J-traditions in decline: the kimono

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Just back from welcoming Sinterklaas and Zwarte Piet to Kobe, where they arrived today by boat from Spain. It was nice to see all the little Dutch kids and some Japanese kids enjoy meeting with Sint and Piet, impressed as they were with the whole happening. For all the Dutch people it brought them back to their childhood, with warm memories in which family members read each others poems when unwrapping their presents.

It somehow resembles the US tradition of Thanksgiving where family members gather in just as much a warm atmosphere, but I am sure there will always be bigots who point out the cruelty to animals (that is, to the turkeys) and call the people involved all kinds of names. Well, that's life. It seems to be hard to convince the self-righteous.

So, did you lynch him?

[Russell]

Lynch who?

[kurogane]

And just because someone paints their face black, it doesn't mean they're doing blackface.

Quibbling exceptions aside, that is exactly what it makes it.

If they're painting their faces black for reasons other than looking like a black person, it's not blackface. That's hardly a quibbling exception. The question is whether or not Zwarte Piet is supposed to represent a black person. From what I've read online since I first heard about him, it seems the answer isn't so simple.

And swince we're talking about Blackface as a social phenomenon not about painting one's face black for reasons other than looking like a black person, I call your quibbling exception and raise you a sophistic red herring.

At any rate, the idea that Black Peter is not in some significant way a subordinate and subservient black sidekick flies in the face of logic, history, and colonial tradition, but what we have here, I think, is perhaps a touch of White Sympathy Fatigue, or White Apology Fatigue, and unlike sophistic quibbling intended to paint Down as Up with that I fully sympathise even when it opens me to charges of racism. I simply can't be bothered to apologise for crap I didn't do or condone just because I share a certain genetic heritage with those that did. I'm from Vancouver, and I would never 'apologise' for the wartime internments of Jpn-Cdns, mostly because it would be presumptuous (esp. to Japanese), but also because it would be insincere.

Like Russell noted, it isn't quite the same as American racial stereotypes anyways, though probably not all that different given the sheer animal savagery of Dutch colonialism, but they seem to have gone a long way to update his role and status to remove the obvious servant/slave connotations. But most importantly, it's just Christmas, there will always be whiners of some colour (as Russell noted with that comical comparison to the Thanksgiving turkey slaughter), and I assume we all know enough Dutch to know when pushed they are always happy to push back. That's a big part of why I like them.

He is devilishly cute, as well. Olde Piet.

I think the key is not to let simple nostalgia and sympathy fatigue interfere with an understanding of it as a social phenomenon. "I just don't give a shit" is a perfectly acceptable response, after all.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Russell noted with that comically childish comparison to the Thanksgiving turkey slaughter

Russell may not be aware but there are people who take issue with Thanksgiving for a different reason. They say it represents everything horrible that happened to the Native Americans after friendly relations broke down between them and Pilgrims.

[kurogane]

Russell may not be aware but there are people who take issue with Thanksgiving for a different reason. They say it represents everything horrible that happened to the Native Americans after friendly relations broke down between them and Pilgrims.

And they would have a point, too. But quite aside from the fact that most of those people would be preachy middle class pedants and that what is done is done, what it really comes down to is that we only usually get to eat Turkey twice a year, at which point I go into default mode:

"I just don't give a shit"

Let's face it, most people that get more than a touch offended or uncomfortable at any of those legitimate but rather distant sins of commission are usually just self-important turds. Recognising an injustice is always good; banging on about it more than in passing is rather childish, unless that is the main topic of discussion in a specific context, such as a rally or conference.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Russell may not be aware but there are people who take issue with Thanksgiving for a different reason. They say it represents everything horrible that happened to the Native Americans after friendly relations broke down between them and Pilgrims.

And they would have a point, too. But quite aside from the fact that most of those people would be preachy middle class pedants

I might have to disagree. Based on a very unscientific sample (my Facebook feed), they're mostly blue collar and black.

[kurogane]

I might have to disagree. Based on a very unscientific sample (my Facebook feed), they're mostly blue collar and black.

I find that strangely heartening, if only because it shows that even the laboring classes can be civilised with enough exposure to the mind cleaning effects of the Western Liberal Media Bias.

OTOH, you could just need a new Facebook feed..........

I don't disagree with the sentiments so much as the presumption of lecturing me and those like me on crap we all know about anyways. It's just so middlebrow.

[IparryU]

Screwed Down Hairdo - I know where you're coming from because I'm not a young Aussie and I'm guessing you're older than me, something like 45 yrs plus but you're also rehashing some outdated concepts of Aboriginal people.

Super snip

Damn SDH you old fogie... TLDR but i chink he was sayin that you is so racist, you don't know the difference between a bucket of shit and an Abo.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2

[Taro Toporific]

1972千日前デパートビル火災 by Yuannei_Yong, on Flickr
Japan's worst department store fire in Osaka Sennichi, May 13, 1972.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQWvC1h6s1E

[Coligny]

I can haz fireproof kimonozes too ?

[Greji]

I can haz fireproof kimonozes too ?

Well, back to the original topic, the rise and decline of kimonos. I think they are really beautiful, but have no other functional use. I have had several traumatic experiences tying to undress a bird in full regalia. One, when we both left the pub half pissed and went directly to one of Shibuya's better two star stop-overs (a step above a capsule), everything went well until the room, when the two drunks despite a great effort, but were ultimately unsuccessful attempt at romantically removing the National Dress of Japan. We woke up in the morning with still several layers of costume in place. These things take at team of people to outfit the bird and they can be just as difficult to properly remove (if you haven't been drinking). It is therefore recommended that if Kimono wear cannot be banned, only very seriously patient and sober people should consider engaging in Kimono dating…..

[Coligny]

Well, back to the original topic,

BLASPHEMY !!!!!!

[IparryU]

I can haz fireproof kimonozes too ?

Well, back to the original topic, the rise and decline of kimonos. I think they are really beautiful, but have no other functional use. I have had several traumatic experiences tying to undress a bird in full regalia. One, when we both left the pub half pissed and went directly to one of Shibuya's better two star stop-overs (a step above a capsule), everything went well until the room, when the two drunks despite a great effort, but were ultimately unsuccessful attempt at romantically removing the National Dress of Japan. We woke up in the morning with still several layers of costume in place. These things take at team of people to outfit the bird and they can be just as difficult to properly remove (if you haven't been drinking). It is therefore recommended that if Kimono wear cannot be banned, only very seriously patient and sober people should consider engaging in Kimono dating…..

My j friend told me that taking it off is pointless. Just roll it up, pull down whatever the have left, and pound away.

Not even sure that works... But whatev

Sent from my SC-03E using Tapatalk 2

[kurogane]

Technically speaking, there should be nothing to pull down, but it does happen, especially after a particularly raucous Seijinshiki after party somewhere beyond where there are usually White Men present. AKA Kanazawa and its environs.

My Inner McToejam was appalled. The rest of me, rather pleased.

I do regret never getting the full panoramic view, mind.................

[wangta]

Screwed Down Hairdo - I know where you're coming from because I'm not a young Aussie and I'm guessing you're older than me, something like 45 yrs plus but you're also rehashing some outdated concepts of Aboriginal people.

Super snip

Damn SDH you old fogie... TLDR but i chink he was sayin that you is so racist, you don't know the difference between a bucket of shit and an Abo.

Sent from my GT-I9305 using Tapatalk 2

Eh? Not at all. Screwed Down Hairdo is not politically correct (neither am I) and is an older Aussie from what I can gather who makes good points in his posts on just about everything. He is referring to realities for Aboriginal people in Australia but a fair bit of these standard references have been outdated for some time.

I've had Asians including Japanese tell me things about what supposedly 'I' as a white Aussie 'have done' to Aboriginal people and Canadians telling me how Aboriginal people (Australians that is, not the Aboriginal people in Canada) have been sterilised, live in an apartheid state, and have no rights including land rights. I like the Canadians I know on the net but the ones I've met in real life have a huge complex about Australians. Personally I like to stick to subjects I know about instead of lecturing Canadians on what some non Aboriginal Canadians did to the native population.

It helps actually being friends with some Australian Aboriginal people and having previous employment working closely with Aboriginal people in my city. That way you know what you're talking about. Since the Hawke Labor Govt in the 80s significant reforms have been enacted including Aboriginal students getting higher student allowances than other Australians, redefinition of Aboriginal as by identification rather than old notions of looking black, expansion of legal and health services, and lots of money poured into just about every area of Aboriginal life. Aboriginal land rights legislation was enacted under Whitlam over 30 yrs ago and has been expanded under every Aust govt, even the conservative ones.

And to get back to the topic - the kimono is in decline as much as the Japanese post 2nd WW version of the German post 1stWW 'stab in the back' myth. If the Japanese Restoration Party is gaining the popularity among young people in other parts of Japan that I see where I live, I'd say the future of Japan will involve a shitload of national delusions and increased militarisation of the country.

I think it's absurd that Japan still has only a 'Self Defence Force' in this day and age but I can't help but worry a bit about what happens when the Constitution is changed. Too many revisionists in this country and too much belief in the 'Americans and others re-wrote Japanese history to make it seem like Japan is to blame in World War 2'. While victors do re-write history to some extent, the Japanese penchant for ignoring realities of recent history is actually becoming more wacky considering that there is far more access to information now.

[Russell]

Wangta, there is more access to information these days, but is this information in Japanese?

Do not expect them nationalists to be able to decipher articles in anything else.

[matsuki]

Wangta, there is more access to information these days, but is this information in Japanese?

Do not expect them nationalists to be able to decipher articles in anything else.

This is probably why Japan is forever a shima-guni...

Speaking of which, are there any major Japanese language media outlets that are based outside Japan? (out of reach of the new North Korea's secret laws?)

[wangta]

Wangta, there is more access to information these days, but is this information in Japanese?

Do not expect them nationalists to be able to decipher articles in anything else.

Russell - thanks for your reply before re the Santa/Black Piet custom. I tried to reply last week but for some reason the browser timed out before I could do so. I just want to point out that I understand the Netherlands has a tradition of being an open minded and tolerant society, controversies about Black Piet aside.

It's especially noticeable by contrast to what goes on in Italian society with fascists openly congregating at soccer matches and their opponents being arrested by police (Lazio games) and the Black Minister for Integration being pelted with bananas by that kind of Italian racist (not saying most Italian people are like that, just pointing out the opportunities to do these things in Italy). What I found especially disturbing in that was the fact that she is the Minister for Integration, it's not like she's the MInister for Multicultural Politically Correct Separatism.

If she was, the incident would be just as bad but the fact that there are segments of the Italian population that get away with this kind of behaviour and resent black people's attempts to integrate to Italian society says a lot and none of it positive.

[Russell]

Wangta, I agree that these events in Italy are disgraceful, but I do not know what percentage of the population in Italy supports this kind of behavior. I kind of hope it is a small part, though it cannot denied that the Italians reelected a guy like Berlusconi again and again, so maybe my hope is easily dashed.

Anyway, soccer fans are notorious, whether that is in Italy, the Netherlands, or anywhere else.

Now back to Kimonos...

[Taro Toporific]

If you're going to do kimono/geisha cosplay, this is the way to do it right!

epic-fake-geisha.jpg

via DistantDystopia