Environmentalists pursue Japan's whalers

[kurogane]

Now, if those environmentalists are really smart they paint the text "研究" on the sides of their ships, and claim that their actions are just a psychological experiment to test the Japanese population for sensitivity to hypocrisy.

That would be clever and inject some much needed humour into the tired sanctimony on both sides.

An honest question, though: where's the hypocrisy? My position again: the ICJ ruled, the Japanese accepted the ruling, read the fine print (surprise surprise) and retooled their research hunt to abide by the conditions. It was a legal decision, and theirs was a legal response, indeed, a very parsed legalistic one, but they participated in the process in good faith and used the system and the law to their own ends. The idea that the ICJ ruling was a moral mandate and the Jpn should abide by the spirit of the ruling is typical childish White Warrior blather, and a much more convenient misreading of the ruling and the case itself, motivated by sanctimony and the moral hypocrisy of cultural imperialism. Aloha Snackbar. Whale's the special on Tuesdays.

[Russell]

Now, if those environmentalists are really smart they paint the text "研究" on the sides of their ships, and claim that their actions are just a psychological experiment to test the Japanese population for sensitivity to hypocrisy.

That would be clever and inject some much needed humour into the tired sanctimony on both sides.

An honest question, though: where's the hypocrisy? My position again: the ICJ ruled, the Japanese accepted the ruling, read the fine print (surprise surprise) and retooled their research hunt to abide by the conditions. It was a legal decision, and theirs was a legal response, indeed, a very parsed legalistic one, but they participated in the process in good faith and used the system and the law to their own ends. The idea that the ICJ ruling was a moral mandate and the Jpn should abide by the spirit of the ruling is typical childish White Warrior blather, and a much more convenient misreading of the ruling and the case itself, motivated by sanctimony and the moral hypocrisy of cultural imperialism. Aloha Snackbar. Whale's the special on Tuesdays.

The hypocrisy is the claim that it's for scientific research.

Now I think of it, me too would like to do lethal research on those animals. I bet I can get a grant somewhere?

[wagyl]

An honest answer. Hypocracy. And official at that.

6 October 2015

I have the honour, by direction of the Minister for Foreign Affairs, to declare on behalf of the Government of Japan that, in conformity with paragraph 2 of Article 36 of the Statute of the International Court of Justice, Japan recognizes as compulsory ipso facto and without special agreement, in relation to any other State accepting the same obligation and on condition of reciprocity, the jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice, over all disputes arising on and after 15 September 1958 with regard to situations or facts subsequent to the same date and being not settled by other means of peaceful settlement.

This declaration does not apply to:

(1) any dispute which the parties thereto have agreed or shall agree to refer for final and binding decision to arbitration or judicial settlement;

(2) any dispute in respect of which any other party to the dispute has accepted the compulsory jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice only in relation to or for the purpose of the dispute; or where the acceptance of the Court's compulsory jurisdiction on behalf of any other party to the dispute was deposited or notified less than twelve months prior to the filing of the application bringing the dispute before the Court;

(3) any dispute arising out of, concerning, or relating to research on, or conservation, management or exploitation of, living resources of the sea.

The Government of Japan reserves the right at any time, by means of a written notification addressed to the Secretary-General of the United Nations, and with effect as from the moment of such notification, either to amend or terminate the present declaration.

(Signed)
Motohide Yoshikawa
Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary
Permanent Representative of Japan to the United Nations

We previously had no objection to the jurisdiction of the court, but we have now decided to object. It is just a mere coincidence that this objection is lodged after an adverse result which we have not been able to find another way around. Anybody looking at that list of categories excluding jurisdiction 1, 2 and 3 will surely see that they are of similar nature and number three is not tailored to address any current issue. We make this declaration unilaterally, and reserve the right to change back again if it suits our needs in the future.

Lotsa Love

Nippon


I do not think that there was a retooling of the research parameters sufficient to overcome the previous objections found by the International Court of Justice, but if you have something to indicate that I am mistaken, Kurogane, I am all ears.

[matsuki]

Which is silly because Japanese officials were claiming they would abide by the ICJ ruling.

[kurogane]

The hypocrisy is the claim that it's for scientific research.

Now I think of it, me too would like to do lethal research on those animals. I bet I can get a grant somewhere?

Right, got it. Hard to disagree, even though I rate hypocrisy up there with jaywalking and farting in a bus or train. Given that it's a legal issue it doesn't seem outrageous that a party might exploit available loopholes, and the ICJ ruled that loophole exists. Anyways, clear and present, roger, thanks.

An honest answer. Hypocracy. And official at that.

6 October 2015

(3) any dispute arising out of, concerning, or relating to research on, or conservation, management or exploitation of, living resources of the sea.
Lotsa Love
Nippon

I do not think that there was a retooling of the research parameters sufficient to overcome the previous objections found by the International Court of Justice, but if you have something to indicate that I am mistaken, Kurogane, I am all ears.

To start from the end there, no I doubt there was, but it's a valid legal maneuver to claim it's WhaleKill2.0 and they did at one point claim they were abiding by the ICJ decision by doing so, which at least indicates cooperation and participation, moreso then the shrill calls for them to do as they've been told in spite of the ambiguity of the ICJ decision. That October declaration is quite something (I missed it). One might almost think they had hired British or American retired diplomats or officials to craft it, that 3rd clause is so patently self-serving

It's a shame they went that way, because now they don't just look pissy to myopic bigots that deliberately misrepresent the ICJ ruling but are actally admitting they are taking their ball and going to play by their own rules. All they needed to do was claim the New Scientific Research Hunt was a significant improvement in line with the ruling and keep hammering away at that. That would have given them years of yummy meat nobody wants before the ICJ got up to speed for a second case. This current cabinet really does have an incredible talent for shooting itself in the foot to please its spleen. Fuck I hate Neo-cons.
Thanks for that, btw.

Matsuki,
Yes, exactly, and to an extent they were: it was ruled it wasn't scientific so they waved a magic wand and made it so. That new declaration Wagyl posted is self-defeating. If that's sort of what you were getting at..........

[matsuki]

Like a shifty scam shop that closes it's doors to violations...then opens up the next day with a new name as a "new company."

Legality aside...if you come out and say you intend to abide by a court's ruling, then start legal loop-holing your way out of an unfavorable ruling, in the court of public opinion, you're still an asshole. As I tried to say before, it also diminishes the basis of the ICJ when (even non-binding) rulings can be (politely) told to fuck off. (which is of concern to more people than just save the whales hippies)

[wagyl]

Hey, look on the bright side. At least Japan can't complain if any other country wants to encroach on its domestic fisheries.

You do have to start to wonder how the whaling industry got to be so powerful that Japan is prepared to either look like a psychopath in denying International Court of Justice jurisdiction, or to discard any way of peaceably defending its domestic fisheries. It loses money hand over fist, and employs only a flyspot on the national employment statistics. I do not understand it, other than being an emotional response to outside pressure. I really can't see it ending well, for the whales or for Japan.

[Mike Oxlong]

Hey, look on the bright side. At least Japan can't complain if any other country wants to encroach on its domestic fisheries.

You do have to start to wonder how the whaling industry got to be so powerful that Japan is prepared to either look like a psychopath in denying International Court of Justice jurisdiction, or to discard any way of peaceably defending its domestic fisheries. It loses money hand over fist, and employs only a flyspot on the national employment statistics. I do not understand it, other than being an emotional response to outside pressure. I really can't see it ending well, for the whales or for Japan.

I think Yokohammer explained it very well in this post, and has reiterated his point several times since. No politician is ever going to be the one to suggest or start cutting their own kind's golden parachutes.

[kurogane]

Legality aside...if you come out and say you intend to abide by a court's ruling, then start legal loop-holing your way out of an unfavorable ruling, in the court of public opinion, you're still an asshole.

I don't disagree in sentiment, and that is a very good point about the disturbing precedent it sets, but exploiting loopholes is a tried and true legal maneuver of some heritage: the scientific research claim has always been just that, which the ICJ did not dispute. The sacking of Iraq was based on the implied authority of a UN Security Council Resolution, after all, even though that rationale was strongly refuted before and since. It certainly makes them look bad, but frankly, why should they care? The whale huggers would still be soiling their diapers even if the ICJ ruling had gone Japan's way. The only way Japan can please the vocal middling class minority is by doing what Mighty Uptighty Whitey says, and they know that. The Jpn can't win that fight even if they do stop: the Panda Huggers are Inquisitionists and they will not forgive, forget or forego their right to the ecstasy of sanctimony. We are talking about people that can barely avoid mentioning a war that ended 70 years ago when talking about a current and completely unrelated issue. They are vindicative scum and deserved to be spat on not spurred on. Anybody that thinks that a few fancy fat fish matter more than good diplomatic relations with a peaceful neighbour should be used as fish food.

I think this latest maneuver Wagyl linked is actually more dangerous because it amounts to a declaration of intent to ignore rulings as convenient (AKA the Anglo-American model), whereas the new and improved whale hunt is a direct response to the initial ICJ ruling, whether it be hypocritical or even grossly disingenuous (which it probably is as Wags noted).

[wagyl]

Hey, look on the bright side. At least Japan can't complain if any other country wants to encroach on its domestic fisheries.

You do have to start to wonder how the whaling industry got to be so powerful that Japan is prepared to either look like a psychopath in denying International Court of Justice jurisdiction, or to discard any way of peaceably defending its domestic fisheries. It loses money hand over fist, and employs only a flyspot on the national employment statistics. I do not understand it, other than being an emotional response to outside pressure. I really can't see it ending well, for the whales or for Japan.

I think Yokohammer explained it very well in this post, and has reiterated his point several times since. No politician is ever going to be the one to suggest or start cutting their own kind's golden parachutes.

Oh I can understand the bureaucrats maintaining a cushy status quo. However, this goes beyond that: it is a new action to make that declaration about recognition of jurisdiction of the International Court of Justice, an action which has repercussions in the fishing industry generally and also in the perception of Japan's Foreign Affairs stance. I would hope that the fishing industry and Foreign Affairs were consulted about it and given an opportunity to put their own views forward, which is why I am surprised that the whaling industry seems to hold such strong trump cards.

[kurogane]

Hey, look on the bright side. At least Japan can't complain if any other country wants to encroach on its domestic fisheries.

A fine lawyer will make you, think I, mmmmmm.

Pretty sure the right of territorial integrity would trump Clause 3 anyways, but it could actually be a very clever sleeper clause to defend Japanese encroachment on others' fisheries, which they already do quite regularly back in my part.

I do not understand it, other than being an emotional response to outside pressure.

I don't think it is anything else anymore, and hasn't been for some time, as is the dolphin hunt. The sort of honest normal people that SamJerk drinks with seem to admit as much. It's a straight FU, just like SDH wrote in response to YokoH's post linked above by MikeOx. Half the people like that I talk to even openly admit nobody even wants the crap no more.

I really can't see it ending well, for the whales or for Japan.

As for ending badly for Japan, it will certainly tarnish it's image for its petulant behaviour at the institutional level, but I could see a huge backlash of support coming from corners that aren't being coached or cowed by the Troglowhite lobby. There are a lot of not White / not Anglo countries getting very tired of this new International Anglo Inquisition, especially given the perception that the institutions themselves are a rigged game and the comfy chairs not as inviting as they look.

The whales will be fine, as a group. There are shitloads of minke whales. Fucking shameful to kill so petulantly, but if whales are so damn smart why don't they hide? Most Canadians support hunting defenceless woodland creatures even though we have really nice supermarkets and meat isn't expensive. The only thing I would hunt would be cheaper cheese, but I don't think I would want the kind that grows wild.

[Samurai_Jerk]

If the goal is to create amakudari jobs for worthless dinosaurs, why not just fund non-lethal bullshit whale research?

[wagyl]

Pretty sure the right of territorial integrity would trump Clause 3 anyways.

Where do you complain about those foreign Harp Seal pup clubbers in Tokyo Bay if not at the International Court of Justice?

[Mike Oxlong]

If the goal is to create amakudari jobs for worthless dinosaurs, why not just fund non-lethal bullshit whale research?

The quest to discover pluripotent cells hiding deep within those delicious, delicious whales - those magnificent fish hold the key to the stimulus-triggered acquisition of pluripotency. If they could just find how those whales stimulate their own cells to have unlimited biological potential, they could save...some chick destined for a second career in pr0n.

[kurogane]

If the goal is to create amakudari jobs for worthless dinosaurs, why not just fund non-lethal bullshit whale research?

I don't discount that factor, even as an unconscious one, but it does have that Conspiracy! ring to it when its used as a prime conscious motivation. That sort of consipratorial psychologising is a variety of thinking for those who aren't very good at it. People don't need to be that clever and conspiratorial to orchestrate such a glorious fuckfest: institutional bias and the emotional petulance Wagyl mentioned will do that just fine. The fact that those 2 combine to ensure a continued place at the trough for the front line warriors is merely a reward for their courageous wisdumb and dedication to The Cause

We have been doing this for a while, you fuckers killed all the whales anyways, we eat the fat fucks, international scientific bodies appreciate the data our research provides (and our generous funding), so fuck off and mind your own business

Just because we don't get it doesn't mean it isn't a visceral and sincere position. To assume the whale industry and lobby is like a bunch of Muttleys snickering behind closed doors isn't just deep thinking for stupid people. It's also racist and counterproductive. If one wanted to stretch the limits of belief, one could easily argue that it would be like trying to get Westerners to stop eating beef because people that don't eat beef think we shouldn't. Plus cattle are far more environmentally destructive than whale hunting could ever hope to be ever again.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Well it was just a modest proposal.

[kurogane]

Well it was just a modest proposal.

And it reached the cockles of my heart swift and sure, baby. My rant wasn't directed at you, BTW, but simpletons trying to punch above their flyweight mental power get my goat. The racism and hatred is quite remarkable given how trivial an issue it is, which suggests it's not just about slaughtering the pandas of the sea.

[matsuki]

it's not just about slaughtering the pandas of the sea.

I see it as quite the opposite....the armchair whale hippy ranks are probably filled with true believers and then you have the "activists" just getting rich off the whole "effort." I'm not so sure the average Oubei person that doesn't agree with Japan's actions here is basing their stance in racial/foreign hatred though,

On the other side, you have what Wags pointed out, this massive government funded bullshit effort "for science" that produces neither science nor meat that's in demand. While I'll grant many of the youngins here aren't exactly in favor of the continued whaling or just don't give a fuck, and you've got the old fuckers with vested interests (greed is universal) ...but I think the emotional response of the middle aged and above is a cluster fuck of nationalism, and insecurity, mostly due to ignorance of what's going on.

[kurogane]

I'm not so sure the average Oubei person that doesn't agree with Japan's actions here is basing their stance in racial/foreign hatred though,.......

Most Westerners are bigoted about the Japanese in most ways, but PC culture and such means they tend to express only their positive bigotries (Sushi, electronics, etc). The real problem is they don't have to be too too nice about the whale thing because the Japanese aren't poor little brown people; indeed, as any proper Western (Cdn?) sophisticate knows "Them there Japakneez is all rich". To most people Back There the Japanese are like a mythical race of equally likeable/hateable Super Aliens. I agree they aren't basing their stance on it knowingly, but I will happily argue their stance is based in it, or at least mired in it unbeknownst to themselves. We aren't talking about the intellectual gold standard here, and people willing to express strong views on trivial matters like animal rights (sic) usually aren't very smart anyways. As an added bonus, even a nicer version of the above sends them into a frothing explosion of egalitarian outrage, which is the main objective, after all. Life has few pleasures so simple and sweet as exposing a preening self-styled cosmopolitan sophisticate as a provincial bigot. It's a hobby, but I like to think it's also a talent I have

...but I think the emotional response of the middle aged and above is a cluster fuck of nationalism, and insecurity, mostly due to ignorance of what's going on.

Yes to that first part, but people I talk to know about the economic waste part and often approve of it just to prove a point. I often raise that one as possibly the most strategically useful objection to the killing pools (they do hate taxes something special, after all) but more than a few will argue it is an acceptable cost, so I am not sure ignorance applies, unless we argue that most nationalist chauvinist rubbish is ignorance. Which is a pretty good argument in myhomo. It would be nice to see the internal Jpn opposition lobby make more effective use of the financial/economic argument. That might galvanise even the apathetic young 'uns. From what I have seen there's a lot of squishy assed moral benevolence crap from converted hug-meisters named Yoko Kaladinian or the like. I admire their efforts, but they're shooting blanks, and they come across as stupid romantics. I predict that any Jpn initiated halt to the slaughter will hinge on the cost of it.

[matsuki]

I dunno Kuro, the NA love for anime, bukkake and sushi seems to paint a more rosey pic of Japanese "image" for people under 40 but I guess the previous gens do show some ugliness every once in awhile with the all too unoriginal "that's for pearl harbor!" or "we should have dropped more nukes." Still, while I can't speak but from what I've heard from those around me, the feeling I get from most is "disappointed" rather than some sort of hate or whatever. Then again, none of those people are whale hippies.

As to the ignorance I spoke of, the tax/financial/surplus aspects of this mess are what I was referring to and yeah, that should be the main point of discussion locally.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Hackers say crashed Japan PM's website to protest whale hunt

A hacking group said Thursday it has crashed Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's official website to protest Japan's plans to hunt whales.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga told reporters that one of Abe's websites became inaccessible early Thursday and police were investigating. The site was restored by the evening.

Suga acknowledged that the Anonymous hacker group has posted a Twitter message claiming responsibility, but added authorities had not singled out the group as a prime suspect.

[Russell]

Hackers say crashed Japan PM's website to protest whale hunt

A hacking group said Thursday it has crashed Prime Minister Shinzo Abe's official website to protest Japan's plans to hunt whales.

Chief Cabinet Secretary Yoshihide Suga told reporters that one of Abe's websites became inaccessible early Thursday and police were investigating. The site was restored by the evening.

Suga acknowledged that the Anonymous hacker group has posted a Twitter message claiming responsibility, but added authorities had not singled out the group as a prime suspect.

Throwing an analog with drones, I suspect that they now want to abolish the Internet in Japan.

Well, they wouldn't be the first one...

[Samurai_Jerk]

Four Nations Tell Japan and Sea Shepherd to Chill Out on the High Seas as Whale Hunt Begins

The governments of four countries—Australia, the Netherlands, New Zealand, and the United States—have fired a verbal warning shot across the bows of Japanese whaling vessels and Sea Shepherd Conservation Society ships that protest whale hunting on the high seas.

The four governments this week issued a joint statement saying they oppose commercial whaling, but also “condemn any actions at sea that may cause injury, loss of human life or damage to property or the marine environment during Southern Ocean whaling operations in 2016.”

Sea Shepherd—which sends ships to the Southern Ocean to monitor and often harass Japanese whaling vessels—was not mentioned by name. But the militant environmental group was clearly a target of the warning.

[wagyl]

Ric O’Barry, opponent of Japanese dolphin hunt, detained at Narita

O’Barry ... was barred entry when immigration officials reportedly said he is not a tourist, the visa he was using to enter Japan.

Here's a hint: having a lawyer on standby to deal with issues when you are denied short term entry suggests you are not here for sightseeing.

[dimwit]

Ric O’Barry, opponent of Japanese dolphin hunt, detained at Narita

O’Barry ... was barred entry when immigration officials reportedly said he is not a tourist, the visa he was using to enter Japan.

Here's a hint: having a lawyer on standby to deal with issues when you are denied short term entry suggests you are not here for sightseeing.

I dunno. The way I read it, calling it a tourist visa is a misnomer. You can engage in business as long as you aren't earning any money. Indeed, a number of people I know have visited customers and clients in Japan using the visa exemption. So, to me if him not being a tourist is the pretext for their denial it is bogus, and they clearly they are not following their own rules.

[wagyl]

Surely that depends on his answer at Narita to the "what is the purpose of your visit?" question.

He was "sightseeing" here not so long ago too. Doing that too often, and spending more of your life sightseeing in Japan than not being here (not that I know just how much of his time is spent here) can also be a red flag, as you know.

[Yokohammer]

This ...

According to Takano, O’Barry told him that the officials accused him of having close relations with the anti-whaling group Sea Shepherd ...

Is pretty flakey reasoning too.

[dimwit]

Surely that depends on his answer at Narita to the "what is the purpose of your visit?" question.

He was "sightseeing" here not so long ago too. Doing that too often, and spending more of your life sightseeing in Japan than not being here (not that I know just how much of his time is spent here) can also be a red flag, as you know.

Again, people often come to Japan on business multiple times a year. His crime, if their is one, is ticking off the wrong box on his visa exclusion form, which in most normal circumstances would result in a mild scolding by the immigration officer and requirement to redo the form.

[Samurai_Jerk]

I think they should let him in but plenty of countries do this kind of thing to keep out people they don't like. The UK has banned right-wing American radio host Michael Savage and Australia canceled the visa of FG's favorite pick up artist Julien Blanc. This is not to defend Japan's actions but I do wonder what everyone thinks is a good reason for a government to ban someone from entry.

[wagyl]

It has been a while since I have entered Japan on the visa exclusion, but back in the day there wasn't a "political and/or social agitation" box to tick.

He has made himself noteworthy to authorities numerous times in the past*, and shows no signs of altering his behaviour. Whether that is enough to give him a quick kick in the goonies by denying entry this time, is a matter of degree.

Again, people often come to Japan on business multiple times a year.

And again, I don't know his exact entry and exit record, but people who come on business three times a year, and use their full 90 days each time, tend to get looked at more closely on their fourth entry attempt. There comes a stage where you are obviously abusing the visa waiver program.

Or are you suggesting that visa waiver program means that every person who manages to obtain nationality in one of the favoured states has the automatic right to enter Japan as often as they like, and to "inadvertently" fill out their form incorrectly each time, and that Japan has no right to determine who enters Japanese sovereign soil? In that case, why waste time with immigration, just get people to wave their passport covers at a sensor.

* The latest, getting stopped for suspected drink driving, not producing his passport when requested, being held for two days before revealing that his passport was in the car all along. That, together with having a lawyer on speeddial to deal with your immigration issues, and to issue statements to the press, starts to suggest publicity stunt to me.