15% consumption tax

[canman]

So the gov't panel tasked with finding ways to pay for pensions and other social welfare costs, have decided the best way to pay for it all is to increase the consumption tax to 15% or more!
What a great idea, while they are at it, why don't they just tell people that once a week they will also come and punch them in the gut just for good measure. That is what this increase would be like.
I guess they felt Tepco wasn't destroying Japan fast enough, so implement a crippling tax to really finish off the country.

[cstaylor]

So the gov't panel tasked with finding ways to pay for pensions and other social welfare costs, have decided the best way to pay for it all is to increase the consumption tax to 15% or more!
What a great idea, while they are at it, why don't they just tell people that once a week they will also come and punch them in the gut just for good measure. That is what this increase would be like.
I guess they felt Tepco wasn't destroying Japan fast enough, so implement a crippling tax to really finish off the country.

Yeah, that's quite a jump from 5 to 15.

[Coligny]

Yeah, that's quite a jump from 5 to 15.

they were talking aboot 8% lately !? wtf...

[Yokohammer]

The latest I heard was 8% too. 15% would be a killer.
I'll keep a close watch on the news.

[Samurai_Jerk]

The "experts" have been talking about 15% as a necessity for more than 10 years. It's going to suck balls when they finally get arround to it. I guess another argument for opening the immigration floodgates is keeping taxes low.

[Coligny]

The latest I heard was 8% too. 15% would be a killer.
I'll keep a close watch on the news.

let say, by law 8%, with special reconstruction time limited rate of 10%.

people spending now, will know that it's for helping the country, and after it go back to a more resonable 8%.

and keep it 5% for food and books.

15% to pay for the Kan's soapland's adventures... nope... no way... I'd change car and buy some new underwear before the raise then stop buying anything.

[bolt_krank]

Using skill and knowledge to find the best solution, that's why the financial minister is in the position he is right ? right ?
That's why they're getting all that money right ? right ?

f**ked up politics seems a world-wide trend.

[gaijinpunch]

Did you get your news from National Enquirer?

There's a huge debate over even 8%, as the last thing Japan needs is people not spending money. No out-of-state interwebs shopping to dodge it, either. O_o

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

I'm all for 15% consumption tax, and even 40% on luxury items...under a few conditions, of course.
Among them:
* Drastic decreases in income tax rates, except significant increases in the tax rates of high-income earners of say 15 million yen plus annually
* Dramatic cuts in public spending, except in the area of auditing (and an end to permanent employment for public officials). Auditing would be conducted by private contractors on a tender basis.
* Review of all third sector organizations and drastic cuts wherever necessary
* Abolition of primary economic subsidies for incompetent industries
* Massive employment programs centering on "green" businesses
* Massive tax breaks for R&D, especially in the field of clean energy.
Japan's public sector debt is disgraceful and needs to be fixed.
* Massive tax breaks for employment and business creators

Japan's public sector debt is a fucking disgrace. The cuntry can't be a manufacturing superpower in the future, so put its brainpower to use and come up with decent, clean businesses (instead of stupid, childish robots). And tax the rich to the hilt if they don't give back anything to society (hence the hefty consumption tax on luxury items).

If all else fails, the cuntry should divert all taxes through clean, incorruptable people such as myself, the head of the Hosni Mubarak Memorial School of Economics.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I'm all for 15% consumption tax, and even 40% on luxury items...under a few conditions, of course.
Among them:
* Drastic decreases in income tax rates, except significant increases in the tax rates of high-income earners of say 15 million yen plus annually
* Dramatic cuts in public spending, except in the area of auditing (and an end to permanent employment for public officials). Auditing would be conducted by private contractors on a tender basis.
* Review of all third sector organizations and drastic cuts wherever necessary
* Abolition of primary economic subsidies for incompetent industries
* Massive employment programs centering on "green" businesses
* Massive tax breaks for R&D, especially in the field of clean energy.
Japan's public sector debt is disgraceful and needs to be fixed.
* Massive tax breaks for employment and business creators

Japan's public sector debt is a fucking disgrace. The cuntry can't be a manufacturing superpower in the future, so put its brainpower to use and come up with decent, clean businesses (instead of stupid, childish robots). And tax the rich to the hilt if they don't give back anything to society (hence the hefty consumption tax on luxury items).

If all else fails, the cuntry should divert all taxes through clean, incorruptable people such as myself, the head of the Hosni Mubarak Memorial School of Economics.

People making over 15 mil already pay a lot taxes here and the tax on low income earners is already pretty low for a developed nation. High consumption tax is regressive and hurts the poor more than income tax. It seems like your system is a great way to screw rich and poor alike.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

It seems like your system is a great way to screw rich and poor alike.

I don't dispute a thing you say...but I do argue that what I propose would get more people working, increase incomes and make the burden of a consumption tax more bearable while also forcing those capable of bearing a burden to do so.
The hard part is dragging the poor out of the poverty cycle in the first place and that's where my above proposal would probably prove to be a dismal failure.
It's hard to convince those in a position to implement such reforms to do so when doing so means they are also making things more difficult for themselves. Not everyone is so magnaminous, but I would be if given the chance (How's that for "holier than thou?")

[Greji]

P a great way to screw rich and poor alike.

I am perfectly in agreement. There is nothing wrong with screwing poor people. As a matter of fact, to show that I am equally concerned, I will try to screw some rich ones as well whenever I get a chance.

[rooboy]

let say, by law 8%, with special reconstruction time limited rate of 10%.

people spending now, will know that it's for helping the country, and after it go back to a more resonable 8%.

and keep it 5% for food and books.

15% to pay for the Kan's soapland's adventures... nope... no way... I'd change car and buy some new underwear before the raise then stop buying anything.

Trouble is, once govts bring in a tax it never goes down - it just goes UPUPUP. You need to look at the history of taxation in western countries in the 20th century. The fucking 'state of war and emergency' income taxes that were imposed on nations including the US and Oz were never repealed, they just get entrenched and more and more taxes were added.

I'm not anti tax but I'm anti abuse of tax paid by most people esp middle or lower middle earners cause they carry just about everybody and they're punished for working and saving.

In Oz it pays better to sit on your duff and collect social security cause by time all the benefits (phone subsidy, rent subsidy etc) add up you're making more than people who work to the point where they end up earning less than people on the dole or faking 'anxiety' etc so they can get a disability pension. Tax free payments incl extras put those people's money above those working at certain levels of income. It's just fucking wrong.

I'm also not feeling the fact that most of our countries' money reserves are structured around paying the interest on the debts to private banks that loan our govts money. This is a fucking rip off and fits into conspiracy to defraud. Lefties of a certain fucking kind praise tax paying but your money is really going to pay off private banks, no joke.

[Level3]

There are several big problems when you decide to solve your budget problems by basically saying "fuck the rich, let's tax them".

1. There aren't enough rich people. Even if you tax them at 100%, you can't cover the typical socialized First World annual budget without taxing the middle class, a lot.

2. When there's a shit economy, quite a few rich people can take a huge hit in income (no they don't starve or anything, but maybe have huge losses on the books) and then your Golden Goose suddenly comes up empty when you need the cash the most.

Funny how the politicians who want to fuck the rich have the strange tendency to always define "the rich" as anyone who makes a salary higher than themselves. And those who cheerlead them choose a level that is comfortably above whatever they are hoping to earn someday as a 55-year-old upper-middle-class civil servant, union boss, or public school teacher with a fat benefits package.
Convenient.

[Taro Toporific]

I just heard on CNN Japan, "[SIZE="3"]20%[/SIZE] sale tax."

Fine with me.
Fuck all you tax cheating engrish teachers as well as every-single-one of Japanese useless/vile farmers and dentists.

[Coligny]

I just heard on CNN Japan, "[SIZE="3"]20%[/SIZE] sale tax."

Fine with me.
Fuck all you tax cheating engrish teachers as well as every-single-one of Japanese useless/vile farmers and dentists.

hummm... I would not exactly put my dentist in the 'useless' category... plus the nurses are schwingtastic...

totally, completely, awesomely schwingtastic...

humm...

guys,

i'll be in my bunk... see you in 5 minutes...

[cstaylor]

i'll be in my bunk... see you in 5 minutes...

Betcha wish we had some grenades now, dontcha think?

[Taka-Okami]

I just heard on CNN Japan, "[SIZE="3"]20%[/SIZE] sale tax."

Fine with me.
Fuck all you tax cheating engrish teachers as well as every-single-one of Japanese useless/vile farmers and dentists.

I dont think 20% should be across the board. Staples like rice, etc should be exempt from the tax increase. 20% extra on everything will be a huge hit for the poor of Japan.

In Oz, milk, bread etc are exempt from GST (goods and services tax).

[Osakadave]

Trouble is, once govts bring in a tax it never goes down - it just goes UPUPUP. You need to look at the history of taxation in western countries in the 20th century.

Demonstrably false, as seen by the lowest tax rates in the US since 1955.The GOP cut taxes, subsidise businesses, and raise military spending, resulting in a net deficit and call that fiscal responsibility. And then have the gall to say that things that like health, education, and infrastructure are too expensive shouldn't be getting any government monies at all, never mind you how much government money they personally have taken.

[rooboy]

Demonstrably false, as seen by the lowest tax rates in the US since 1955.The GOP cut taxes, subsidise businesses, and raise military spending, resulting in a net deficit and call that fiscal responsibility. And then have the gall to say that things that like health, education, and infrastructure are too expensive shouldn't be getting any government monies at all, never mind you how much government money they personally have taken.

Yeah, really goddam "demonstrably false" when you're from the UK, Scandinavian countries, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and others.

And ya can also apply that to the US if you look at the issue in context - after WW2 thats when western countries developed the income tax system to catch far more people in the net instead of selected groups earning far, far more. That also had a lot to do with the long term aims of the elites around Woodrow Wilson some decades before and the aim of thesocial/financial elites since the beginning of modern systems in the 19th century.

The US Fed Reserve is not run by the govt, it's run by an elite group of banks and the social/financial elites who wanted the kind of income tax system the western world has now. The US Fed Reserve 'lends' money to the US Govt and US citizens pay the interest with their taxes. Same as in all countries where private banks 'loan' the govt money.

The truly rich never pay tax - they use taxpayers' money to fund their business interests, they get this through their financial systems, from their govt buddies, from all sorts of mechanisms set up to ensure this. They also 'donate' money so they don't have to pay tax, their foundations act as tax shelters.

To get back to the idea that taxes don't keep rising as a norm - the UK and Australia tell you different. NOt just income tax - everything from fucking property taxes, to car registration, to consumables etc etc. Not only the federal (national) govt - all layers of govt. Fed-state-local in Australia, nearly the same in the UK. They all grab more and more.

When you sell a house the govt takes a 10,000 dollar plus tax in Oz depending on how expensive the house is. Even if in the US income tax has gone down, you still pay taxes on just about everything like in every western nation. Many people are paying about 60 percent of their income on all these taxes, not just income tax.

[Samurai_Jerk]

hummm... I would not exactly put my dentist in the 'useless' category... plus the nurses are schwingtastic...

totally, completely, awesomely schwingtastic...

humm...

guys,

i'll be in my bunk... see you in 5 minutes...

Japanese dentists are mostly useless barring the ones who went to dental school overseas and don't accept national insurance. And I've never seen a good looking nurse in real life in Japan ever. I think they only exist in porn and the minds of dirtbag gaijin with extremely low standards.

[Iraira]

And I've never seen a good looking nurse in real life in Japan ever. I think they only exist in porn and the minds of dirtbag gaijin with extremely low standards.

There's one dental assistant in one of the Mori buildings in Toranomon (like I'm gonna tell you which one without some form of compensation), who fits this dirtbag gaijin's low standards...oh...is that a cavity I feel, better make an appointment. Drill, baby, drill!

[Samurai_Jerk]

There's one dental assistant in one of the Mori buildings in Toranomon (like I'm gonna tell you which one without some form of compensation), who fits this dirtbag gaijin's low standards...oh...is that a cavity I feel, better make an appointment. Drill, baby, drill!

I'm sure there are hot nurses out there but most of them are fat or old. The Uketsuke seem to be a lot better though.

[Sarutaro]

Ryo Dental Clinic in Ebisu isn't bad. And they speak Engrish!

[Doctor Stop]

I've met a few rather attractive dental assistants who needed cavities filled.

[TennoChinko]

I know there may be a few angry PhD economists who'll disagree with me and try to 'set me straight' but I believe that if the J-Govt raises the consumption tax again from 5% to whatever level they are talking about now, it'll have the same disastrous effect and kill any fledgling hopes of economic recovery as PM Hashimoto did in 1997 (3% to 5%).

[Osakadave]

:confused: Yeah, really goddam "demonstrably false" when you're from the UK, Scandinavian countries, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and others.

Yes, your claim is indeed demonstrably false when it's "tax rates never go down but always up", and I provide reliable evidence that tax rates actually have gone down.

Japanese dentists are mostly useless barring the ones who went to dental school overseas and don't accept national insurance. And I've never seen a good looking nurse in real life in Japan ever. I think they only exist in porn and the minds of dirtbag gaijin with extremely low standards.

My dentist back in Osaka was Canadian trained, took national health, and was very good. He also had a bunch of hotties working under him (a few quite literally, I'm positive). I had to shop around before I got to him though, and the J trained ones were horrors. "No, you don't need an anesthetic before I drill." was quickly followed by "you are too sensitive!"

My regular asthma doc had some ugos, but had a few cuties as well.

[Catoneinutica]

The Finance Ministry here, some factional in- fighting aside, desperately wants to hike the consumption tax. It's a cruel tax that disproportionately hits the poor and middle class (especially so in Japan where ther are no exceptions for food), but it provides a stable revenue stream. Previous attempts hike it up to ten percent seem to have gotten bogged down, but the tsunami has provided the MoF with a great "hook."

And if you think the hike would be "temporary," well, experience with US state taxes suggests they NEVER go down - always some excuse to extend them comes up.

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Back to the dentists, I was just thinking it was a timely topic really, because Fukushima's nuclear disaster is now going to ensure that Japanese women in the future are now much more likely to give birth to babies shaped like their teeth...(unless they abort them first).

[Greji]

Noriko works part time as a dental technician.....