Time to "pure"-ize the Sumo

[Number11]

Not everyone is an anti-social loner. Some people have relationships and even have them mature into marriages with children. For them, I think the issue is not belonging, it's more about wanting a reasonably level playing field in finances, careers and child rearing without having to bear a racial cross.

[Ketou]

Is really an issue of wanting to belong to the group? I would have thought it was more to do with having an equal footing. The fact that you cohabitate with them and contribute to the same resource pool would surely make you want to have the ability to utilise those resources in an equitable way.

I didn't actually have the intention of ridiculing anyone with my comment. Although if that is how it is taken so be it. I am just as equally happy to ridicule the backwater country I came from. Japan as I see it is a developing nation with developed nation toys. Australia conversely is a developed semi police state with developing nation toys.

[Yokohammer]

Not everyone is an anti-social loner. Some people have relationships and even have them mature into marriages with children. For them, I think the issue is not belonging, it's more about wanting a reasonably level playing field in finances, careers and child rearing without having to bear a racial cross.

Is really an issue of wanting to belong to the group? I would have thought it was more to do with having an equal footing. The fact that you cohabitate with them and contribute to the same resource pool would surely make you want to have the ability to utilise those resources in an equitable way.

Yes and yes!

Although it's natural to want to feel accepted in the society you happen to live in, that's only a very small part of the problem. For many of us it's not a simple issue of saying "well screw this place, I'm going home." And that applies even to the more well-positioned among us. I'm sure it's a much bigger deal for less fortunate/affluent immigrants. Family, relationships, work, and other factors conspire to keep us here, but of course not entirely against our will. As Ketou implies, we contribute to the society as much as, and in some cases more than, the average J-joe, and it just seems fair that we should enjoy the same basic rights and protection. Note that I say "basic" rights and protection. I don't personally believe I should be granted the right to vote unless I acquire citizenship, for example (mind you, I'd use it if I had it). And it is in those basic rights and protection that the system fails us. Finances, housing, policing, service ... you really don't notice the insidious details until you've dug in pretty deep.

No, it's not worse than some other countries where there is much more serious human rights abuse. But this is where we live, and thus it is our issue.

[maraboutslim]

But of course, as I was very clear to state above, questions about "rights" are a completely different issue from whether one is "Japanese" or not. There is Japanese citizenship, and there is "Japanese"ness.

Not everyone is an anti-social loner. Some people have relationships and even have them mature into marriages with children. For them, I think the issue is not belonging, it's more about wanting a reasonably level playing field in finances, careers and child rearing without having to bear a racial cross.

Oh gee, aren't you cute. I know you're new around here, but I've done all those things. I also think you're crazy if you think there is not going to be a "racial cross" to bare when living in a country where only 1% of the population is non-Japanese. Heck, in many ways, it's easier to operate when "bias" is clear and out in the open and not the absolute cultural/racial mess of a place such as the united states, where so many groups hate each other and discriminate against each other and one never knows where they stand.

[Taka-Okami]

I've said it before and I'll say it again.

If you don't like the way Japan runs things, then FUCK OFF BACK HOME.

[Ketou]

Heck, in many ways, it's easier to operate when "bias" is clear and out in the open and not the absolute cultural/racial mess of a place such as the united states, where so many groups hate each other and discriminate against each other and one never knows where they stand.

lol true...

[Number11]

I think it's human nature to dislike being slighted by any group or any one who thinks they are superior. But hey, I'm "new around here," so please feel superior about that.

[maraboutslim]

My new around here comments was just in response to you deeming me a anti-social loner. Since you are new, you weren't aware that I have done (and posted about) all those things you said people eventually want to do (marriage, kids, business, etc.) and that my opinions on belonging to the group or not aren't because i'm a young single guy who doesn't give a shit. I'm an old married guy who doesn't give a shit.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Note that I say "basic" rights and protection. I don't personally believe I should be granted the right to vote unless I acquire citizenship, for example (mind you, I'd use it if I had it). And it is in those basic rights and protection that the system fails us. Finances, housing, policing, service ... you really don't notice the insidious details until you've dug in pretty deep.

No, it's not worse than some other countries where there is much more serious human rights abuse. But this is where we live, and thus it is our issue.

This was a really great post, IMHO. I've stayed out of this discussion because there was some really smart shit happening and I'm basically a dumb fuck, but Yokohammer prompted me to add my two-bob's worth.
Japan operates, I believe, a cultural apartheid set in place after the Meiji Restoration to justify Imperial rule. It caters to the mainstream society and the rest of us are just kaffirs. By "the rest of us" I mean anybody outside of the mainstream, which includes foreigners.
Japanese apartheid stems from ignorance and it continues to be ingrained into people even now because the essentials of what began being taught to the Japanese in the 1870s are still taught now, which effectively is that the Japanese are a special people who behave in a certain way in certain situations. Anybody whose behavior does not fit into that category is effectively a non-person.
But Japanese apartheid is not directed simply toward foreigners. We are just one of the outside groups. It is also directed to other minorities like Ainu, Okinawans, burakumin through to even less obvious types such as nightclub hostesses/workers, NEETs, yakuza.
So, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that Japanese racism is more of a by-product than something directly intended. A more fundamental issue is the almost complete lack of respect for individual human rights. Until that issue is addressed - and I haven't seen too many signs of it being done so in the decades I've been here - we're all still kaffirs, including all those others on the outside of the mainstream.
Yokohammer is right in his assertion that we should be entitled to basic rights. I agree entirely, but I think the likelihood of porcine aviators is far more likely to come about. That being the case, we have the choices of either accepting and staying, fighting a lone battle a la Deadbeato and be hounded out and broken, or fuck off home or to some other place.

[Greji]

This was a really great post, IMHO. I've stayed out of this discussion because there was some really smart shit happening and I'm basically a dumb fuck, but Yokohammer prompted me to add my two-bob's worth.
Japan operates, I believe, a cultural apartheid set in place after the Meiji Restoration to justify Imperial rule. It caters to the mainstream society and the rest of us are just kaffirs. By "the rest of us" I mean anybody outside of the mainstream, which includes foreigners.
Japanese apartheid stems from ignorance and it continues to be ingrained into people even now because the essentials of what began being taught to the Japanese in the 1870s are still taught now, which effectively is that the Japanese are a special people who behave in a certain way in certain situations. Anybody whose behavior does not fit into that category is effectively a non-person.
But Japanese apartheid is not directed simply toward foreigners. We are just one of the outside groups. It is also directed to other minorities like Ainu, Okinawans, burakumin through to even less obvious types such as nightclub hostesses/workers, NEETs, yakuza.
So, I guess the point I'm trying to make is that Japanese racism is more of a by-product than something directly intended. A more fundamental issue is the almost complete lack of respect for individual human rights. Until that issue is addressed - and I haven't seen too many signs of it being done so in the decades I've been here - we're all still kaffirs, including all those others on the outside of the mainstream.
Yokohammer is right in his assertion that we should be entitled to basic rights. I agree entirely, but I think the likelihood of porcine aviators is far more likely to come about. That being the case, we have the choices of either accepting and staying, fighting a lone battle a la Deadbeato and be hounded out and broken, or fuck off home or to some other place.

Damn Hair, that's pretty heavy for a Saturday. I guess I ain't socially minded. As long as I'm getting pissed and bred on a reasonably regular basis and not getting thrown into the butabako too often, I be a happy camper in the land of four seasons.....

[omae mona]

Yokohammer is right in his assertion that we should be entitled to basic rights. I agree entirely, but I think the likelihood of porcine aviators is far more likely to come about.

[2triky]

Porco Rosso...the legendary Red Bacon. Applewood smoked.

[Mulboyne]

[Taro Toporific]

...There's no turning back. Japan can't go back the "sakoku" era....strong "undercurrents" that work to keep things stagnant are kept invisible, behind layer after layer of bureaucracy...

[gooseinc]

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Mulboyne, do you know of anything similar, written in Japanese? This is the kind of article I'd love to send to the other half, as it'd provide me with a strong base to argue from, when discussing these kind of matters with her!

I doubt that there are many Japanese alive who would be able to even conceive of what this writer is asserting.

[gooseinc]

That's exactly why I'd like to show her something like this. What I mean is, if no equivalent penned by a Japanese exists, do any translations?

One thing I find constantly fascinating is just how much discourse of this kind there seems to be on Japan in English. I always wonder how the Japanese would react if they read this kind of well argued, statistically backed piece in their own language.

PS. I absolutely agree on the non-conceivability part...I can just imagine the response to the story described in this post. There most likely would be some half-baked attempt at a rationalisation of the ruling. This is despite the fact she is a Japanese who has lived abroad for 15+ years. You can take the Japanese out of Japan but you can't take the Japan out of the Japanese!
Edit/Delete Message

[Greji]

:rofl:

I doubt that there are many Japanese alive who would be able to even conceive of what this writer is asserting.

Check with Jack. But, then again, he'll probably deny it.

[BO-SENSEI]

You`re looking for a document written in Japanese that would basically undermine everything taught in Japanese schools from day one? You are better off looking for a children's book about how Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and the Easter Bunny are not real.

[Mike Oxlong]

Didn't Dr. Miyamoto Masao write some stuff along those lines?

[Yokohammer]

Didn't Dr. Miyamoto Masao write some stuff along those lines?

Hmm ... very interesting.
I thought I'd go ahead and order a copy of Miyamoto's "Straightjacket Society" from Amazon, only to find that Amazon US has it, but for some strange reason I can't find it at all on Amazon Japan, which normally has just about any English book you can find on Amazon US.

[Ketou]

Hmm ... very interesting.
I thought I'd go ahead and order a copy of Miyamoto's "Straightjacket Society" from Amazon, only to find that Amazon US has it, but for some strange reason I can't find it at all on Amazon Japan, which normally has just about any English book you can find on Amazon US.

It's always worth checking both JP and US sites. Often, even when the JP site has a copy, it is cheaper to get it shipped from the States.

[Bucky]

Closing night in Seattle, 7:30 p.m. March 21 at Cinerama, includes a sushi-and-sake spread. The movie that night is an amiable romantic comedy, "Matter of Size," about an overweight Israeli chef/dishwasher who becomes ... a sumo wrestler.

More here
and here

[Mulboyne]

Alex Bennett, long-time resident of Kansai and the man behind Kendo World, has been interviewed by the Mainichi about the current state of sumo (Japanese).

He makes some interesting points. Firstly, he says that he doesn't consider sumo to be a martial art, although he acknowledges it has a long history, because it is essentially about winning & losing. From that perspective, he is a bit puzzled about all the talk of "dignity" in the sport since he thinks there isn't much emphasis on developing those qualities in sumo training. He also wonders whether past champions were really paragons of virtue or whether the media is simply more prepared to report apparent transgressions.

He then goes on to criticize the decision of the Sumo Council to regard a naturalized wrestler as a foreigner. He argues this is a human rights issue and thinks the fact the press has failed to pick up on that is also problematic. He says that some talk about sumo as a potential Olympic event but such discriminatory actions risk reducing support for the sport overseas.

In conclusion, Bennett writes that "tradition" is an over-used word in sumo. He thinks it is often quite a vague concept and seems to be an excuse to avoid making changes which will keep the sport relevant. Without more transparency and reform, he doesn't see sumo having much of a future.