Air Force Plans to Sell F-22As to Allies

[puargs]

A Lockheed Martin official heavily involved in the Raptor program told ITAF Feb. 14 that a proposal to alter course and sell the Raptor to Japan is working its way through the Air Force. Lockheed is leading development and production work on the service's newest fighter.

...

A Japanese defense official said Feb. 14 that the Asian nation is very interested in purchasing the F-22A as a replacement for its F-4 aircraft, and confirmed the JASDF has contacted both Raptor-maker Lockheed Martin and the Air Force about buying the fighter.

The Japan Air Self-Defense Force currently has four fighter jet models in its fleet -- F-15s, F-4 interceptors, F-2s and F-1s. The JASDF introduced the F-4s in 1973 and has indicated it will begin retiring them some time next decade.

Congrats Japan! The most advanced flying killing machine may soon be at your disposal!

http://www.military.com/features/0,15240,88282,00.html?ESRC=airforce-a.nl

[Leslie!]

it's a mighty good thing that only unequivocally just and peaceful nations such as Israel and Japan can be allowed to have nuclear bombs and high-tech fighter jets!

[American Oyaji]

It's too bad that the F-22 is NOT a great plane.

Sure it's a technological marvel, but pilots say its not as good as the F-15 or F-16 at dogfighting.

It's a multi task plane, and as such it doesn't do ONE thing really well. It does a bunch of things reasonably well.

[Kanchou]

I wonder how many of these "pilots" have actually flown the plane... because what I've heard is that everyone whose actually flown it is in love with it.

It turns better, it's got more thrust, and it'll fly straight up, something neither of the former planes can do. It'll also do it's own top speed with a full weapons load, once again, something the other planes can't do. And besides that, the situational awareness given by it's simplified displays give it's pilots a big advantage at any fighting range.

I don't see how any of these things makes it worse at dogfighting.

The only multi-tasking this plane does is that which was forced on it by congress...which was renaming to F/A-22, and giving it a fighter-bomber role (just like the F-15...).

I'm pretty sure all the trial excersizes have shown that it dominated the earlier planes in simulated combat, as well.

It may only do everything reasonably well, but it still does everything better than the older planes (except carry bombs, versus the Strike Eagle...and it may even do that, when it isn't using a stealth payload).

[Leslie!]

It's too bad that the F-22 is NOT a great plane.

Sure it's a technological marvel, but pilots say its not as good as the F-15 or F-16 at dogfighting.

Yeah, freaking dogs.

Well it doesn't really matter -- as we all know peaceful Japan has no armed forces, so these planes are just for show.

[IkemenTommy]

It's too bad that the F-22 is NOT a great plane.

Sure it's a technological marvel, but pilots say its not as good as the F-15 or F-16 at dogfighting.

It's a multi task plane, and as such it doesn't do ONE thing really well. It does a bunch of things reasonably well.

In terms of technological breakthrough, there is no other plane like it. It's just too bad the damned thing costs so much to produce that they will probably never go into mass pro.

I highly doubt Japan will get a piece of this plane considering the US is not currently (or probably ever) using it as the standard fighter plane.

F-15 and F-16 have another couple of life years left. At least for now, no other planes can even come close to the F-15 and F-16 capabilities.

[Tsuru]

I wonder how many of these "pilots" have actually flown the plane... because what I've heard is that everyone whose actually flown it is in love with it.

It turns better, it's got more thrust, and it'll fly straight up, something neither of the former planes can do. It'll also do it's own top speed with a full weapons load, once again, something the other planes can't do. And besides that, the situational awareness given by it's simplified displays give it's pilots a big advantage at any fighting range.

I don't see how any of these things makes it worse at dogfighting.

The only multi-tasking this plane does is that which was forced on it by congress...which was renaming to F/A-22, and giving it a fighter-bomber role (just like the F-15...).

I'm pretty sure all the trial excersizes have shown that it dominated the earlier planes in simulated combat, as well.

It may only do everything reasonably well, but it still does everything better than the older planes (except carry bombs, versus the Strike Eagle...and it may even do that, when it isn't using a stealth payload).

Actually, she was introduced as the F/A-22 and then renamed F-22A as it was deemed too risky to have these expensive planes fly low on ground attack missions. The ground attack role was passed onto the F-35 JSF. So the big question now, is whether she is any good in a non-BVR environment, engaging bogeys at relatively short range when not protected by her stealth and advanced combat telemetry (which is working with radar information from other aircraft allowing the F-22's own radar to remain off and stealthy). The F-22 is a bit of a flying tenniscourt due to all these stealth and payload requirements and well, you tell me what is easier to see and shoot: a small and nimble Typhoon or F-15 or a huge F-14, Su-35 or -dare I say it- F-22A.

And F-22A is not the only aircraft incorporating new technology, next-generation avionics and cockpit displays (Eurofighter), supercruise and extremely powerful engines (Eurofighter, Su-35) and thrust vectoring (Su-35).

Plus, the Russians, French and Dutch (:D) have developed radar technology that can reveal stealthy aircraft by using different detection methods and even technology to detect the wake turbulence produced by any aircraft.

But rest assured, it probably will work when attacking Iran or China.

[American Oyaji]

Not China. Russian people are in such dire financial situations that anything the Russian military has is for sale.

The Chinese are the corporate espionage business.

[Greji]

Not China. Russian people are in such dire financial situations that anything the Russian military has is for sale.

Spot on there. Sukhoi has had some good new fighters on the board, but Russia does have the dust to produce them. I think the USAF look pretty close at one of the SU's during the Raptor process!

[Kanchou]

[quote="Tsuru"]Actually, she was introduced as the F/A-22 and then renamed F-22A as it was deemed too risky to have these expensive planes fly low on ground attack missions. The ground attack role was passed onto the F-35 JSF. So the big question now, is whether she is any good in a non-BVR environment, engaging bogeys at relatively short range when not protected by her stealth and advanced combat telemetry (which is working with radar information from other aircraft allowing the F-22's own radar to remain off and stealthy). The F-22 is a bit of a flying tenniscourt due to all these stealth and payload requirements and well, you tell me what is easier to see and shoot: a small and nimble Typhoon or F-15 or a huge F-14, Su-35 or -dare I say it- F-22A.

And F-22A is not the only aircraft incorporating new technology, next-generation avionics and cockpit displays (Eurofighter), supercruise and extremely powerful engines (Eurofighter, Su-35) and thrust vectoring (Su-35).

Plus, the Russians, French and Dutch (:D) have developed radar technology that can reveal stealthy aircraft by using different detection methods and even technology to detect the wake turbulence produced by any aircraft.

But rest assured, it probably will work when attacking Iran or China. ]

It was originally F-22A ("A" being the designation for the first single-seat version of the plane), and due to some nudging by congress, they changed it to F/A-22. Unless they suddenly changed it back before I noticed

Also, even in an attack mission, they wouldn't be low-flying attacks... the only ground-attach weapon it's designed to carry are JDAM GPS-guided bombs, which can be dropped from a very high altitude (it's a standoff weapon).

[Tsuru]

It was originally F-22A ("A" being the designation for the first single-seat version of the plane), and due to some nudging by congress, they changed it to F/A-22. Unless they suddenly changed it back before I noticed

Also, even in an attack mission, they wouldn't be low-flying attacks... the only ground-attach weapon it's designed to carry are JDAM GPS-guided bombs, which can be dropped from a very high altitude (it's a standoff weapon).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F/A-22_Raptor

[...]

In September 2002, Air Force leaders changed the Raptor’]

On 12 December 2005, USAF chief of staff Gen. Michael Moseley told an audience of senior Air National Guard leaders that the jet's designation would be changed again, to F-22A.

[...]

So yes, it is a ground attack aircraft in the way that it can drop guided bombs from altitude. The same capability as the F-117 or the B-2. But I somehow doubt it's going to strafe tanks like true ground attack aircraft such as the A-10 or F/A-18

Sorry

[Greji]

And F-22A is not the only aircraft incorporating new technology, next-generation avionics and cockpit displays (Eurofighter), supercruise and extremely powerful engines (Eurofighter, Su-35) and thrust vectoring (Su-35)

Tsuru-chan,

Isn't the thrust vectoring in the Su-37 Super Flanker? Which leads into my point, which do you think is the better, the Eurofighter or the Su-37. Everyone I talk to (mostly USAF air frame operators) seem to be highly interested in the 37 and think it is the much better air frame. It's designer challenged the US to an air superiority test. He told the US industry in essence, to "pick a town, pick a time". When the test pilot did the "somersault" in it, it made believers out of a lot of people. After checking I found this was the version that the US was highly serious about and almost bought for the USAF. On the other hand, there are horror stories going around that the Eurofighter is too heavy and forfeits manuverability for payload (something of the Tornado stereotype, or worse yet, a F-105 "Thud").


Su37 Super Flanker
"Any time, any place." were the words of Sukhoi's Chief Designer, Mikhail Simonov, as he challenged any US aircraft to a mock combat after being questioned about the relevance of the Su37's Thrust Vectoring (TV) manouvers in combat.

[Tsuru]

Tsuru-chan,

Isn't the thrust vectoring in the Su-37 Super Flanker? Which leads into my point, which do you think is the better, the Eurofighter or the Su-37. Everyone I talk to (mostly USAF air frame operators) seem to be highly interested in the 37 and think it is the much better air frame. It's designer challenged the US to an air superiority test. He told the US industry in essence, to "pick a town, pick a time". When the test pilot did the "somersault" in it, it made believers out of a lot of people. After checking I found this was the version that the US was highly serious about and almost bought for the USAF. On the other hand, there are horror stories going around that the Eurofighter is too heavy and forfeits manuverability for payload (something of the Tornado stereotype, or worse yet, a F-105 "Thud").


Su37 Super Flanker
"Any time, any place." were the words of Sukhoi's Chief Designer, Mikhail Simonov, as he challenged any US aircraft to a mock combat after being questioned about the relevance of the Su37's Thrust Vectoring (TV) manouvers in combat.

I always thought the Su-35 was the most advanced of the Flanker pedigree and Sukhoi reserved the -37 designation for their ultra-maneuverable Berkut:



Anyhow, the maritime Su-33 was the first of the flanker bunch to have thrust vectoring, then came the -35 and -37

As far as horror-stories go, I can tell you a particular one about how one RAF Typhoon two-seat trainer took on and beat the pants off a formation of two USAF F-15s in a mock dogfight over Scotland. And then there's the one about the F-15 pilots getting their behinds handed to them by Indian Su-35's in a wargame over the Indian Ocean.

http://www.answers.com/topic/eurofighter-typhoon

In June 2005, The Scotsman reported that, in a mock confrontation with two American F-15C Eagle fighter aircraft, a Eurofighter pilot was able to avoid his pursuers and quickly outmaneuver them to "shoot them up". Unattributed statements indicate that the success of the craft came as a surprise to both the Americans and the RAF.

While the Typhoon - primarily to lower the costs - lacks the all-aspect stealth technology of the F-22A, the design does incorporate many low-observable features. Even equipped with full weaponry the Eurofighter is after the American F-22, F-117A and B-2 the plane with the lowest radar cross-section. It is said to be 1/7 of the Su-27, 1/3 of the F/A-18 or Rafale, but only 1/3 larger than the radar cross-section of the F-22.

http://scotlandonsunday.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=673262005

A chance encounter over the Lake District between a Eurofighter trainer and two F-15 aircraft turned into a mock dogfight, with the British plane coming off best - much to the surprise of some in the RAF. The episode was hushed up for fear of causing US blushes.

And by the way, don't be calling me "chan". It makes me sound gay.

[Greji]

As far as horror-stories go, I can tell you a particular one about how one RAF Typhoon two-seat trainer took on and beat the pants off a formation of two USAF F-15s in a mock dogfight over Scotland. And then there's the one about the F-15 pilots getting their behinds handed to them by Indian Su-35's in a wargame over the Indian Ocean.

Thanks for that. actually those are not really horror stories as the pilots willingly pass those around over tactics and pints, far and wide. The Indian Ocean war games was a big score and a great topic for awhile. It may well have been the very thing that began twinking the US interest in Sukhoi designs! I am to understand there were some technical clitches and things that didn't go the US's way during the exercises, but several of the people I have talked to who were involved, either driving or in support had nothing to say but the best about the aircraft and in particular, the Indian pilots!

I would not be surprised at all, to see Sukhoi involved in future production of US air superiority aircraft and/or designs in the US

[quote]And by the way, don't be calling me "chan". It makes me sound gay.

]

Nah, not gay, just a lot younger!:)

[Kanchou]

[quote="Tsuru"]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F/A-22_Raptor



So yes, it is a ground attack aircraft in the way that it can drop guided bombs from altitude. The same capability as the F-117 or the B-2. But I somehow doubt it's going to strafe tanks like true ground attack aircraft such as the A-10 or F/A-18

Sorry ]

Eh, figures they'd change it AGAIN...

[Tsuru]

Thanks for that. actually those are not really horror stories as the pilots willingly pass those around over tactics and pints, far and wide. The Indian Ocean war games was a big score and a great topic for awhile. It may well have been the very thing that began twinking the US interest in Sukhoi designs! I am to understand there were some technical clitches and things that didn't go the US's way during the exercises, but several of the people I have talked to who were involved, either driving or in support had nothing to say but the best about the aircraft and in particular, the Indian pilots!

I would not be surprised at all, to see Sukhoi involved in future production of US air superiority aircraft and/or designs in the US

I would think they have no real choice in the matter but to get as much out of it as possible, especially if you consider that Russia sells them to just about everybody who can fork out the money, short of maybe lil' Kim. China has already started to produce a Flanker variant of its own in Shenzen, the J-11 and they fly the Su-30MKK, a variant developed especially for China by Sukhoi.

As we know, as soon as the Chinese get their hands on something they can produce 11.000 immaculate copies ready to enter service in a fortnight. Either that or we see a lot of the Flanker's aerodynamic and flight control technology end up on indigenous Chinese fighters in the next 5 to 10 years. ]Eh, figures they'd change it AGAIN...[/QUOTE]"F/B-22" would be appropriate

[kurohinge1]

Yep, I致e always thought the Typhoon was more manoeuvrable than the F-15. But the wife thinks the Typhoon makes her bum look big. She痴 also unhappy that the F-15 only comes in garish colours.

Of course, the older Hawker Typhoon is a classic collectable but the insurance premiums are a nightmare and we only have one spot for off-street parking.

The Mrs likes the interior of the F-117 but it痴 a bitch to reverse-park, while the S-37痴 are a bit pricey.

Our local dealer told us that the A-10痴 may seem cheap but they really screw you on the parts and servicing.

So, we致e compromised and gone with the F22, especially with the extended warranty they were offering.

If we have another kid, though, we’re leaning towards one of those V-44’s. Boring, yes, but very practical.

See you in the skies.

[FG Lurker]

US mulling Japanese participation in F-35 fighter
AFP, December 30, 2009

[floatr][/floatr]The United States is considering allowing Japan to take part in a multinational project to develop the F-35 next-generation stealth fighter, a press report said Tuesday.

Washington may allow Tokyo to participate in the project even without assurances from Japan that it will procure the F-35, Kyodo News reported, quoting sources from both governments.

The move is intended to clear the way for Japan to introduce the F-35 as its future mainstay fighter as countries not participating in the joint development would not be allowed to acquire it at an early date, Kyodo said.

Tokyo's participation would be limited to developing components to be provided exclusively to its air defence force as Japan bans weapons and arms-technology exports, Kyodo quoted the sources as saying.

(Full Story)

[Greji]

Hey Tsuru, got anything on this baby? Looks good regardless of what Putrid says......

[Christoff]

Russian Sukhoi T-50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXBs4PNdE_A

[Coligny]

Russian Sukhoi T-50

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXBs4PNdE_A

Somebody got their hands on the YF23 blueprints...

[Tsuru]

They took a leaf out of the US' book with regards to design (matching sweep angles for all of the airfoils and the intakes, for example), but to say that they copied the YF-23 is a bit rich. Not in the way that the Chinese J10 is actually an IAI Lavi with a Russian engine, at least.

It might not be as capable an airframe as the F22 as the Ruskis are still hell-bent on giving it more radar and missile range, but if past experience is anything to go by China can pick up 10 PAK-FAs for the same cash it costs the US to operate a single F22. I recall it does use a rather interesting technique to "stealthify" the engine intakes that involves a flexible twisting intake pipe with membranes that allow the pilot to choose between stealth and high performance.

And what are we doing? Yup, still buying the F-35 Boondoggle.

[Greji]

And what are we doing? Yup, still buying the F-35 Boondoggle.

Hey, that's right, but they will each come complete with a set of Apocalypse Now speakers on each side that will play the latest selection of Obama's teleprompter speeches....

[Coligny]

Just in topic..

An article written by sumeone who saw a plane movie, while drunk, 15 years ago...

http://www.torontosun.com/news/world/2010/06/18/14433846.html



With the now traditionnal Pooty pot picshure "Yeah, i'm that cool, btw, I let the keys in the ignition"