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  • fuckedgaijin ‹ General ‹ F*cked News

Global warming: are you under water?

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Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Russell » Mon Nov 09, 2015 11:31 pm

Study says Tokyo, Osaka, other mega-cities will be swamped by surging sea levels, even at 2 degrees Celsius rise

Large swaths of Tokyo, Osaka, Shanghai, New York and other cities will slip under the waves even if an upcoming climate summit limits global warming to 2 degrees Celsius, scientists reported Sunday.

A spike in Earth’s temperature of 2 degrees Celsius (3.6 degrees Fahrenheit) would submerge land currently occupied by 280 million people, while an increase of 4 degrees Celsius — humanity’s current trajectory — would cover areas populated by more than 600 million people, the study said.

“Two degrees Celsius warming will pose a long-term, existential danger to many great coastal cities and regions,” said lead author Ben Strauss, vice president for sea level and climate impacts at Climate Central, a U.S.-based research group.

The study shows 34 million people in Japan live in future seascapes under the 4 C scenario, while even warming of only 2 C would leave 18 million peoples’ homes under water.

Tokyo and Osaka would be hit hard under both scenarios.

In the capital, 7.5 million people — 30 percent of Tokyo’s population — would be affected by the sea level rise under the 4 C scenario. A rise by 2 C would leave 4.2 million people’s homes underwater.

In Osaka, 6.2 million people — a staggering 38 percent of its population — would be affected under the 4 C rise. Under the 2 C scenario, the city would still see 4.2 million affected.

Sea level rises corresponding to these 2 C or 4 C scenarios could unfold in two hundred years, but would more likely happen over many centuries, perhaps as long as 2,000 years, according to the research, published by Climate Central.

Capping the rise in Earth’s temperatures to 2 C above pre-industrial levels is the core goal of the 195-nation U.N. climate summit in Paris that runs from Nov. 30 to Dec. 11.

The most effective way to slow global warming is to slash the output of the greenhouse gases that drive it.

But even if emissions reduction pledges — many of them conditioned on financial aid — submitted by 150 nations ahead of the Paris summit are fulfilled, it would still put us on the path for a 3 C world, the United Nations has warned.

Achieving the 2-degree goal remains a serious challenge.

Strauss and colleagues apply on a global scale the same methodology they used for a recent study that focused on temperature-linked sea level rise in the United States, published in the U.S. Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences.

That study concluded that both Miami and New Orleans are doomed to face crippling rises in sea levels.

It says the country hit hardest by sea level rise under the 4 C scenario is China.

Today, some 145 million people live in Chinese cities and coastal areas that would eventually become ocean were temperatures to climb that high.

Four of the 10 most devastated mega-cities would be Chinese: land occupied today by 44 million people in Shanghai, Tianjin, Hong Kong and Taizhou would be underwater.

India, Vietnam and Bangladesh do not fare much better. All told, Asia is home to 75 percent of the populations that today reside in zones that would no longer be classified as land in a climate-altered future.

Thirty-four million people in Japan, 25 million the United States, 20 million in the Philippines, 19 million Egypt and 16 million in Brazil are also in future 4 C seascapes.

While the 2 C scenario is also grim, limiting warming to that extent would spare China and other nations much misery, said Strauss.

“There is a world of difference between 2 C and 4 C, which threatens more than double the damage,” he said. “We have a very large choice ahead of us.”

The sea level rise corresponding to a 2 C jump would eventually be 4.7 meters, and for 4 C almost double that, the study found.

The projections are based on climate models taking into account the expansion of ocean water as it warms, the melting of glaciers, and the decay of both the Greenland and West Antarctic ice sheets.

Timing is harder to predict, Strauss said.

“It is easier to estimate how much ice will eventually melt from a certain amount of warming than how quickly it will melt,” he said.

Normally a study of this nature would be published by a peer-reviewed journal, as was the earlier research on the U.S.

In this case, however, Strauss felt that the new results should be taken into account ahead of the crucial climate summit in Paris.

“These findings seemed too relevant to COP21″ — the 21st Conference of the Parties, the official name for the U.N. climate meeting — “to risk that they be published afterwards,” he said.

AFP sent the study to four experts — including Jean-Pascal van Ypersele, until this year vice-president of the U.N.’s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change — for evaluation, and all of them described the work as “solid” and methodologically sound.

Strauss said his study shows that the stakes at the Paris negotiations are extremely high.

“Some historic meetings draw national boundaries,” he said. “This one will affect the global line between land and sea.”

An interactive map showing impacts at different temperature scenarios is available at choices.climatecentral.org.

Link

I am underwater, even at 2 degrees Celsius warming.

Funny thing is, 80% of the Netherlands is too, except the dikes and the dunes. Well, if those are above water, the rest of that country is too...
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Coligny » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:23 am

Getting rid of Bangladesh and Tokyo in the same disaster is a good deal in my book...

Just hope it's quick enough to trigger mass casualties instead of mass exodus...

Meanwhile you can bet these fucking dutch will just continue piling up cow dung higher and higher...
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Grumpy Gramps » Tue Nov 10, 2015 1:30 am

GPS is notoriously unreliable in determining altitude. My keitai says I am 8m above sea level one day and 20m next day. My dream of turning my garden into a nori farm in my afterlife might be in danger, if sea levels don't rise a little more.
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Salty » Tue Nov 10, 2015 4:33 am

Between 5 and 10 meters is massive. This should be good news for construction companies - who will level mountains to obtain materials for even higher sea walls and dikes.
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Coligny » Mon Apr 25, 2016 2:09 pm

oopsies....

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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Isle of View » Mon Apr 25, 2016 9:50 pm

Unlike the clueless whinging fuckwit in the video,
the big bad oil companies find and deliver the fuel that powers a modern civilization.
There is no excellent beauty, that hath not some strangeness in the proportion.
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Tsuru » Tue Apr 26, 2016 12:01 am

...and are subsidized to the tune of $10MM per minute, 24/7/365.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... s-says-imf

Perhaps it's time of kick the habit?
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Coligny » Tue Apr 26, 2016 1:07 am

Isle of View wrote:Unlike the clueless whinging fuckwit in the video,
the big bad oil companies find and deliver the fuel that powers a modern civilization.



Nukular and big oil... Two topics to get the psychopath out of the woodwork...

Hello Isle full of shit. Still king turd of lost island ?

Come again soon...
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Taro Toporific » Tue Apr 26, 2016 7:42 am

Coligny wrote:Hello Isle full of shit. Still king turd of lost island ?..


kumamon-poop.jpg

Bear dung helps Japanese cherry trees survive climate change
New Scientist 25 April 2016
Bears help Japanese cherry trees flee rising temperatures by giving their seeds a lift uphill inside their guts.
When the bears then do what they famously do in the woods, the cherry trees end up in a much cooler habitat, on average, than they started.
This is the first evidence that animals’ movements can help plants retreat uphill to cope with warming climates. Unlike mobile animals, most plants can only disperse as seeds, and ecologists have viewed this seed dispersal as spreading equally in all directions like ripples in a pond – not the most efficient way to find better conditions.
Bears dine on cherries and carry the seeds in their guts, which helps disperse them. But how far those seeds go and where they end up has been anyone’s guess.
So, Shoji Naoe and his colleagues at the Forestry and Forest Products Research Institute in Ibaraki, Japan, gathered cherry pits from bear faeces in the mountains west of Tokyo over a four-year period.
“We studied cherry trees because their seeds were easy to track in bear faeces,” says Naoe. “The cherry trees are at risk of population decrease from global warming, because they prefer cool habitats.”
More...
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby yanpa » Tue Apr 26, 2016 8:48 am

Does the Pope being Catholic help too?
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby dimwit » Tue Apr 26, 2016 9:34 am

Coligny wrote:
Isle of View wrote:Unlike the clueless whinging fuckwit in the video,
the big bad oil companies find and deliver the fuel that powers a modern civilization.



Nukular and big oil... Two topics to get the psychopath out of the woodwork...

Hello Isle full of shit. Still king turd of lost island ?

Come again soon...


From the biggest fucking troll on the board, that is a bit rich. I would rather listen to Isle of View, even though I believe him wrong in this case, than you turning every thread into shit about your hobbies or simply spamming.

Back to the video. What really pisses me off about the enviotards is how they damage the their own case visa via global warming. By having dorks with degrees in sociology and wimmin studies demostrating a lack of understand of science, math and in this case history they do no justice to a serious problem. Unshaven talks about big oil knowing about global warming for 60 years, which is wrong because atmospheric science was still in it infantancy in the late 50's early 60's. As I recall from middle school, even in the 1970's the biggest worry was about the 'new ice age' caused by SO2. A general consensus that global warming was occuring, was not reached until about 1980. Climate modelling really didn't develop much until the late 1960's with NOAA's Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory creating the first computerized models. Even into the early 80's the lack of computing power made the uncertainity in these models large. When I attended climatology seminars in the early 1980's the most striking feature was the degree of scepticism about the accuracy of the models due to a lack of understanding of all the feedbacks.

Charitablity assuming that unshaven might be basing the idea that big oil knew about the increasing levels of CO2 in the atmosphere which were first monitored in 1958 at the Mauna Loa Observatory, the first real trend only could be gathered by the mid 1960's. 2016-1966= 50 years, but I suspect unshaven is not good with figures.
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Coligny » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:52 am

Ok, the guy has beard, his arguments are invalid... we got you loud and clear...
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Coligny » Tue Apr 26, 2016 11:01 am

also...

logo_ex.png


2560bnr_lutecia.jpg


2560bnr_captur_2.jpg
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Isle of View » Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:04 pm

Coligny wrote:
Isle of View wrote:Unlike the clueless whinging fuckwit in the video,
the big bad oil companies find and deliver the fuel that powers a modern civilization.



Nukular and big oil... Two topics to get the psychopath out of the woodwork...

Hello Isle full of shit. Still king turd of lost island ?



Frog off.
Last edited by Isle of View on Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Isle of View » Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:15 pm

Tsuru wrote:...and are subsidized to the tune of $10MM per minute, 24/7/365.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/ ... s-says-imf

Perhaps it's time of kick the habit?


Nope.

Oil is not a "habit", it is the lifeblood of any modern economy.
No oil, nat gas, and coal, then we sit in the dark, many freezing or starving to death ,
worse off than cavemen as they knew how to deal with such an environment.
Solar and wind cannot even come close to providing the required amount of energy ( ~4% in the USA).

The price of oil is at historic lows, back down to below pre 1970's oil crisis prices in inflation corrected dollars.

Who is going bust? Not oil companies, and not due to "subsidies",
but solar and wind power companies which, unlike oil companies, are completely incapable of surviving without massive taxpayer subsidies.
Last edited by Isle of View on Fri Apr 29, 2016 12:09 am, edited 5 times in total.
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Isle of View » Wed Apr 27, 2016 7:17 pm

dimwit wrote:
Coligny wrote:
Isle of View wrote:Unlike the clueless whinging fuckwit in the video,
the big bad oil companies find and deliver the fuel that powers a modern civilization.



Nukular and big oil... Two topics to get the psychopath out of the woodwork...

Hello Isle full of shit. Still king turd of lost island ?

Come again soon...


From the biggest fucking troll on the board, that is a bit rich. I would rather listen to Isle of View, even though I believe him wrong in this case, than you turning every thread into shit about your hobbies or simply spamming.

Back to the video. What really pisses me off about the enviotards is how they damage the their own case visa via global warming. By having dorks with degrees in sociology and wimmin studies demostrating a lack of understand of science, math and in this case history they do no justice to a serious problem. Unshaven talks about big oil knowing about global warming for 60 years, which is wrong because atmospheric science was still in it infantancy in the late 50's early 60's. As I recall from middle school, even in the 1970's the biggest worry was about the 'new ice age' caused by SO2. A general consensus that global warming was occuring, was not reached until about 1980. Climate modelling really didn't develop much until the late 1960's with NOAA's Geophysical Fluid Dynamics Laboratory creating the first computerized models. Even into the early 80's the lack of computing power made the uncertainity in these models large. When I attended climatology seminars in the early 1980's the most striking feature was the degree of scepticism about the accuracy of the models due to a lack of understanding of all the feedbacks.

Charitablity assuming that unshaven might be basing the idea that big oil knew about the increasing levels of CO2 in the atmosphere which were first monitored in 1958 at the Mauna Loa Observatory, the first real trend only could be gathered by the mid 1960's. 2016-1966= 50 years, but I suspect unshaven is not good with figures.


Well, unlike the unshaven envirotard, here is someone who knows of what he speaks



For those interested in the details of CO2 in the atmosphere:



or

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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Coligny » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:33 pm

Yes I know.

Radiations are good for the health and car exhausts are good for the environment.

you guys are sceptic tanks of common sense and scientific knowledge...
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby legion » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:42 pm

Isle of View wrote:Unlike the clueless whinging fuckwit in the video,
the big bad oil companies find and deliver the fuel that powers a modern civilization.


But he has a jacket which time traveled from the 1980s so all is cool
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Isle of View » Wed Apr 27, 2016 8:55 pm

Coligny wrote:Yes I know.


No, actually you don't.

You don't even know that you don't know.

Coligny wrote:Radiations are good for the health and car exhausts are good for the environment.


Numeracy counts for all amounts.

Coligny wrote:you guys are sceptic tanks of common sense and scientific knowledge...


Forgotten more of both than you'll ever know.
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby kagemusha » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:18 pm

Is there any practical reason for Japan not taking full advantage of its location and going full geothermal?
Even if not full, 0.1% of the total energy production is a joke. Clean, cheap and endless...what the fuck?
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Coligny » Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:57 pm

kagemusha wrote:Is there any practical reason for Japan not taking full advantage of its location and going full geothermal?
Even if not full, 0.1% of the total energy production is a joke. Clean, cheap and endless...what the fuck?


onsen do that... sort of...
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Russell » Wed Apr 27, 2016 11:11 pm

Coligny wrote:
kagemusha wrote:Is there any practical reason for Japan not taking full advantage of its location and going full geothermal?
Even if not full, 0.1% of the total energy production is a joke. Clean, cheap and endless...what the fuck?


onsen do that... sort of...

Onsen owners are against using geothermal energy for daily use, because they fear their onsens run out of hot water...
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Tsuru » Thu Apr 28, 2016 3:34 am

Ah yes, the mighty powerful voting block of onsen owners. This idea that Japan might run out of hotspring water when geothermal is implemented sounds exactly like the sort of bullshit usually propagated by conservative shit talking heads who want to protect their business interests.

It's actually a really good question. Iceland has set itself a clear objective in becoming 100% independent of fossil fuel, mostly by going all-in on geothermal. And Iceland's hot spring resorts and geysers haven't stopped attracting visitors yet... the point being that geothermal energy is infinite as far as humanity is concerned, and the depths where geothermal plants get their heat from won't affect the hot springs near the surface that came to be naturally, which is what traditional onsens are based on. Surely if Japan really wanted to they could get a significant amount of baseline energy from geothermal sources easily. Market it as a ploy to offset nuclear to gain traction with the concerned public, whatever.
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby wagyl » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:25 am

Everybody refers to Iceland, and it is a recognised example of high usage of geothermally sourced power, but no one mentions that the Philippines obtains over a quarter of its electricity from geothermal sources. It deserves recognition.

The issue with onsens drying up relates to the fact that together with the right to draw on an onsen, is the right guaranteeing that it will not be adversely affected by the rights of others who draw on it. In a practical sense, you can prevent someone boring a hole nextdoor to yours. It is analogous to the situation in urban areas of rights to sunlight: You can not build a massive building without compensating those who you put in shade. Similarly, you cannot extract heat from the earth without compensating those who are adversely affected by that.

Geothermal power plants do exist in certain parts of Japan, in 2011 providing an embarrassingly small 0.2% of total power needs. I hasten to add that the power output of those plants was equal to 93% of the output of all the geothermal power plants in Iceland, so no slouch in terms of output from geothermal, just remember that Japan produces and consumes more than 100 times the power output of Iceland, even though Iceland uses its plentiful renewable hydro and geothermal power for aluminium smelting.

When you consider that Japan obtains about 19% of its power production from hydroelectric sources, and that the rights to the use of that water had to be negotiated with many rightsholders downstream, the geothermal rights issue is not insurmountable. A lot of it has to do with the fact that unlike the quantifiable impact of keeping flowing water behind a dam and releasing it at times that differ from the natural flow, the actual impact of the geothermal plants is less well understood. The amount of any compensation to other rightsholders is not so easily quantified. This makes it harder to do a costs estimate for the plant, and to make the decision as to whether it will be economically viable. As the costs -- both monetary and environmental -- of burning prehistoric carbon stores increase, those hard decisions might become just that little bit easier.
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby kagemusha » Thu Apr 28, 2016 4:32 pm

wagyl wrote:Everybody refers to Iceland, and it is a recognised example of high usage of geothermally sourced power, but no one mentions that the Philippines obtains over a quarter of its electricity from geothermal sources. It deserves recognition.

The issue with onsens drying up relates to the fact that together with the right to draw on an onsen, is the right guaranteeing that it will not be adversely affected by the rights of others who draw on it. In a practical sense, you can prevent someone boring a hole nextdoor to yours. It is analogous to the situation in urban areas of rights to sunlight: You can not build a massive building without compensating those who you put in shade. Similarly, you cannot extract heat from the earth without compensating those who are adversely affected by that.

Geothermal power plants do exist in certain parts of Japan, in 2011 providing an embarrassingly small 0.2% of total power needs. I hasten to add that the power output of those plants was equal to 93% of the output of all the geothermal power plants in Iceland, so no slouch in terms of output from geothermal, just remember that Japan produces and consumes more than 100 times the power output of Iceland, even though Iceland uses its plentiful renewable hydro and geothermal power for aluminium smelting.

When you consider that Japan obtains about 19% of its power production from hydroelectric sources, and that the rights to the use of that water had to be negotiated with many rightsholders downstream, the geothermal rights issue is not insurmountable. A lot of it has to do with the fact that unlike the quantifiable impact of keeping flowing water behind a dam and releasing it at times that differ from the natural flow, the actual impact of the geothermal plants is less well understood. The amount of any compensation to other rightsholders is not so easily quantified. This makes it harder to do a costs estimate for the plant, and to make the decision as to whether it will be economically viable. As the costs -- both monetary and environmental -- of burning prehistoric carbon stores increase, those hard decisions might become just that little bit easier.


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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby dimwit » Thu Apr 28, 2016 9:33 pm

Japanese Priests Collected Almost Seven Centuries of Climate Data

Historic records from "citizen scientists" in Japan and Finland give researchers centuries of data on ice conditions



Almost every winter, after Lake Suwa in the Japanese Alps freezes, the male Shinto god Takeminakata crosses the ice to visit the female god Yasakatome at her shrine, causing a ridge known as the omiwatari to form. At least, that’s what the priests living on the shores of the lake believed. When the water froze, they would conduct a purification ritual and celebration in honor of the ridge, using its direction and starting location to forecast the harvest and rainfall for the coming year.

The priests kept records of the event beginning in 1443, inadvertently creating a massive data set of climate conditions. Now Sapna Sharma, a York University biologist, and John J. Magnuson, a University of Wisconsin limnologist, paired that data with records of the spring ice breakup of Finland's Torne River to understand the effects of climate change on inland waters.



http://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-new ... 29/?no-ist
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby Mike Oxlong » Fri Apr 29, 2016 8:31 pm

kagemusha wrote:
wagyl wrote:Everybody refers to Iceland, and it is a recognised example of high usage of geothermally sourced power, but no one mentions that the Philippines obtains over a quarter of its electricity from geothermal sources. It deserves recognition.

The issue with onsens drying up relates to the fact that together with the right to draw on an onsen, is the right guaranteeing that it will not be adversely affected by the rights of others who draw on it. In a practical sense, you can prevent someone boring a hole nextdoor to yours. It is analogous to the situation in urban areas of rights to sunlight: You can not build a massive building without compensating those who you put in shade. Similarly, you cannot extract heat from the earth without compensating those who are adversely affected by that.

Geothermal power plants do exist in certain parts of Japan, in 2011 providing an embarrassingly small 0.2% of total power needs. I hasten to add that the power output of those plants was equal to 93% of the output of all the geothermal power plants in Iceland, so no slouch in terms of output from geothermal, just remember that Japan produces and consumes more than 100 times the power output of Iceland, even though Iceland uses its plentiful renewable hydro and geothermal power for aluminium smelting.

When you consider that Japan obtains about 19% of its power production from hydroelectric sources, and that the rights to the use of that water had to be negotiated with many rightsholders downstream, the geothermal rights issue is not insurmountable. A lot of it has to do with the fact that unlike the quantifiable impact of keeping flowing water behind a dam and releasing it at times that differ from the natural flow, the actual impact of the geothermal plants is less well understood. The amount of any compensation to other rightsholders is not so easily quantified. This makes it harder to do a costs estimate for the plant, and to make the decision as to whether it will be economically viable. As the costs -- both monetary and environmental -- of burning prehistoric carbon stores increase, those hard decisions might become just that little bit easier.


Thanks

Pessimistic that those hard decisions will be made, for reasons wuchan expressed pretty well in the value of the yen topic.
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby jingai » Sun May 01, 2016 3:22 pm

I think the other issue with geothermal is that sources are in government protected parkland which wasn't permissible to use for energy until recently.
http://www.japanfs.org/en/news/archives ... 35043.html

A more recent barrier as that starting with Kyushu (and then copied by other utilities other than TEPCO) the utilities have been choking off competition for their offline nuclear plants by denying renewable energy access to the grid. Unless this geothermal is utility owned, it has the same problem. We'll see if the moves towards deregulation of the electric utility sector (breaking up transmission and generation) also results in fairer grid access.
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby wagyl » Sun May 01, 2016 3:38 pm

I don't know that I would say that it wasn't possible to build a geothermal plant in a national park until recently. Of the two I know about, both are in national parks: Matsukawa, the first constructed in Japan in operation since 1966, and Sumikawa, since 1995. You are welcome to click through the links and check on the others http://grsj.gr.jp/en/geothermalinJ/Res& ... in121.html

Edit: I did some clicking of links myself. I would say half are in national parks. My favourite geothermal power plant has to be Yanaizu-Nishiyama, because
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Re: Global warming: are you under water?

Postby TennoChinko » Sun May 01, 2016 3:55 pm

kagemusha wrote:Is there any practical reason for Japan not taking full advantage of its location and going full geothermal?
Even if not full, 0.1% of the total energy production is a joke. Clean, cheap and endless...what the fuck?


I have no idea whether the following factors into why Japan might not be enthusiastic about developing geothermal energy sources (my guess is that the political preference enjoyed by the nuclear power industry is the main reason) but it actually could be a valid concern:

DOES GEOTHERMAL POWER CAUSE EARTHQUAKES?
A NEW ENERGY METHOD COULD TRIGGER A RISKY SIDE EFFECT

http://www.popsci.com/science/article/2 ... arthquakes

How Does Geothermal Drilling Trigger Earthquakes?
People living near a geothermal drilling project in fault-riddled northern California are worried about more earthquakes after a similar project triggered a major jolt in Switzerland. A seismologist explains the forces at work

http://www.scientificamerican.com/artic ... rthquakes/

Earthquake Concerns Shake Geothermal Energy Projects
http://www.livescience.com/9777-earthqu ... jects.html
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