Hashimoto: no sex slaves please, we're Japanese

[matsuki]

Germans had to deal with their past, especially during World War II. It wasn’t easy, it took time, but by and large the Germans have acknowledged and come to terms with the ugly parts of their past. The Japanese never have.

Amazing how he pretty much "get's it" without even spending time living here.

[J.A.F.O]

I'm not even sure ze germans get it. How many smaller cities in germany are seeing resurgences in neo nazism?

[Mike Oxlong]

I'm not even sure ze germans get it. How many smaller cities in germany are seeing resurgences in neo nazism?

But, at least they get the opportunity to know about their past, warts and all. What's with family secrets so secret even the family can't know?

[kurogane]

What's with family secrets so secret even the family can't know?

Isn't that a gift that keeps on giving?

[J.A.F.O]

I'm not even sure ze germans get it. How many smaller cities in germany are seeing resurgences in neo nazism?

But, at least they get the opportunity to know about their past, warts and all. What's with family secrets so secret even the family can't know?

Right on then, weird how that all works out though. Piss on someone long enough and they just say "fuck it, we don't give a shit anymore"

[J.A.F.O]

What's with family secrets so secret even the family can't know?

Isn't that a gift that keeps on giving?

Kinda like herpes ...

[Coligny]

I'm not even sure ze germans get it. How many smaller cities in germany are seeing resurgences in neo nazism?

But, at least they get the opportunity to know about their past, warts and all. What's with family secrets so secret even the family can't know?

Ah think them Krauts know it's baaad but are attracted to it, while the locals here are jumping into the fire without understanding anything at all, but with a bright proud stupid smile on their faces.
And, most germans reports that the worst offenders are from former east Germany because Nazi's guilt was not taught there with the population being told the average kraut citizen was victim of the big nazi warmasheen But not its enabler.

Also...
I was reading on the g36 and came upon this:

In April 2012, reports surfaced that G36 rifles used in Afghanistan would overheat during prolonged firefights after several hundred rounds were fired. Overheating affected the accuracy of the G36, making it difficult to hit targets past 100 meters, ineffective past 200 meters, and incapable of effective fire past 300 meters. The G36 has been called unsuitable for long battles. HK said the rifle was not designed for sustained, continuous fire. German soldiers gave no negative feedback. Operational commanders advised allowing the weapon to cool between periods of rapid shooting.[13][14][15] In February 2014, the Federal Ministry of Defence announced that the overheating deficiencies of the G36 was not a result of weapon design, but of the ammunition. The manufacturer of the ammunition confirmed this,[16] although experts disagreed.

Now... When did the gsdf got involved in a firefight big enough to raise over heating issues in their equipment ?
My bet would be around: never because of their constitution... Made in USA constitution...

Japan might be in fact a bit like East Germany. Too much influence from one single victor pushing too much agenda.

Maybeeee ?

[kurogane]

Right on then, weird how that all works out though. Piss on someone long enough and they just say "fuck it, we don't give a shit anymore"

I think you have captured the sentiment I commonly come across in my travels. I can sympathise with that part, but that quibbling about Exact Numbers and all the similar anal obsessive detailed BS that Takechinchin is spouting doesn't make it right. Wage Slave has called it numerous times: face it, learn it, and stop reacting to the childish tantrums from those across the pond. It isn't like they haven't apologised enough, it's that they keep backtracking on it.

[Takechanpoo]

j-side never stop however or whatever C and K dudes and you gaijin pretenders slander us. we never care the international reputation.
coz we just try to correct the exaggerated part and the fabricated part as i said numerus times above. it should not be called revisionism.
if you dudes really want to put j-side to silence, do use scientific method, in other words disprove our claims thoroughly.
its plain and simple. but you dudes never ever do that. if you dont have comprehensive and systematic imformation about comfort whore and nanjin incident, just shut the fuk up and do not get involoved.

[matsuki]

deploy that childish quibbling can only see the toothpicks not the trees

Is this concept really beyond the comprehension of the revisionists? The whole point of studying history is learning from past success and mistakes. If you only study the success and fail to understand the mistakes and the shameful parts, you are setting yourself up for more failure and embarrassment.

History has plenty to be proud of, plenty to be ashamed of...pride/emotion can get fucked. Putting the focus on body counts/sex slave numbers/etc. detracts from the simple fact that the Japanese military treated non Japanese humans worse than animals. Changing numbers or watering down the language won't change that. The focus should be on why/how this dehumanizing behavior was allowed to occur and how it can be prevented.

[Coligny]

if you dudes really want to put j-side to silence, do use scientific method, in other words disprove our claims thoroughly.

Don't know... Nukes worked pretty well to get you to shut the fuck up. Needed 2 since as usual, locals are a bit slow in the brain...

But can't deny it worked good...

Or was it the scientific method you were implying ?

[J.A.F.O]

j-side never stop however or whatever C and K dudes and you gaijin pretenders slander us. we never care the international reputation.
coz we just try to correct the exaggerated part and the fabricated part as i said numerus times above. it should not be called revisionism.
if you dudes really want to put j-side to silence, do use scientific method, in other words disprove our claims thoroughly.
its plain and simple. but you dudes never ever do that. if you dont have comprehensive and systematic imformation about comfort whore and nanjin incident, just shut the fuk up and do not get involoved.

Well coming from a family moderately involved in the legal system I'm gonna agree in part. Only that rarely is any party truly innocent. Regardless It's still more difficult in trying to prove a negative. As old Dale Carnegie once observed: "Someone proved against their will is of the same opinion still"

[Wage Slave]

do use scientific method, in other words disprove our claims thoroughly.
its plain and simple. but you dudes never ever do that. if you dont have comprehensive and systematic imformation about comfort whore and nanjin incident, just shut the fuk up and do not get involoved.

Scientific method? You can call the revisionist assertions many things but scientific method it is not. Scientific method does not embrace making a series of claims based on little evidence and then saying that unless people can comprehensively demolish your assertions they are compelled to accept them. That's absurd.

So if I assert, backed by some sketchy and untested evidence, that there are fairies at the bottom of my garden do you feel that, according to scientific method, the world is obliged to accept that truth until such time as someone can comprehensively prove that there are in fact none living there? Or rather, isn't the burden of proof on me to prove their existence if I want anyone to take me seriously?

And which bit(s) of Nanking do you now deny? I sense mission creep - before you said that you accepted all the other crimes but denied that the Imperial Japanese Army ever engaged in recruiting and trafficking sex workers using coercion and deception. So what about the rape in Nanking? Do you now deny that?

[Russell]

‘Do mention the war,’ Merkel urges Japanese

Angela Merkel has urged Japan to confront its wartime conduct, citing Germany’s ability to “face our history” and reconcile with victims of its Nazi past.

The German chancellor’s diplomatic nudge came amid speculation that Japan’s prime minister, Shinzo Abe, may water down previous expressions of remorse in a new official statement to mark the 70th anniversary of the end of the second world war, and risk inflaming tensions with its neighbours.

In a speech in Tokyo organised by the liberal newspaper the AsahiShimbun, Merkel referred to the words of the late German president Richard von Weizsaecker who in a 1985 speech called Germany’s wartime defeat a “day of liberation” and said those who sought to deny Germany’s Nazi past were “blind to the present”.

It is unlikely Abe will welcome even a polite prompt by a fellow leader, but Merkel suggested Japan’s neighbours would also have to enter into the spirit of reconciliation.

German’s rehabilitation, she said, had only been possible because its former enemies were willing to accept that it had confronted its past.

“Without these generous gestures of our neighbours this would not have been possible,” she said. “There was, however, also a readiness in Germany to face our history openly and squarely.

“It’s difficult for me as a German chancellor to give you advice for how to deal with your neighbourhood. It has to come out of a process in society.”

More

Wise words from a gaijin...

[Coligny]

Japs answer asking why she's not at home taking care of her family in 3... 2...

(Not funnay because we all know they can/will say these kind of shit with a straight face...)

[Takechanpoo]

japanese ppl wholeheartedly respect germanys post war process, too. but what imperial japan did is clearly different from what nazi did. imperial japan did NOT exterminate or even try to do the whole of the specific categories of ppl(jew, roma, disabled ppl). what imperial japan did is the same with what germany did in WW1 at the very most. so its so-callled a category mistake that what the two country did in WW2 is treated in the same way. and as for apology and compensation of past colonial rules, japan is FAR ahead among ex-major powers. any other ex-major powers, even germany, have NOT apologized but also compensated their past colonial rules yet. so internaitonal society should or has to properly evaluate japans proceeding of past colonial rules of kimche peninsula.

[Takechanpoo]

you still call them "sex slaves"?

[Wage Slave]

Science! But not as we know it Captain.

Seriously - A You Tube video produced by some person of no obvious qualification, who doesn't even give his name, very selectively quoting a single source which isn't even identified properly and is certainly not cited so it can be checked. And you call this a scientific approach?

[Yokohammer]

There can be no science where an agenda is involved.

Like ... oh I dunno ... "saving face" for example?

[Takechanpoo]

as i said above, its a category mistake that what imperial japan and nazi did in WW2 is treated in the same way and then its also invalid to require japan of the same level of apology and compensation germany did. what imperial japan did in WW2 is no more than what germany did in WW1.　japan already completed to apologize to china. C-side rebuttal toward it is invalid. it is that thoughtless words from 2 or 3 j-congressmen invalidated apologies, or so. blah blah... in democratic society in which freespeech is recognized, if there are 100 congressmen, in principle its totally IMPOSSIBLE to suppress a few of them not to assert objections. so the C-side "rebuttal" is a sophism apparently. i cannot help doubt some gaijins common sense which support the c-side sophism toward j-apology(Oliver Stone is one of them). if you admit that kind of sophism, it will be an infinite loop(apology > invalid because of objections from afew j-congressmen > apology again > invalid again coz objections......). as for compensation, chinese govvernment itself resigned to the right. so its all finished already.
regarding kimchese? there is no need to do anything to them originally.

so its already fixed. japan do not need to do anything any more.

[matsuki]

as i said above, its a category mistake that what imperial japan and nazi did in WW2 is treated in the same way and then its also invalid to require japan of the same level of apology and compensation germany did. what imperial japan did in WW2 is no more than what germany did in WW1

So...Germany had a Unit 731?

so its already fixed. japan do not need to do anything any more.

Not that I think the Chinese and Koreans are easily satisfied or even any more reasonable when it comes to their emotional claims...but when you look at what Merkel said:

former enemies were willing to accept that it had confronted its past.

and

There was, however, also a readiness in Germany to face our history openly and squarely.

I have to ask....Japan does not need to do anything more according to who/what? If I fuck up a customers order, I can do the minimum legally required of me and tell them I don't need to do anything more (and maybe come across as an asshole) or I can go a little further to ensure the customer knows I'm truly sorry and appreciate their business. (they tend to walk away more than satisfied and order again) China and Korea are the okyakusan in this case, some lip biting may be required but there are many ways that more can be done. Germany may never live down the whole Nazi period in it's history but you don't see the kinds of claims and grievances with modern Germany/Germans that you do with Japan.

[Samurai_Jerk]

as i said above, its a category mistake that what imperial japan and nazi did in WW2 is treated in the same way and then its also invalid to require japan of the same level of apology and compensation germany did. what imperial japan did in WW2 is no more than what germany did in WW1

So...Germany had a Unit 731?

Yeah, they pretty much did: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation

[Coligny]

as i said above, its a category mistake that what imperial japan and nazi did in WW2 is treated in the same way and then its also invalid to require japan of the same level of apology and compensation germany did. what imperial japan did in WW2 is no more than what germany did in WW1

So...Germany had a Unit 731?

Yeah, they pretty much did: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation

Well... In WWI the Kaiser didn't... Mustard gas was kind of the max that was pulled of...

[Samurai_Jerk]

as i said above, its a category mistake that what imperial japan and nazi did in WW2 is treated in the same way and then its also invalid to require japan of the same level of apology and compensation germany did. what imperial japan did in WW2 is no more than what germany did in WW1

So...Germany had a Unit 731?

Yeah, they pretty much did: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazi_human_experimentation

Well... In WWI the Kaiser didn't... Mustard gas was kind of the max that was pulled of...

Yeah, but's always good to remind people what pieces of shit the Germans are.

[matsuki]

LOL....but yeah, I was saying that in reference to Take's "what imperial japan did in WW2 is no more than what germany did in WW1"

[Takechanpoo]

So...Germany had a Unit 731?



I have to ask....Japan does not need to do anything more according to who/what? If I fuck up a customers order, I can do the minimum legally required of me and tell them I don't need to do anything more (and maybe come across as an asshole) or I can go a little further to ensure the customer knows I'm truly sorry and appreciate their business. (they tend to walk away more than satisfied and order again) China and Korea are the okyakusan in this case, some lip biting may be required but there are many ways that more can be done. Germany may never live down the whole Nazi period in it's history but you don't see the kinds of claims and grievances with modern Germany/Germans that you do with Japan.

it seems like you dont get my point.
i mean
(what nazi did) - (what imp-J did) ≒ holocaust
unit 731 is a trivial thing compared with it.
i follow the classification of Karl Jaspers, in which holocaust is clearly distinguished with war. Weizsacker's famous speech is based on his classificaiton, too.
and dealing korea in the same way with china is a huge mistake, as i said above.
as to yasukuni shrine, class A criminals will be divided to another facility again at no distant date.

[Takechanpoo]

Angela Merkel has urged Japan to confront its wartime conduct, citing Germany’s ability to “face our history” and reconcile with victims of its Nazi past.

The German chancellor’s diplomatic nudge came amid speculation that Japan’s prime minister, Shinzo Abe, may water down previous expressions of remorse in a new official statement to mark the 70th anniversary of the end of the second world war, and risk inflaming tensions with its neighbours.

In a speech in Tokyo organised by the liberal newspaper the AsahiShimbun, Merkel referred to the words of the late German president Richard von Weizsaecker who in a 1985 speech called Germany’s wartime defeat a “day of liberation” and said those who sought to deny Germany’s Nazi past were “blind to the present”.
blah blah.....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/m ... me-conduct
there came many english medias articles based on the 3 category mistakes i said above.

i would like to say again,
what imperial japan did is almost the same with what germany did in WW1.
germany have continued to reflect what they did in WW1? the answer is no, needless to say.
its almost only holocaust, which should be clearly distinguished from mere war or atrocity, which gemany have continued reflecting until now.
and imperial japan did not do holocaust.
so its a category mistake that requiring japan of the same level of apology and reflection germany have done.

[Coligny]

I know you are usually more a troll than an idiot. but since you are reversing the trend.

Read that one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_I

And explain again how invading Manchuria is the same as unending trench warfare around Verdun.

Also, after WWI the expected repaiement from Germany was huge. including occupation of the Ruhr when the money stopped.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupation_of_the_Ruhr

Basically it is thought that the strain on a weak german economy and the toothless League of Nation (SDN sort of beta version of the UN) was responsible for german discontent and fueled the rise of Hitler.

How the fuck can you compare this to 1945 Japan ?

[Yokohammer]

Angela Merkel has urged Japan to confront its wartime conduct, citing Germany’s ability to “face our history” and reconcile with victims of its Nazi past.

The German chancellor’s diplomatic nudge came amid speculation that Japan’s prime minister, Shinzo Abe, may water down previous expressions of remorse in a new official statement to mark the 70th anniversary of the end of the second world war, and risk inflaming tensions with its neighbours.

In a speech in Tokyo organised by the liberal newspaper the AsahiShimbun, Merkel referred to the words of the late German president Richard von Weizsaecker who in a 1985 speech called Germany’s wartime defeat a “day of liberation” and said those who sought to deny Germany’s Nazi past were “blind to the present”.
blah blah.....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/m ... me-conduct
there came many english medias articles based on the 3 category mistakes i said above.

i would like to say again,
what imperial japan did is almost the same with what germany did in WW1.
germany have continued to reflect what they did in WW1? the answer is no, needless to say.
its almost only holocaust, which should be clearly distinguished from mere war or atrocity, which gemany have continued reflecting until now.
and imperial japan did not do holocaust.
so its a category mistake that requiring japan of the same level of apology and reflection germany have done.

Takechan,

You need to (Japan needs to) stop comparing to other countries and start focusing on what Japan did and how to show an appropriate, responsible, mature attitude in light of the facts that are known. "What Japan did is not as bad as what Germany did" is just a fatuous argument that won't hold any currency with intelligent people either in Japan or overseas. It doesn't matter that Germany or America or anyone else has committed atrocities during wartime in the past. Those are issues that have been or need to be addressed individually. What matters to Japan and how the rest of the world interacts with Japan, is how Japan handles Japan's own issues, without diverting attention with childish tactics like "but Taro-kun next door did it too!"

Even if Japan is not as guilty as charged on some issues, Japan is not totally innocent of any of them and, for the sake of being seen as a mature, trustworthy nation that can play an equal role on the world stage, it may be necessary to swallow a little pride, show appropriate and unchanging remorse, and just get on with it.

But here's a comparison for you:

Between 5,000,000 and 6,000,000 Jews were killed in the holocaust.
Approximately 4,000,000 Chinese and 1,740,000 Japanese died in the Pacific war (that's 5,740,000 just in China and Japan) ... a war that Japan started.

[wangta]

Angela Merkel has urged Japan to confront its wartime conduct, citing Germany’s ability to “face our history” and reconcile with victims of its Nazi past.

The German chancellor’s diplomatic nudge came amid speculation that Japan’s prime minister, Shinzo Abe, may water down previous expressions of remorse in a new official statement to mark the 70th anniversary of the end of the second world war, and risk inflaming tensions with its neighbours.

In a speech in Tokyo organised by the liberal newspaper the AsahiShimbun, Merkel referred to the words of the late German president Richard von Weizsaecker who in a 1985 speech called Germany’s wartime defeat a “day of liberation” and said those who sought to deny Germany’s Nazi past were “blind to the present”.
blah blah.....

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/m ... me-conduct
there came many english medias articles based on the 3 category mistakes i said above.

i would like to say again,
what imperial japan did is almost the same with what germany did in WW1.
germany have continued to reflect what they did in WW1? the answer is no, needless to say.
its almost only holocaust, which should be clearly distinguished from mere war or atrocity, which gemany have continued reflecting until now.
and imperial japan did not do holocaust.
so its a category mistake that requiring japan of the same level of apology and reflection germany have done.

You obviously have never studied First World War history. Simplistic comparisons of the Kaiser's WW1 Germany with Imperial Japan before and during WW2 are precisely that. The German military certainly did some disgusting actions just like all sides do in wartime no matter the moral high ground countries like to take after. But there was a fair bit of propaganda about 'the Huns', 'the Boche', the spiked helmet monsters that served to bury the fact that the 'English' Royal family were actually Germans of the House of Saxe Coburg Gotha and the Germans were entwined with the order of old Europe prior to WW1.

The German Government actually took out advertisements in American, English, Scottish and Irish newspapers warning non German people that if they travelled on ocean liners during the conflict then the German U Boats could be dangerous to them. They also publicised the fact that they saw ocean liners carrying armaments as military ships and civilians travelling on those ships would not be safe. The Lusitania was carrying war-related cargo when it was sunk and the fact that civilians died was a huge propaganda coupe for the anti German side although the fact that the Lusitania was not simply a civilian ship was not made known to the general public.

One of the reasons why Japan was so shamed after WW2 was its unashamed policy just like that of Nazi Germany of shocking cruelty to POWs and civilians to name two of its offences. Death camps, death marches, and vile medical experiments were the norm rather than instances of cruelty that were unconnected to both states' policies. Unit 731 could have been a Nazi Germany unit such was its association with the sickening experiments on non Japanese a la Dr Mengele and other Nazis and and their experiments on Jewish people, the disabled and gypsies.

Nanjing was a war crime by any normal, reasonable definition yet Japan's national broadcasting station until recently employed in high places unapologetic fascists who deny just about every verifiable fact of Japan and WW2 including the prolonged brutalisation of the civilian population of Nanjing and the coercion of Korean women into sexual slavery for the Japanese military. In Okinawa the Japanese military command not only ordered their soldiers, sailors and airmen to kill themselves but ordered them to kill Okinawan civilians in a mass 'suicide'.

I could go on but I think what I've written gives some idea of what is wrong with Japan's attitude to its history much as I understand other countries haven't faced up to their own issues enough and Hiroshima was one of the worst war crimes of all time although no doubt it saved other lives including those of other Japanese people lucky enough not to have had atomic bombs dropped on them.