Nobel Dilemma Puts Dual Nationality On The Agenda

[Mulboyne]

Japan Probe links to a post on Let's Japan which has picked up on a Sankei article (Japanese). The article says that the issue of dual citizenship may be up for discussion prompted by the realization that Nobel prizewinner Yoichiro Nambu is no longer legally Japanese. When Nambu took American citizenship, he was obliged to give up his Japanese passport. The article notes that the onus is on the individual to report that he has adopted another nationality which means that many people have actually retained their passports and voting rights illegally. One estimate suggests only one in ten notify the authorities which leaves a large number of unofficial dual nationals. The Sankei reports as one reason, that Japanese who take the nationality of an unstable state are often reluctant to lose their Japanese status. It's interesting they make that point because I would imagine the number of people in that position is very small. Most people just want the convenience of both worlds. It does show, however, that the reporter is groping for reasons to permit dual nationality beyond making sure that Japan doesn't lose another nobel winner. The main news in the article is that the LDP will set up a review to weigh the pros and cons of the current laws which might lead to dual nationality being permitted.

[plaid_knight]

I hope they decide in favor of it. I'd love to have Japanese nationality, but I don't want to give up my American nationality in order to have it.

[wuchan]

I hope they decide in favor of it. I'd love to have Japanese nationality, but I don't want to give up my American nationality in order to have it.

If you are American you must give up your American citizenship to take on another. The USA no longer allows dual citizenship. In the case of minors born to American citizens and foreign nationals, they (the child) must choose which country they want to swear allegiance to on their 18th birthday (or when their draft card comes). If it is found that a person chose US citizenship (by signing a draft card or registering to vote) and still hold a foreign passport, that person is subject to arrest. In most cases they are only forced to give up one passport. If they choose to keep the US passport the other one is delivered to the closest consulate of the other country by either the GP (government police) or the secret service.

[omae mona]

If you are American you must give up your American citizenship to take on another. The USA no longer allows dual citizenship. In the case of minors born to American citizens and foreign nationals, they (the child) must choose which country they want to swear allegiance to on their 18th birthday (or when their draft card comes). If it is found that a person chose US citizenship (by signing a draft card or registering to vote) and still hold a foreign passport, that person is subject to arrest. In most cases they are only forced to give up one passport. If they choose to keep the US passport the other one is delivered to the closest consulate of the other country by either the GP (government police) or the secret service.

Wuchan, can you provide a link or some evidence, please? I am not a lawyer, but the US State Department homepage seems to contradict you very strongly.

Dual Nationality

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth.U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

In other words, it's virtually impossible to lose US citizenship if that's not your intent.

[Charles]

If you are American you must give up your American citizenship to take on another. The USA no longer allows dual citizenship. In the case of minors born to American citizens and foreign nationals, they (the child) must choose which country they want to swear allegiance to on their 18th birthday (or when their draft card comes). If it is found that a person chose US citizenship (by signing a draft card or registering to vote) and still hold a foreign passport, that person is subject to arrest. In most cases they are only forced to give up one passport. If they choose to keep the US passport the other one is delivered to the closest consulate of the other country by either the GP (government police) or the secret service.

Wrong.

The concept of dual nationality means that a person is a citizen of two countries at the same time. Each country has its own citizenship laws based on its own policy.Persons may have dual nationality by automatic operation of different laws rather than by choice. For example, a child born in a foreign country to U.S. citizen parents may be both a U.S. citizen and a citizen of the country of birth.

A U.S. citizen may acquire foreign citizenship by marriage, or a person naturalized as a U.S. citizen may not lose the citizenship of the country of birth. U.S. law does not mention dual nationality or require a person to choose one citizenship or another. Also, a person who is automatically granted another citizenship does not risk losing U.S. citizenship. However, a person who acquires a foreign citizenship by applying for it may lose U.S. citizenship. In order to lose U.S. citizenship, the law requires that the person must apply for the foreign citizenship voluntarily, by free choice, and with the intention to give up U.S. citizenship.

Intent can be shown by the person's statements or conduct. The U.S. Government recognizes that dual nationality exists but does not encourage it as a matter of policy because of the problems it may cause. Claims of other countries on dual national U.S. citizens may conflict with U.S. law, and dual nationality may limit U.S. Government efforts to assist citizens abroad. The country where a dual national is located generally has a stronger claim to that person's allegiance.

[omae mona]

First!

[bolt_krank]

I just like that fact that as soon as someone does something that makes them famous - then they should be Japanese. Had he not gotten the Nobel prize - they'd be against it...

[james]

If you are American you must give up your American citizenship to take on another. The USA no longer allows dual citizenship.

not sure about this. i know plenty of canadian-american dual nationals, some fairly recent and of the age of majority in both countries.

[Behan]

I think Debito posted about it on his web site that the US government doesn't want you to give up your citizenship. Maybe one reason is that they can try to keep getting income tax money out of you.
If you don't make a bit issue out of it and attract attention to yourself you can probably keep dual US-Japanese citizenship.
But, having said that, what should you do when you travel between countries? If you use only one passport, then one of the countries might want to stamp a tourist visa into your passport. If you let that expire in country couldn't they come after your for overstaying?
If you used both passports wouldn't it seem strange to immigration officers that you wouldn't have entrance and exit stamps?

[Greji]

If you are American you must give up your American citizenship to take on another. The USA no longer allows dual citizenship. In the case of minors born to American citizens and foreign nationals, they (the child) must choose which country they want to swear allegiance to on their 18th birthday (or when their draft card comes).

I don't know the source of your info and would be interested in hearing it, as I am sure other people on the board would, who I do know hold two passports. All of my Children have both and travel to and from the states frequently on both, leaving Japan on their Japanese and arriving in the US on their US passport. They have encountered no problems to date and are all over 21. My 22 year old son was at the US Embassy straightening out a mistake in his social security number and some other paperwork problems that originated from that mistake and they used his Japanese passport as an additional official document for his local identification, along with a copy of his Jiminhyou (only given to Japanese). They didn't question it, or even act curious.

[Behan]

I guess you just answered my question in your post, Greji, but that was something I was worried about as my son gets closer to 18. I was worried that the immigration officers would want to know why, after being overseas, you had not foreign countries' visas stamped into your passport. But if there are a lot of people in this situation maybe they see passports lilke that a lot.

[Greji]

I guess you just answered my question in your post, Greji, but that was something I was worried about as my son gets closer to 18. I was worried that the immigration officers would want to know why, after being overseas, you had not foreign countries' visas stamped into your passport. But if there are a lot of people in this situation maybe they see passports lilke that a lot.

Even if that were to come up, the answer is simple. I was on my Japanese passport as I was born in Japan/I am a duo-citizen, etc. A passport is the property of the issuing country and only that country can revoke it, or seize it. Hence, the US Immigrations agents can not take a Japanese Passport unless it were determined to be counterfeit, or the direct fruits of a crime. They can only seize your US passport, but then only when appropriate cause/or a specific violation is indicated.

[leitmotiv]

I just like that fact that as soon as someone does something that makes them famous - then they should be Japanese. Had he not gotten the Nobel prize - they'd be against it...

And if had been Japanese and working within Japan and tried to be original, unique, paradigm-shifting, etc in his approach to a particular topic (as is generally seen in Nobel award research), he probably would be shunned and required to go elsewhere, take up another nationality, use non-Japan grant money, etc........until he becomes famous.....

[Behan]

Thanks, Greji.

[wuchan]

Ok here we go.......

First, if you want to become a US citizen through the naturalization process you must give up your citizenship of your home country or:

INA: ACT 340 - REVOCATION OF NATURALIZATION


Sec. 340. [8 U.S.C. 1451]

(a) It shall be the duty of the United States attorneys for the respective districts, upon affidavit showing good cause therefor, to institute proceedings in any district court of the United States in the judicial district in which the naturalized citizen may reside at the time of bringing suit, for the purpose of revoking and setting aside the order admitting such person to citizenship and canceling the certificate of naturalization on the ground that such order and certificate of naturalization were illegally procured or were procured by concealment of a material fact or by willful misrepresentation, and such revocation and setting aside of the order admitting such person to citizenship and such canceling of certificate of naturalization shall be effective as of the original date of the order and certificate, respectively: Provided, That refusal on the part of a naturalized citizen within a period of ten years following his naturalization to testify as a witness in any proceeding before a congressional co mmittee concerning his subversive activities, in a case where such person has been convicted for contempt for such refusal, shall be held to constitute a ground for revocation of such person's naturalization under this subsection as having been procured by concealment of a material fact or by willful misrepresentation. If the naturalized citizen does not reside in any judicial district in the United States at the time of bringing such suit, the proceedings may be instituted in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia or in the United States district court in the judicial district in which such person last had his residence.
(b) The party to whom was granted the naturalization alleged to have been illegally procured or procured by concealment of a material fact or by willful misrepresentation shall, in any such proceedings under subsection (a) of this section, have sixty days' personal notice, unless waived by such party, in which to make answer to the petition of the United States; and if such naturalized person be absent from the United States or from the judicial district in which such person last had his residence, such not ice shall be given either by personal service upon him or by publication in the manner provided for the service of summons by publication or upon absentees by the laws of the State or the place where such suit is brought.


(c) If a person who shall have been naturalized after December 24, 1952 shall within five years next following such naturalization become a member of or affiliated with any organization, membership in or affiliation with which at the time of naturalization would have precluded such person from naturalization under the provisions of section 313, it shall be considered prima facie evidence that such person was not attached to the principles of the Constitution of the United States and was not well disposed t o the good order and happiness of the United States at the time of naturalization, and, in the absence of countervailing evidence, it shall be sufficient in the proper proceeding to authorize the revocation and setting aside of the order admitting such person to citizenship and the cancellation of the certificate of naturalization as having been obtained by concealment of a material fact or by willful misrepresentation, and such revocation and setting aside of the order admitting such person to citizenship and such canceling of certificate of naturalization shall be effective as of the original date of the order and certificate, respectively.

(d) [Former subsection (d) was repealed by Sec. 104(b) of the Immigration and Nationality Technical Corrections Act of 1994 (Pub. L. 103-416 , 108 Stat. 4308, Oct. 25, 1994), applicable to persons admitted to citizenship on or after October 25, 1994 under Sec. 104(e) of that Act. Subsequent subsections were redesignated respectively by Sec. 104(c) of the Immigration and Nationality Technical Corrections Act of 1994 (Pub. L. 103-416 , 108 Stat. 4308, Oct. 25, 1994) .]
(d) Any person who claims United States citizenship through the naturalization of a parent or spouse in whose case there is a revocation and setting aside of the order admitting such parent or spouse to citizenship under the provisions of subsection (a) of this section on the ground that the order and certificate of naturalization were procured by concealment of a material fact or by willful misrepresentation shall be deemed to have lost and to lose his citizenship and any right or privilege of citizenship which he may have, now has, or may hereafter acquire under and by virtue of such naturalization of such parent or spouse, regardless of whether such person is residing within or without the United States at the time of the revocation and setting aside of the order admitting such parent or spouse to citizenship. Any person who claims United States citizenship through the naturalization of a parent or spouse in whose case there is a revocation and setting aside of the order admitting such parent or spouse to citizenship and the cancellation of the certificate of naturalization under the provisions of subsection (c) of this section, or under the provisions of section 329(c) of this title on any ground other than that the order and certificate of naturalization were procured by concealment of a material fact or by willful misrepresentation, shall be deemed to have lost and to lose his citizenship and any right or privilege of citizenship which would have been enjoyed by such person had there not been a revocation and setting aside of the order admitting such parent or spouse to citizenship and the cancellation of the certificate of naturalization, unless such person is residin g in the United States at the time of the revocation and setting aside of the order admitting such parent or spouse to citizenship and the cancellation of the certificate of naturalization.
(e) When a person shall be convicted under section 1425 of title 18 of the United States Code of knowingly procuring naturalization in violation of law, the court in which such conviction is had shall thereupon revoke, set aside, and declare void the final order admitting such person to citizenship, and shall declare the certificate of naturalization of such person to be canceled. Jurisdiction is hereby conferred on the courts having jurisdiction of the trial of such offense to make such adjudication.

(f) Whenever an order admitting an alien to citizenship shall be revoked and set aside or a certificate of naturalization shall be canceled, or both, as provided in this section, the court in which such judgment or decree is rendered shall make an order canceling such certificate and shall send a certified copy of such order to the Attorney General. The clerk of court shall transmit a copy of such order and judgment to the Attorney General. A person holding a certificate of naturalization or citizenship wh ich has been canceled as provided by this section shall upon notice by the court by which the decree of cancellation was made, or by the Attorney General, surrender the same to the Attorney General.
(g) The provisions of this section shall apply not only to any naturalization granted and to certificates of naturalization and citizenship issued under the provisions of this title, but to any naturalization heretofore granted by any court, and to all certificates of naturalization and citizenship which may have been issued heretofore by any court or by the Commissioner based upon naturalization granted by any court, or by a designated representative of the Commissioner under the provisions of section 702 of the Nationality Act of 1940, as amended, or by such designated representative under any other Act.
(h) Nothing contained in this section shall be regarded as limiting, denying, or restricting the power of the Attorney General to correct, reopen, alter, modify, or vacate an order naturalizing the person.

the key is in the part where they said you "willfully misrepresented" yourself by keeping your old passport.

more to come....

[Behan]

I admit I haven't read your post yet, but Greji and I were talking about children who had US citizenship from birth, not 'naturalized' citizens. Kids like this aren't acquiring citizenship at eighteen. They have had both all along. I was wondering if they had to relinquish one.

[wuchan]

US natural born citizens

INA: ACT 349 - LOSS OF NATIONALITY BY NATIVE-BORN OR NATURALIZED CITIZEN


Sec. 349. [8 U.S.C. 1481]

(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality-

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or

(2) taking an oath or making an affirmation or other formal declaration of allegiance to a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after having attained the age of eighteen years; or

(3) entering, or serving in, the armed forces of a foreign state if

(A) such armed forces are engaged in hostilities against the United States, or

(B) such persons serve as a commissioned or non-commissioned officer; or

(4) (A) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years if he has or acquires the nationality of such foreign state; or

(B) accepting, serving in, or performing the duties of any office, post, or employment under the government of a foreign state or a political subdivision thereof, after attaining the age of eighteen years for which office, post, or employment an oath, affirmation, or declaration of allegiance is required; or

(5) making a formal renunciation of nationality before a diplomatic or consular officer of the United States in a foreign state, in such form as may be prescribed by the Secretary of State; or


(6) making in the United States a formal written renunciation of nationality in such form as may be prescribed by, and before such officer as may be designated by, the Attorney General, whenever the United States shall be in a state of war and the Attorney General shall approve such renunciation as not contrary to the interests of national defense; or

(7) committing any act of treason against, or attempting by force to overthrow, or bearing arms against, the United States, violating or conspiring to violate any of the provisions of section 2383 of title 18, United States Code, or willfully performing any act in violation of section 2385 of title 18, United States Code, or violating section 2384 of said title by engaging in a conspiracy to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, if an d when he is convicted thereof by a court martial or by a court of competent jurisdiction.

(b) 1/ Whenever the loss of United States nationality is put in issue in any action or proceeding commenced on or after the enactment of this subsection under, or by virtue of, the provisions of this or any other Act, the burden shall be upon the person or party claiming that such loss occurred, to establish such claim by a preponderance of the evidence. Any person who commits or performs, or who has committed or performed, any act of expatriation under the provisions of this or any other Act shall be presumed to have done so voluntarily, but such presumption may be rebutted upon a showing, by a preponderance of the evidence, that the act or acts committed or performed were not done voluntarily.

When this was originally written there were more acts that gave other conditions, some allowed you to keep us citizenship in almost any case except treason, joining a foreign military, or writing a letter to the state department saying that you are giving it up. Since the US Patriot Act, Acts 350, 352, 353, 354, and 355 were repealed.

My son is dual. You would not believe the shit I went through when Homeland Security discovered that we also obtained a Japanese passport through the local consulate.

Link here

[Behan]

Thanks for the post, Wuchan. I'm not trying to argue or be difficult because I don't understand myself but this kind of caught my eye:

(a) A person who is a national of the United States whether by birth or naturalization, shall lose his nationality by voluntarily performing any of the following acts with the intention of relinquishing United States nationality-

(1) obtaining naturalization in a foreign state upon his own application or upon an application filed by a duly authorized agent, after having attained the age of eighteen years;

With kids who were born with dual Japanese citizenship, would these apply? They already have Japanese citizenship so would they be 'obtaining naturalization [upon their own application]'?

[wuchan]

Thanks for the post, Wuchan. I'm not trying to argue or be difficult because I don't understand myself but this kind of caught my eye:

With kids who were born with dual Japanese citizenship, would these apply? They already have Japanese citizenship so would they be 'obtaining naturalization [upon their own application]'?

The short answer is no. What I was told back in the states was due to the fact that my child was a minor, and less that 1 year of age, he did not voluntarily perform any of the actions to void his US citizenship. But after 18 he has to follow all those rules. Basically, he can't join the military, work for the government, work for the post office(I'm not sure how it works with privatized posts), become a terrorist, or commit an act of treason. They want him to choose and the Japanese government will revoke his passport here if they discover the US one but only after he is 18.

[omae mona]

Wuchan, sorry to besmirch your legal credentials, but you are missing the key phrase. The entire list of criteria you posted from the Immigration and Naturalization Act is predicated (as you can see on the first line) on the individual's "intention of relinquishing United States nationality". If you don't intend to relinquish nationality, it won't be taken away from you.

Your interpretation of the law is wrong. I am not a lawyer either (and I'm stupid, to boot), but I am relying on the explanatory text at the Department Of State (link in my previous message) and text from the the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo. Here's what the embassy says about how to properly interpret INA Act 349, which you posted:

In order for loss of nationality to occur under Section 349(a)(1), it must be established that the naturalization was obtained with the intention of relinquishing U.S. citizenship. Such an intention may be shown by a person's statements or conduct. If the U.S. Government is unable to prove that the person had such an intention when applying for and obtaining the foreign citizenship, the person will have both nationalities.

And as others pointed out, none of this applies to a U.S. citizen who automatically obtained foreign citizenship.

My son is dual. You would not believe the shit I went through when Homeland Security discovered that we also obtained a Japanese passport through the local consulate.

Maybe we would believe it. Give us a shot! What happened? I am very curious why Homeland Security even *knew* about your son's Japanese passport. You didn't attempt to show it to them when entering the U.S., did you?

I once was stupid enough to ask the officer which passport I should use for my daughter, while going through immigration at a U.S. airport. I got a very snarky response. He pulled his glasses down low on his nose and peered out over them with his eyebrows up, as if to say "are you retarded?". And he said "well, tell me. What country are we in?". I replied courteously "ok, point taken" and handed over the U.S. passport.

[Greji]

My son is dual. You would not believe the shit I went through when Homeland Security discovered that we also obtained a Japanese passport through the local consulate.

Quite obviously, you can be at the mercy of who is on the other side of the counter. However, having said that, it is the policy of all governments to include the US to refrain from forcing a citizen to give up their citizenship, be it because of duo-nationality or whatever. An individual working for the US Government has certain limitations to their authority and to force a citizen to deny his country without cause is beyond this authority.

Neither, as I said, do they have the authority to seize the passport of a foreign country without probable cause. Actually, I am more surprised that you did not have trouble obtaining the renewal of a Japanese passport abroad as they can be very difficult, when no visa is apparent, with that process by either slowing it to a crawl, or refusing to issue one unless you return to Japan.

The thrust of that law you are quoting, which is already been found to be faulty is concerning naturalized citizens and there were many provisions included that are now waiverable for other than naturalized citizens, because it is just that, bad legislation.

One of my sons (who still operates as a duo) went to register his new born daughter as a US citizen, but because although he is a US Citizen, he does not have sufficient time residing in the states since he was 16. The Embassy staff said this is another fault in that law. The Embassy then had him apply to have her registered as a US Citizen born abroad, so that the Embassy could officially reject the application. They then him had to apply for an immigration visa including the rejection for citizenship as an attachment. Being the daughter of a Citizen the visa was rubber stamped and they then make a trip to the states (any US possession would work) and the minute the daughter's Japanese passport was stamped into the states, she legally became a US citizen and the Embassy could approve her.

I said this was a bunch of shit and the embassy people agreed, but told us that congress had rammed through this legislation as part of the so-called immigration control reforms for political purposes with no background work done on the bill's preparation and it is now recognized as exactly that, "a bunch of shit". So they have to work around all these problems it has created. So what you see in all those fancy verbalizations in that legal document, is not what you're going to get! If you are trying to do things on the up and up, just ask the embassy staff and although it can be a pain in the arse, they are the ones who must approve it and can tell you what you need to do to get around that BS bill.

[wuchan]

Wuchan, sorry to besmirch your legal credentials, but you are missing the key phrase. The entire list of criteria you posted from the Immigration and Naturalization Act is predicated (as you can see on the first line) on the individual's "intention of relinquishing United States nationality". If you don't intend to relinquish nationality, it won't be taken away from you.

Your interpretation of the law is wrong. I am not a lawyer either (and I'm stupid, to boot), but I am relying on the explanatory text at the Department Of State (link in my previous message) and text from the the U.S. Embassy in Tokyo. Here's what the embassy says about how to properly interpret INA Act 349, which you posted:


And as others pointed out, none of this applies to a U.S. citizen who automatically obtained foreign citizenship.

Maybe we would believe it. Give us a shot! What happened? I am very curious why Homeland Security even *knew* about your son's Japanese passport. You didn't attempt to show it to them when entering the U.S., did you?

I once was stupid enough to ask the officer which passport I should use for my daughter, while going through immigration at a U.S. airport. I got a very snarky response. He pulled his glasses down low on his nose and peered out over them with his eyebrows up, as if to say "are you retarded?". And he said "well, tell me. What country are we in?". I replied courteously "ok, point taken" and handed over the U.S. passport.

HAHAHAH at the airport! Nah, somehow they found out when we were renewing my wife's green card. Maybe she told them. I got a call from the local immigration office requesting that I, I should not have to go for a renewal, go down there with my kid's passport (US), birth cert, health insurance forms, my marriage cert, my passport, my and my wife's tax forms for the past five years, and my birth cert. When I went I sat around for seven hours while they decided what to do. Finally I met with an immigration officer and he informed me that the immigration office is now part of homeland security and some "red flags" were raised when the renewal papers were submitted. He sent me home without any of the paper work I had given and didn't even say sorry. Three weeks later the paperwork came back in the mail and no green card. Two after that my wife was called down and was finally given her new card. A renewal should take two weeks, this took 3 months.



PS my son was born on American soil.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I'd love to have Japanese nationality

Why?

[Greji]

HAHAHAH at the airport! Nah, somehow they found out when we were renewing my wife's green card. Maybe she told them. I got a call from the local immigration office requesting that I, I should not have to go for a renewal, go down there with my kid's passport (US), birth cert, health insurance forms, my marriage cert, my passport, my and my wife's tax forms for the past five years, and my birth cert. When I went I sat around for seven hours while they decided what to do. Finally I met with an immigration officer and he informed me that the immigration office is now part of homeland security and some "red flags" were raised when the renewal papers were submitted. He sent me home without any of the paper work I had given and didn't even say sorry. Three weeks later the paperwork came back in the mail and no green card. Two after that my wife was called down and was finally given her new card. A renewal should take two weeks, this took 3 months.



PS my son was born on American soil.

This again is probably a result of that previous bill that I was talking about. The staff at the embassy (who I deal with frequently in business) have been quite forthcoming although I'm sure they wouldn't as an official announcement. Apparently, several members of congress decided they could score points if the could ram this bill through to prevent aliens who had been admitted to the US as such and subsequently became naturalized, from using their new and retained old citizenship to bring over tons of relatives and friends and the guy down the block under the previous statutes. The embassy staffers said if was obvious that little to no background work or consultation was done on this legislation because it is hampering immigration operations in all countries, not just Japan.

You add this with having to face some dud(e) who has had a bad day and put him across the counter from you and the problems begin.

Actually, for some of the horror stories I have heard, believe it or not, three months on the green card renewal is not to bad (even though it should only take a week or two).

Congrats to you and your wife on getting your son on her koseki so he could at least get the J-passport, although he might never need it, you never know where just having it might help him out some day.

[IkemenTommy]

I don't know the source of your info and would be interested in hearing it, as I am sure other people on the board would, who I do know hold two passports.

Alright Greji. Start calling out the names. I am dying to know who is violating the law here.

[TFG]

Yet the Japanese government allowed that FUCKING murderer of children Alberto Fujimori to hole Japanese citizenship along with the pig's Peruvian citizen ship.

Hang the Bastard ASAP!

[CrankyBastard]

Both my offspring have Japanese and British passports.
My daughter was born before the Japanese law was changed and wasn't given Japanese citizenship at birth because I'm not Japanese, though her mother is.
We had to apply for my daughter to get Japanese citizenship even though she was born in Japan of a Japanese mother. I registered her birth at the British Embassy within the first month of her being born.
My son, on the other hand was automatically given Japanese citizenship from birth.
Both kids have dual Japanese-British citizenship, and two passports each.
To confuse the authorities they also have two sets of surnames, my wife's, for the Japanese side of things and mine, for the UK side.

[Mulboyne]

I've added the note that the Ministry of Education has accepted Nobel winner Nambu is not a "Japanese winner" to the Nobel thread. This thread is more specifically about dual nationality and it may be the "Nambu affair" has acted as a significant catalyst. When dual nationality has been discussed in Japan before, it has usually been framed as whether to allow foreign nationals to (officially) keep their foreign passports if they are granted citizenship. I noted in this thread how the issue came up in a TV discussion about voting rights:

Setsu Kobayashi says the nation is like a ship in which everyone sails. He says that if foreigners keep another nationality and Japan faces problems, they can flee the sinking ship. If they only have Japanese nationality, they'll make decisions in the interests of the "ship".

Now, however, the discussion is also being framed in terms of how dual citizenship affects people who are born Japanese. There's an acknowledgement that some may wish to adopt another nationality for a variety of reasons without losing citizenship rights in Japan. The Sankei article above notes that, unofficially, many do this.

[maraboutslim]

For what it's worth, my kids, 13 and 10, were both born in Japan to a Japanese mother and American father and got Japanese citizenship at birth. They got US citizenship and passports as well, with no problems at all. No one has ever questioned anything during travel. One issue is that airline staff check the names of passengers on tickets to their passports: my kids have different names on each passport and therefore have to present the u.s. passport that shows that name. So far, no problems though.

We had absolutely no trouble renewing Japanese passports for the kids at the consulate in San Francisco a few years ago.

On one particular trip to Japan, my son arrived with an expired Japanese passport and a US passport due to expire the following day! But this didn't cause any problem at all at Narita! His mom renewed his Japanese passport while there and the US embassy gave him temporary travel papers for his return and the actual US passport came through the mail once he returned to the US.

[Greji]

Alright Greji. Start calling out the names. I am dying to know who is violating the law here.

You, if you actually were able to accomplish all those carnal plans you outlined for whats-her-name, after you left the pub last night!