Tokyo not even ranked as "courteous city"

[Captain Japan]

I wasn't going to comment on this thread but...

Today I was reading a magazine in front of Ebisu Station. I was sitting on one of the benches in front of the JR Station. A homeless drunk guy was next to me, singing songs as they tend to do.

He tried to make conversation with me, some ladies, and just about anyone who was walking past. He had a few bags and was wearing a cap.

All of a sudden he grabbed his bags and headed off. He took three steps and tumbled to the ground two benches away from me. I looked over and could see he was bleeding from his mouth and nose. The guy was probably 60 and only had a few teeth left.

Every single Japanese in the area scattered as if he were a cockroach. I got up and walked over. He wasn't in too bad shape but it wasn't good. Then I looked back to see that some jerk had taken my seat!

As he was lying there I asked him if he was ok, where he lived, etc. He just kept apologizing and thanking me. I started to look around saw that people were indeed looking but just kept walking past. One lady came over and offered tissues - to me! She wouldn't hand them to him; she wanted me to be the relay guy.

A little later some cops from the koban showed up. They talked to him and I sort of stepped back, after explaining what had happened. Then they split living him still lying there!

Eventually he got up on his knees and started singing again, blood still all over his face. Finally he got back on the bench and fell asleep.

I suppose there is not a lot that one can do in this case. But people in this city are such damn chickens. I've been living here 8 years and I've never seen one Japanese raise a finger to help anyone in this kind of situation.

Boatloads of omiyages and returned wallets make nice stories but I don't really see too much genorosity in this city when it really counts.

[AssKissinger]

CJ, I have about ten stories just like that.

[cstaylor]

Well, start spilling the stories, AK! I have one from tonight. I was having dinner with Gomigirl and her brother at his new place, and we might have been a tad loud (at 10:30pm in the evening). A neighbor from across the street came all the way over to inform us about how loud we were.

Now, I'm not an acoustics specialist nor a physicist, but I can say with absolute conviction that the lady's own television could easily beat us out on volume (due to distance^2 from the window to her place), but because she could hear English, she ran over as fast as her little legs could carry her to complain.

Now, if we had been driving around her place in black vans with high-decibel "patriotic music" blaring, do you think she would have complained?

[AssKissinger]

Well, start spilling the stories, AK!

One night one of my buddies and myself came across a drunk salaryman fallen slightly bloodied and unable to stand. Like CJ's story everyone was avoiding him like the plague. We helped him to his feet and got him in a cab. Like CJ's story he was on and on with gomenasai and arigato and sumimasen and all this. I was like 'It's cool everybody gets drunk and falls down at somepoint'. The thing is I probably wouldn't help in America so I can't really be that judgemental I guess. The thing that pissed me off about that guy is I figured his salaryman buddies ditched him but that's just speculation.

[Captain Japan]

CJ, I have about ten stories just like that.

I don't probably have 10 but I have quite a few. But I don't think I've seen one person help anyone in this city.

A Japanese friend of mine - a pretty nice-looking lady - tumbled down some stairs in an Odakyu station on the way to work the other day. Her legs were bruised and there was a little blood. Not too bad. But she was shocked that not one person helped her.

I wasn't surprised. But the fact that she was surprised was interesting. I'm sure she's noticed that nobody gets helped. So why should she? Or is everyone just - as Mulboyne mentioned - continually walking around in their own world? If yes, then when the guy hit the pavement in front of Ebisu why'd everyone in the area bolt?

[AssKissinger]

A lot of it is things like a really old person has trouble climbing onto a train and no one offering a hand and then no one giving up their seat. Or someone trying to catch a train with a lot of luggage and nobody helping out. One time, at a very small town country train station I saw a guy with lots of luggage and I was trying to tell him he was waiting at the wrong spot for I knew that for some fucking reason they only opened the train doors way the fuck down at the other end of the platform. It was like they intentionally chose the worst spot possible. A stairway even made it dangerously narrow. But the guy just growled at me like I was some kind of idiot gaijin mumbling some sort of barbarian nonsense at him. When the train arrived and he was at the wrong spot I just looked at him like 'I tried to tell you dumb ass'. In his mad rush he dropped some of his shit though and I was the only one who helped him collect his stuff.

[jr101]

[B]Hmm.....japan is not courteous!! what a shocker....i know most people back home have this image of such a "polite" culture,unfortunately they never have been on a train at any time or dealt with your average oyagi......time to change the game

[emperor]

I dont think you can gauge against this list based on attentiveness to homeless people or the elderly...

1.New York ... dont they frequently find dead people / crazies / hobos who've been riding the subway all day?

Dublin can be a very courteous city and while people will stop to help the elderly or the occasional drunk person (cause thats you on another evening) - they would be more reluctant to come to the aide of a homeless person (people resent them hanging around ATM machines.

& after 2 visits to Japan:
1x 1 month +
1x 1 year
my impression of Japan is that of a fairly courteous place;
...maybe I was just too hammered for recall when I came across rude people
...besides you get assholes everywhere

[maraboutslim]

I always figured it's just that the Japanese do not have social structures in place for dealing with "strangers". Everything is designed for dealing with people within groups. Hell, you can't even speak the damn language properly until you know who the person is you are speaking too and what their station in life is and whether they are someway related to a group you belong to or maybe they are a customer or maybe you are their customer or...you get the idea.

But the strangers that one runs into in daily life on the trains or on the streets are anonymous. They almost don't exist. There are no rules for dealing with them. Just go about your business as if you are the only person in the world - until you run into someone that has a connection to yourself and know how you are expected to behave.

When foreigners come to Japan and write letters to the newspaper saying how polite everyone was, you can rest assured they had some sort of business or personal connection and were therefore treated in the way Japanese society dictates.



I also wonder if the reluctance to get involved with helping others in need is sometimes related to the concept of obligation. Meaning the obligation the one who received help would then be under to the one who gave the help. It just starts this ridiculous cycle.

[Mulboyne]

I tend to think along the same lines as 'slim which is why I think "polite" fits Tokyoites but "kind" doesn't. The time of day is probably important too. You are even less likely to see people stop and help when they are on their way to work in the morning rush hour. The boss wouldn't look well on that as an excuse for being late. Of course, that might be true in other cities to some degree too.

[Jack]

[B]Hmm.....japan is not courteous!! what a shocker....i know most people back home have this image of such a "polite" culture,unfortunately they never have been on a train at any time or dealt with your average oyagi......time to change the game

Here's a rocket scientist talking. For you tweety brain, if you had the volume of people Tokyo has on its trains in any other city at every stop there would be chaos. In Japan crowds move swiftly and efficiently in train stations. Ginza line at 8:30 in the morning is there any courtesy opportunities left? people have to go to work and they got to get on the train. If that's your yardstick for courtesy you are one fucking idiot as most gaijins English teachers in Japan.

[Jack]

The thing is I probably wouldn't help in America so I can't really be that judgemental I guess. The thing that pissed me off about that guy is I figured his salaryman buddies ditched him but that's just speculation.

I noticed that gaijins though the majority are fucked up losers in Japan tend to be more courteous than in their home country. I'm the same way. I wouldn't lift a finger if I saw a homeless in Toronto bleeding on the street. I'd probably be happy that soon there will be one less homeless if he keeps bleeding. But in Japan, I'd probably try to help.

[Captain Japan]

[Behan]

When my family and I went to Kyoto, two taxi drivers we met there were great. Really friendly. And then when we got back to Tokyo and took a taxi, the driver coldly told my wife to close the door when she got out. What a contrast.
(She had been sitting up front because there a bunch of us. The front door doesn't have that automatic opener-closer thing. OK, you already know this and I really am an FG! with capital letters and exclamation point!)

[Jack]

When my family and I went to Kyoto, two taxi drivers we met there were great. Really friendly. And then when we got back to Tokyo and took a taxi, the driver coldly told my wife to close the door when she got out. What a contrast.
(She had been sitting up front because there a bunch of us. The front door doesn't have that automatic opener-closer thing. OK, you already know this and I really am an FG! with capital letters and exclamation point!)

Poor babe. He told her "coldly" to close the door? And that offended your sensitivity? If that's the only complaint you've got of Tokyo then you had it pretty good, don't you think? The worst memories I have of Japan are all taxi related.

[kusai Jijii]

One night one of my buddies and myself came across a drunk salaryman fallen slightly bloodied and unable to stand. Like CJ's story everyone was avoiding him like the plague. We helped him to his feet and got him in a cab. Like CJ's story he was on and on with gomenasai and arigato and sumimasen and all this. I was like 'It's cool everybody gets drunk and falls down at somepoint'. The thing is I probably wouldn't help in America so I can't really be that judgemental I guess. The thing that pissed me off about that guy is I figured his salaryman buddies ditched him but that's just speculation.

I've got several stories...

I once saw an elderly lady fall on an up-escalator leading to a train platform, after which TWO balding saleryman literally jumped over her bleeding body and continued their dash towards their rush hour train.

I also saw a drunk homless guy at JR Osaka fall and split his head open. Predictably, people just stepped over him and went about their buisness. When my friend and I went to fetch a JR dude, we were told words to the effect "Dont worry, he's just a dunk homeless guy who is here all the time. What do you expect us to do about it?"

my wife and I came a cross an old bloke who had had a fall in the local shotengai. We called an ambulance. Most of the rubber-necks walking passed just kept glancing over at the guy on the ground with the look on their faces like "what the fuck did that gaijin do to that oyajii?"

I could go on and on and on...

[amdg]

Poor babe. He told her "coldly" to close the door? And that offended your sensitivity? If that's the only complaint you've got of Tokyo then you had it pretty good, don't you think? The worst memories I have of Japan are all taxi related.

Taxi-related complaints? If that's the only complaint you have then you've had it pretty good, don't you think?

[GomiGirl]

Taxi-related complaints? If that's the only complaint you have then you've had it pretty good, don't you think?

99.9999% of the taxis I ride have fab drivers who are pleasant and courteous... lots of them want a chat. I have only had a handful of rude or bad taxi drivers and they are the ones that seem to stick out in my mind. But then again that is true of most overseas experiences - it is just the bad ones that colour the rest of the experience.

[Greji]

99.9999% of the taxis I ride have fab drivers who are pleasant and courteous... lots of them want a chat.

They're just trying to get in your knicks, love!

[GomiGirl]

They're just trying to get in your knicks, love!

Aren't they all????

[Greji]

I noticed that gaijins though the majority are fucked up losers in Japan

Right as usual Jack. BTW should you have any difficulty with work and still want to come over to Japan, drop me a line. I suppose that even though I might be a fucked up loser I might be able to find something for you in the 37 companies, five associations, three foundations, that we directly control, not to count subsideraries.

I won't get into my role since i guess I'm too fucked up, but might be able to find something that you can chase beaver while doing.

[GomiGirl]

Right as usual Jack. BTW should you have any difficulty with work and still want to come over to Japan, drop me a line. I suppose that even though I might be a fucked up loser I might be able to find something for you in the 37 companies, five associations, three foundations, that we directly control, not to count subsideraries.

Then there are my 5 companies, 2 associations and other ventures. But then GBoothe has a few years on me so there is time to catch up.

[kusai Jijii]

Right as usual Jack. BTW should you have any difficulty with work and still want to come over to Japan, drop me a line. I suppose that even though I might be a fucked up loser I might be able to find something for you in the 37 companies, five associations, three foundations, that we directly control, not to count subsideraries.

I won't get into my role since i guess I'm too fucked up, but might be able to find something that you can chase beaver while doing.

Fuckin' priceless!
Oh, and if Jack doesnt work out, and you need a resident bever chaser, PM me. I'm thinking of going professional!:p

[kusai Jijii]

you are one fucking idiot as most gaijins English teachers in Japan.

Not that I completely disagree with you on that one Jack, but, if I may, what line of work were you in while residing in Japan?

[Typhoon]

Can't really say about NY but their estimate of Hong Kong and Seoul seem actually high. My own experiences of those places was how refreshingly polite people were when I return to Japan. I would guess that Tokyo would rank fairly high up on the list, Osaka, where rudeness is a point of regional pride, far less so.

Haven't been to NYC since 1976 so I can't comment on it.

Zurich is a big surprise.

However in my experience I've found people in the Kansai area, including Osaka and Kyoto, to definately be friendlier and more polite than those in Kanto.

Less exposure to slovenly gaikokujin with attitude?

[Typhoon]

Right as usual Jack. BTW should you have any difficulty with work and still want to come over to Japan, drop me a line. I suppose that even though I might be a fucked up loser I might be able to find something for you in the 37 companies, five associations, three foundations, that we directly control, not to count subsideraries.

I won't get into my role since i guess I'm too fucked up, but might be able to find something that you can chase beaver while doing.

In what industry do you work?

[halfnip]

In what industry do you work?

Yeah, I'd like to know too.... I thought boothie was just a beaver hunter.

[GomiGirl]

Yeah, I'd like to know too.... I thought boothie was just a beaver hunter.

Goat herding empire.

[Typhoon]

Yeah, I'd like to know too.... I thought boothie was just a beaver hunter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZuVTvkr3ack

[tidbits]

Most of the Japanese are polite, but sometimes you do meet some that are not. Just about 2 months back, there was one day me and my son was at an open space outdoor, outside of a shopping mall where they put sign asking cyclist to get down and walk across this space. ( if I were to record on a video, you would see 9 out of 10 cyclist didn't do that) and some even travelling with high speed. My son was playing around when suddenly came this bicycle on the high speed which almost hit my son. The (oyaji) cyclist probaly was shock too but his first reaction was he shouted and scold at him so loud that my son so even more shocked and cried out loud. In just a second he speed off again, and I shouted at him in Japanese 'let's go to the police' (which is useless I know but I was angry) he stop about less than 100 meter away and shouted back 'Baka Oya! and speed off again. I think he probably know he was wrong, that is why he ran away. Typing this still makes my blood boils, if this oyaji is in front of me, I am going to take my key board and smash on his head.