English schools face huge insurance probe

[FG Lurker]

English schools face huge insurance probe
The Japan Times, April 12, 2005

The Social Insurance Agency is to investigate Japan's largest English-language teaching companies over a suspected failure to enroll their full-time foreign employees in the employees' pension and health insurance schemes.

(Full Story)

I've always wondered how the big schools managed to flaunt the law like this.

[kamome]

It's good to see NOVA getting smacked down by the government, but now the foreign teachers are going to get screwed by being forced to enroll in Japan's social insurance scheme and pay the high premiums. And no one would want to enroll in Japan's social insurance scheme unless they are planning to be long-term residents. I think people would much rather buy their own global health care insurance and avoid Japan's pension scheme altogether.

It was fraudulent for NOVA to withhold information from teachers in order to entice them to buy NOVA's bogus insurance. But it is true that no gaijin, if given an informed choice, would want to enroll in the national plan either.

[FG Lurker]

National Health gets a rather undeserved bad rap in my opinion.

It is true that you pay a percentage of your hospital bill under National Health, but it is capped at about 60,000yen per month. If you end up in the hospital needing major medical treatment you won't end up paying a small fortune.

A lot of the private schemes also have quite low limits for coverage. One person I personally knew was walking around perfectly fine one day and nearly died of a brain aneurysm that night. He was on a private plan but it wasn't enough. In the end his wife ended up paying the 7 or 8 years of National Health back-payments (and penalties) to get coverage -- it was cheaper than paying the full hospital bill that the private insurance wouldn't cover. His is an extreme case, but extreme cases are why people buy insurance.

Beyond that though, National Health is part of life in Japan. People come here and are happy to make $$$ they can't make at home, but they aren't willing to contribute to the social structure of the country supporting them... To me that isn't right.

National Health should remain mandatory, and *everyone* working in Japan should have to join.

[amdg]

National Health gets a rather undeserved bad rap in my opinion.

It is true that you pay a percentage of your hospital bill under National Health, but it is capped at about 60,000yen per month. If you end up in the hospital needing major medical treatment you won't end up paying a small fortune.

A lot of the private schemes also have quite low limits for coverage. One person I personally knew was walking around perfectly fine one day and nearly died of a brain aneurysm that night. He was on a private plan but it wasn't enough. In the end his wife ended up paying the 7 or 8 years of National Health back-payments (and penalties) to get coverage -- it was cheaper than paying the full hospital bill that the private insurance wouldn't cover. His is an extreme case, but extreme cases are why people buy insurance.

Beyond that though, National Health is part of life in Japan. People come here and are happy to make $$$ they can't make at home, but they aren't willing to contribute to the social structure of the country supporting them... To me that isn't right.

National Health should remain mandatory, and *everyone* working in Japan should have to join.

Well FGL, they do pay taxes - income and city. Perhaps infrastructure and social services should be kept seperate from medical care in terms of revenue raising. By the way, a health insurance system where you have to specify the diseases for which you want coverage scares me. Does it scare anyone else to see those ads on TV - "just an extra xx per month will also insure you for cancer and diabetes!"

Edit - On Topic: English schools face huge insurance probe

I hope the probe is long and large.

[FG Lurker]

Well FGL, they do pay taxes - income and city.

Income yes, but many try to skip out on city taxes, something that is getting a lot harder to do these days.

Perhaps infrastructure and social services should be kept seperate from medical care in terms of revenue raising.

Medical care is a social service -- many would say that universal access to medical care is the primary social service.

By the way, a health insurance system where you have to specify the diseases for which you want coverage scares me. Does it scare anyone else to see those ads on TV - "just an extra xx per month will also insure you for cancer and diabetes!"

This has nothing to do with National Health. These are private schemes that pay money per day if you are in the hospital to help cover lost wages and other additional costs.

Really, if people are not willing to contribute to where they live then they should leave.

[canman]

When I was with Geos, they had us on accident insurance with AIU. On the one hand it sucked when I would go to the hosptital and they would ask for my insurance card. I would have to explain that I didn't have National Health insurance. Boy would their reaction change quickly. Then I became like any other alien trying to rip off Japan. I would dutifully pay the full cost and then get reimbursed by the insurance company.
The nice thing about it is that my medical was covered 100%, when I had a knee operation, I got the full 350 000 back, plus my life insurance company paid me 60 000 so I made money on the deal.
This will be a huge benefit for both programs. If you think about most of the teachers who work for the big English Schools are all relatively young and healthy. So they will be picking up their premiums without much payout. The pension systme the same. They can get some money back, but anything will be a benefit.

[canman]

When I came to Japan, I didn't know that I had a choice. The company never informed us. And I think that people that do live and work here should join and pay. But the pension scheme should have a better return percentage, like 100%, maybe no interest, but at least pay back what people put in. That would be fair.

[FG Lurker]

When I came to Japan, I didn't know that I had a choice. The company never informed us. And I think that people that do live and work here should join and pay. But the pension scheme should have a better return percentage, like 100%, maybe no interest, but at least pay back what people put in. That would be fair.

I agree 100% that the pension system should be reformed. The problem is that the gov't is using the current payers' premiums to pay pensions to people who have already retired.

They're stuck in a vicious circle -- if they reform things to work like they *should*, then they have no $$$ to pay out to pensioners now. If they leave it like it is then the whole thing will implode in xx years... (20? 30? 50?) As with most politicians the J-gov't would sooner avoid the tough problems they face now and hope someone else can take care of it later...

[dimwit]

The Union Rep sounds like a right prick

The point of lodging the complaint, says Tesolat, is not to see Nova punished in any way, however. "The purpose of this action is not to punish the companies but to make sure that the people who work for these companies are getting adequate health care. It is expensive; it doesn't offer the coverage it should, but it is better than not having it at all."

Basically the coverage is going to come out of the teachers pay meaning a considerable reduction in Joe Eikaiwa modest income, includes paying into a pension system that none of them will ever see. Most short term stayers are far better of returning home to get medical treatment then to stick around here. I can't think of who benefits from this kind of whistleblowing.

Thanks Dennis, I am sure the Japanese government will thank you by giving you free lifetime insurance.

[canman]

Dimwit, I don't know if you remember but I think good old Dennis has been waiting a long time to stick it to Nova. since he was fired from the company for forming the union, he has been doing everything in his power to pay back the compnay. It looks like he has found his thing.
I agree with you, the teachers will be the ones who will suffer, the company will now pay even less. And as I mentioned before most of the people probably won't even use the insurance system while they are here. What a rip for these kids.

[FG Lurker]

Basically the coverage is going to come out of the teachers pay meaning a considerable reduction in Joe Eikaiwa modest income,

The coverage comes 50-50 from employer and employee.

includes paying into a pension system that none of them will ever see.

You get back 90% of your pension payments for the last 3 years if you apply for it when you leave. For most teachers that is like an enforced savings plan, as long as they don't get lazy and not apply.

Most short term stayers are far better of returning home to get medical treatment then to stick around here.

That depends on where they are from and what coverage options they have at home. If they are Canadian (and are in condition to travel) then they might be better off going home. If they are American with no medical insurance then I'd say Japan is a better place to be...

I can't think of who benefits from this kind of whistleblowing.

Well, any teacher who ends up needing serious medical treatment will benefit. Also society as a whole by stopping the freeloading. The ones who have the most to lose are the big companies. Nova for example would end up paying half of insurance/pension for 5000 more employees *and* lose the income from their JMA scam/plan.

As for salary, if it lowers net salary to the point that the companies can't hire enough people then they will have to increase wages... If they are still getting enough people then it isn't too much burden.

Thanks Dennis, I am sure the Japanese government will thank you by you free lifetime insurance.

Generally speaking I am not pro-union but in this case I think the union has done the right thing.

[dimwit]

The coverage comes 50-50 from employer and employee.

I theory yes that is true. Most likely, NOVA will get the money back from say, increasing the rent in the NOVA apartments, and other means which basically guarentee that it comes out to 100% employee payments. Mark my words on that.

You get back 90% of your pension payments for the last 3 years if you apply for it when you leave. For most teachers that is like an enforced savings plan, as long as they don't get lazy and not apply.

Some savings plan! It takes 10% of what you put in an gives you nothing in return. A bank that tried to pull that wouldn't be in business very long.

That depends on where they are from and what coverage options they have at home. If they are Canadian (and are in condition to travel) then they might be better off going home. If they are American with no medical insurance then I'd say Japan is a better place to be...

Being a Canadian I can only judge by what I know, id est, as a Canadian you are far better of returning to Canada if you are ill.

Well, any teacher who ends up needing serious medical treatment will benefit. Also society as a whole by stopping the freeloading.

Is paying into a pension system that you'll never see freeloading, is paying into a medical system you never use freeloading? Sorry I strongly disagree. Generally, those who sign up to the be Eikaiwa teacher are in good health or they wouldn't consider making the move to Japan. Considering the length of time most stay in the country the whole system is a rip off. By informing the government of the situation Mr. Tesloat is doing nothing to help them. If Canman is right and he is doing this as a grudge, then someone ought to escort him to the door before he starts trying to 'help' eikaiwa teachers anymore.

[FG Lurker]

The coverage comes 50-50 from employer and employee.

I theory yes that is true. Most likely, NOVA will get the money back from say, increasing the rent in the NOVA apartments, and other means which basically guarentee that it comes out to 100% employee payments. Mark my words on that.

There is a fine line that they have to tread. They already overcharge for their apartments. If they overcharged even more, a much higher percentage of teachers would move to other accommodation, of which there is plenty available.

You get back 90% of your pension payments for the last 3 years if you apply for it when you leave. For most teachers that is like an enforced savings plan, as long as they don't get lazy and not apply.

Some savings plan! It takes 10% of what you put in an gives you nothing in return. A bank that tried to pull that wouldn't be in business very long.

All banks do that! Especially Canadian ones, in my experience. Service charges for this, fees for that, and shitty shitty service to boot. ]

That depends on where they are from and what coverage options they have at home. If they are Canadian (and are in condition to travel) then they might be better off going home. If they are American with no medical insurance then I'd say Japan is a better place to be...

Being a Canadian I can only judge by what I know, id est, as a Canadian you are far better of returning to Canada if you are ill.[/quote]
Yes, as Canadians we are very lucky...Although we certainly pay for it with much higher taxes.

Well, any teacher who ends up needing serious medical treatment will benefit. Also society as a whole by stopping the freeloading.

Is paying into a pension system that you'll never see freeloading, is paying into a medical system you never use freeloading?

By your logic most English teachers wouldn't be freeloading even if they didn't pay any tax at all in Japan. How many Eikaiwa workers have kids in school here? How many drive cars? They are paying for roads and schools (and a whole multitude of other services they probably don't use) through their taxes.

The fact is that the rules of the land here say that all people working in Japan must join National Health and the pension plan. Canada (at least BC) is no different -- if you have a work or study visa you are considered a resident and *must* enroll in BC Med. I am not sure about the CPP, but I would imagine it is the same.

If the big schools are not paying their teachers enough to cover these additional expenses then the teachers will leave. At that time the schools will have to raise salaries to attract new staff.

[dimwit]

I do agree that long termers with families should, and in my case at least, do, pay into both medical and pension plans.

I this case, my feelings for both NOVA and the union are similar to my feelings about the NHLPA and NHL owners association.

[FG Lurker]

I do agree that long termers with families should, and in my case at least, do, pay into both medical and pension plans.

I think the pension plan is a scam, but I still pay. I could do much better things with that money if I didn't have to give it to the gov't though... But medical I think should be mandatory for everyone, young and healthy or older and not-so-healthy.

I this case, my feelings for both NOVA and the union are similar to my feelings about the NHLPA and NHL owners association.

Yes, I can relate to that. I haven't worked for Nova for a long, long time. I never had problems with them when I did, but I know the horror stories. And in general I am very anti-union... I guess my feelings about health care override my anti-union feelings in this case.

[kamome]

I disagree with the notion that national medical should be mandatory. At least give the teachers a choice of paying into the national system or getting their own private health care. The private global plans are great for foreigners because they usually include medevac services for serious accidents and will cover you when you visit your home country. The Japanese system will not cover you outside of the country.

As I said, the Japanese system is pretty good if you're a Japan lifer. But I see no reason to force short term J-residents to pay into it.

[FG Lurker]

I disagree with the notion that national medical should be mandatory. At least give the teachers a choice of paying into the national system or getting their own private health care. The private global plans are great for foreigners because they usually include medevac services for serious accidents and will cover you when you visit your home country. The Japanese system will not cover you outside of the country.

As I said, the Japanese system is pretty good if you're a Japan lifer. But I see no reason to force short term J-residents to pay into it.

I understand that many people (especially people from countries that are not used to universal health care) will disagree with my opinions on this. But agree or disagree, it is the law of the land and should be followed by everyone here.

Universal health care falls apart once it is no longer universal. Being young and/or healthy or being a short-term resident are not valid reasons to skip out on National Health.

As for the cost, calculate it as part of the income "tax" that you have to pay. For the first year a person is here it is almost free. After that it is based on your previous year's income. If including it in your "tax" calculations makes the tax burden here too high then it might be a good idea to look elsewhere for a better opportunity.

[Samurai_Jerk]

BTW, Americans, even if you have Japanese national health insurance it's still worthwhile to have private insurance that is regonized in the US. US insurance companies do not recognize Japanese national insurance and if you ever go home they will consider you as having been uninsured. That means any medical problems you've had will be considered pre existing conditions and no insurance company in the US will cover them.

[Mulboyne]

Japan Times: New Nova hours pose health risk
Nova Corp., Japan's largest employer of foreign nationals, is set to amend its working times from this week, a move which could see thousands of foreign teachers become ineligible for Employees Health Insurance, and save the company as much as 1 billion yen a year in the process. Teachers representatives have slammed the moves, accusing Nova of trying to "wriggle out" of its insurance obligations and placing instructors' security at risk...more...

[FG Lurker]

It's damn funny watching Nova try to wriggle out of this!

It seems clear that in the end they are going to have to start paying. The question now though is will they have to pay for all the back-payments they've skipped?