessarily anal sex, but this is hardly an American affectation. As Emory University [my alma mater ] theologian Mark Jordan explained in The Invention of Sodomy in Christian Theology
WE'RE ALL SODOMISTS NOW

It's worth noting, then, that from the very beginning sodomy and homosexuality were two categorically separate things. The correct definition of sodomy--then and now--is simply non-procreative sex, whether practiced by heterosexuals or homosexuals. It includes oral sex, masturbation, mutual masturbation, contraceptive sex, coitus interruptus, and anal sex--any sex in which semen does not find its way into a uterus.
So it's perhaps unsurprising that Jordan's research doesn't discover the actual nouns "sodomy" and "sodomite" until the eleventh century. The first and most influential polemic against it was the hermit monk Peter Damian's Book of Gomorrah. Given the period's expansive definition of sodomy (it did, after all, include masturbation), it's not surprising that Damian believed it was rife.

Thus, it's easy to imagine in a 1955 scholarly text that sodomy would refer to just about any act between men without being limited to anal intercourse.

[Greji]

As you said, sodomy is not necessarily anal sex

Most criminal codes in the US at least, to include the US military's UCMJ define practically any "unatural" sexual act (other than the missonary position), as sodomy.

What a boring way to face the futon, if you are that law abiding!