Bizarre Justification For Fingerprinting Foreigners

[TennoChinko]

full of piss and vinegar, aren't you? just because you have permanent residence doesn't mean it can't be revoked. just because you have a japanese wife and kids doesn't mean they can't and wouldn't ship your ass back to wherever it is in the great land of gaikoku that you come from. sure, your wife and kids could join you there and in that respect they "can't separate you".

is it a stupid law? yes.
do you have a right to be frustrated? of course.

would i personally make a scene at the airport? likely no more than a small show of annoyance to put a human face to the absurdity of what they're doing.

How does one scream "Don't Taze me, bro!!!" in Japanese?

[GuyJean]

The Gaijin Press pick it up..

Minister: 'Friend of a friend' in al Qaeda
http://edition.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/asiapcf/10/30/japan.alqaeda/index.html

Japan's justice minister said "a friend of a friend ... is a member of al Qaeda" and had entered the country several times, using various passports, an officer of the Justice Ministry told CNN.

Justice Minister Kumio Hatoyama's comments came during a news conference at the Foreign Correspondents' Club of Japan on Monday when he was explaining Japan's new, tougher immigration procedures, which will require foreigners to provide finger prints and photographs upon entering the county.

"A friend of a friend of mine is a member of al Qaeda involved in a bombing in Bali," Hatoyama said, adding the alleged member of the terrorist network had gone in and out of Japan a number of times two or three years ago.

Later on Monday, Hatoyama held another news conference and tried to clarify his comments, saying, "I am not a friend of the terrorist and I do not know him personally."

According to Hatoyama, he does know a man in a butterfly collectors group he belongs to who said he received a message a man believed to be involved with a terrorist organization...

Oh, yeah. Blame it on the butterfly collectors.. Easy target.

GJ

[joshuaism]

You just can't trust any government ministers anymore.

If Hatoyama ever comes to the states, lets hope he gets as much scrutiny from the DHS as this UK minister got.

Minister detained at US airport

Britain's first Muslim minister, Shahid Malik, says he is "deeply disappointed" that he was detained by airport security officials in America.
The international development minister was stopped and searched at Washington DC's Dulles airport after a series of meetings on tackling terrorism.

Mr Malik, MP for Dewsbury, West Yorks, had his hand luggage checked for explosives when returning to Heathrow.

He said the same thing happened to him at JFK airport in New York last year... link.

[fucked]

I don't know about you guys, but I love the comedy that is Japanese politics. I no longer hope for change, but I sure as hell expect to have but-gusting jokes like the Birth-Machine Health Minister, the A-Bomb We-Got-It-Coming Defense Minister, and I-Know-AlQaida! Attorney General!

Rock On, Japanese politicos! You can have my 500 man in taxes!

[Iraira]

There's something that worries me. Do the local citizenry see the stupidity and blatant BS going on here? Or are they simply too __________(insert adjectives of choice) to realize when they are being lied to? I get it that, as they don't have to get printed, it's easy to say "So what", but when your politicos say stuff that is that whack, shouldn't it make you worry?

[Mulboyne]

...Do the local citizenry see the stupidity and blatant BS going on here?...

Most people probably know he was bullshitting. I'm sure he thought he was telling a porky along the lines of "a friend of mine had his bike stolen by a foreigner" but horribly misjudged the implications of what he was saying. When the journalists began to call him on it, as Captain Japan says, he dug himself deeper. The question of whether Japanese citizens will care very much comes down to how embarrassing this becomes overseas.

I haven't seen many Japanese bloggers picking up the story even though it has appeared in the Japanese newspapers. It might be a little early: the 2ch thread has only just got going. One guy wonders whether someone in Al Qaeda is going around telling people that a friend of a friend of his is the Japanese Minister of Justice.

[American Oyaji]

It was on CNN earlier this morning on the ticker.

[james]

And then what? Roll over and take it like a bitch? It sure sounds like you're good at that, what with making all the faces and such. If you're angry about it, let them know. Tell the world, it's the only way to evoke change.

the world already knows..

you need to learn to pick your battles and be a little more pragmatic mate. one raving gaijin lunatic at the airport isn't going to accomplish anything. but go ahead, prove to all of us how much of a "bitch" you aren't the next time you fly back in. i'd say that i look forward to seeing your mugshot, but the simple fact of the matter is the only people who will see you will be the kindly customs and immigrations officers who escort you to a detention centre and whoever is in line behind you, watching you disturb the wa.

[Iraira]

the world already knows..

you need to learn to pick your battles and be a little more pragmatic mate. one raving gaijin lunatic at the airport isn't going to accomplish anything. but go ahead, prove to all of us how much of a "bitch" you aren't the next time you fly back in. i'd say that i look forward to seeing your mugshot, but the simple fact of the matter is the only people who will see you will be the kindly customs and immigrations officers who escort you to a detention centre and whoever is in line behind you, watching you disturb the wa.

This means, do not, despite the intense desire, do not whip your ballsack onto the fingerprint scanner and say, "I'll give you somethig to scan, but you better have a lot of memory to store this bad boy! He's the terrorist you are looking for." I'm sure you're all clean and all, but I don't want to have to press my stubby fingers where anyone's zagnuts have recently rested....no offense.

[james]

This means, do not, despite the intense desire, do not whip your ballsack onto the fingerprint scanner and say, "I'll give you somethig to scan, but you better have a lot of memory to store this bad boy! He's the terrorist you are looking for." I'm sure you're all clean and all, but I don't want to have to press my stubby fingers where anyone's zagnuts have recently rested....no offense.

lmao..

[Adhesive]

This means, do not, despite the intense desire, do not whip your ballsack onto the fingerprint scanner and say, "I'll give you somethig to scan,

Just tell them that gaijin don't have fingerprints like unique Japanese, and instead have to be identified by their scrotum. They'll buy it.

[FG Lurker]

And then what? Roll over and take it like a bitch? It sure sounds like you're good at that, what with making all the faces and such. If you're angry about it, let them know. Tell the world, it's the only way to evoke change.

I sincerely appreciate your willingness to sacrifice yourself for the greater good. I wish you luck with your airport tirade and I hope the food has improved at the immigration detention centres before you arrive.

[Greji]

I sincerely appreciate your willingness to sacrifice yourself for the greater good. I wish you luck with your airport tirade and I hope the food has improved at the immigration detention centres before you arrive.

The Kosugi Detention Center provides excellent courses in what to do when in Rome.....

[Mulboyne]

There are a few 2ch threads on Hatoyama's blunder. The longest runs to about a thousand comments. Apart from a few asides - such as mentioning that George Bush's friend of a friend is Bin Laden himself - they rip him to shreds better than we could do. However, I've hardly seen anyone mention the fingerprint issue.

For me, Hatoyama's claim showed just how feeble is the government's justification for introducing fingerprinting. In front of a sceptical audience of foreign journalists, he tried to invoke the terrorist bogeyman in an off the cuff moment because no-one was buying his other arguments. I can't believe he would have even thought of coming up with that rubbish if he hadn't been trying to make a case for the new policy.

To read 2ch, you would conclude his comment was an isolated brainstorm during a general briefing. That's why a number of people think he was boasting, in the same way as someone might mention having a mate who knows the yakuza, when he was actually hoping to convey an impression of just how much at risk Japan might be from terrorism.

[2triky]

Just tell them that gaijin don't have fingerprints like unique Japanese, and instead have to be identified by their scrotum. They'll buy it.

Instead of retinal scans, they'll employ "sack scans" which work by teabagging the security staff.

[Greji]

Instead of retinal scans, they'll employ "sack scans" which work by teabagging the security staff.

I'm for it, but only if they employ detection goats!

[2triky]

I'm for it, but only if they employ detection goats!

lol. goats. demo yabai kore.

[ttjereth]

Yes. But note that green card holders can go through the U.S. citizen's line, which is much faster than the visitor line. Even the U.S. citizens' booths have the biometric equipment installed for just this purpose. In fact, most airports are lenient and seem to let families stay together in the U.S. citizens' line if anybody in the family is a U.S. citizen. The non-citizens have to get scanned, but at least it's fast.

They always make me and my wife go through the dirty foreigners line

Portland, Chicago, Detroit, Houston and Los Angeles.

Maybe my wife looks dangerous...

[ttjereth]

A bigger question is why the justice minister is pals with a person who associates with members of al-Qaida...as well as why he would publically state this as well.

and why they don't have him under a spotlight with rubber hoses standing by to get more information on his "friend".

[ttjereth]

More on that gaijin scapegoat crime theory from our beloved J-ministers, I wonder how much their salaries would slump if gaijins and zainichis stopped paying their taxes.

At present my guess would be "not too much" considering the still fairly small percentages of us present (and smaller percentages actually paying taxes )

Question is

Will elitists like Bill Gates, the Clintons and GW be getting their mugshot when entering Japan ?

I can't remember the exact wording but people on diplomatic and other official government business are exempt (according to the posters at immigration when I read them because I had nothing better to while waiting for a number to be called for 4 hours...), so my guess it only Gates would be getting the photo and such.

[omae mona]

They always make me and my wife go through the dirty foreigners line

Portland, Chicago, Detroit, Houston and Los Angeles.

Maybe my wife looks dangerous...

Well my wife actually *is* dangerous, trust me. But they let us through the citizens line in LA just this year, and I've had no trouble in New York either.

[ttjereth]

Well my wife actually *is* dangerous, trust me. But they let us through the citizens line in LA just this year, and I've had no trouble in New York either.

I make it a point to ask each time in the hopes that they will let us through the faster citizens' line, but they never do. Maybe I just look too desperate and they enjoy imposing that minor bit of suffering on me.

My wife is mostly only dangerous around shopping areas and in the kitchen

[omae mona]

I make it a point to ask each time in the hopes that they will let us through the faster citizens' line, but they never do. Maybe I just look too desperate and they enjoy imposing that minor bit of suffering on me.

We are usually also laden with kids, so maybe they have pity. Or maybe it's because as a group the majority of us are U.S. citizens, with only one suspicious foreigner in the party. This is a mystery.

[ttjereth]

We are usually also laden with kids, so maybe they have pity. Or maybe it's because as a group the majority of us are U.S. citizens, with only one suspicious foreigner in the party. This is a mystery.

Could be, I don't think I could bring myself to make kids just to play the pity card though, mainly because if I had kids I'd honestly deserve the pity

I think to some extent it's just who you happen to get that day/hour/phase of the moon, and I tend to have terrible luck with airline/airport personnel for some reason.

My wife and I had a small wedding ceremony in the states when we got married in addition to the big fancy Japan one and one of the security personnel in Chicago tried to make my wife check her wedding dress because she had that an a bag of omiyage, even though we managed to make it from Tokyo to that point without any problems and the airline itself said it was okay.

My general experiences with airline/airport staff are so bad that it's actually easier to recall the number of positive experiences I've had than negative.

One immigration officer in Portland almost gave me a heart attack one time when he wished me a happy birthday and welcomed me home. I thought for sure if my usual karma kicked in that it meant the customs guy was going to shoot dead or something.

[Mulboyne]

Asahi on the attack:

Hatoyama and al-Qaida

...Hatoyama admitted some of his remarks were insufficient and could produce misunderstanding. But that is not the problem. The justice minister spoke about the serious issue of terrorism by referring to uncertain information as if it was true. As the person responsible for public security, he should be criticized for his careless behavior. Hatoyama talked about this "al-Qaida member" while explaining the new immigration control system, which will require all foreign visitors to Japan 16 years old and over to be fingerprinted and photographed as they enter the country.

The system, designed as a counterterrorism measure, is scheduled to be put into force on Nov. 20. There are, however, critics who argue the system could arouse prejudice since it treats all foreigners as potential security threats to the nation. Hatoyama may have wanted to convince the foreign media of the need for the system. But his attempt was counterproductive because he used unconfirmed information to support his argument. His actions can only be described as thoughtless...A person who makes inconsiderate comments on important issues like anti-terrorism measures, capital punishment and judicial reform cannot be regarded as qualified to serve as justice minister.

[dimwit]

Asahi on the attack:

Hatoyama and al-Qaida

The thing I find most distressing is that even if you turf out the LDP and that Hatoyama, you get the DJP and the other Hatoyama who by all accounts is just as bad.

With this entire debate I don't really see the purpose of bothering to fingerprint and photograph PR's other than to waste time for both immigration officers and residents.

[Captain Japan]

It doesn't sound like he regrets this too much. As usual, he is merely apologizing for the subsequent nuisance:
Justice minister apologizes for linking himself to al-Qaida terrorist
Asahi

Justice Minister Kunio Hatoyama apologized Tuesday for creating a brouhaha by indirectly linking himself to an al-Qaida member involved in the terrorist attack in Bali that killed more than 200 people.

"(Before a Cabinet meeting Tuesday morning,) I told Prime Minister Yasuo Fukuda that I'm sorry for causing various concerns," Hatoyama said in a news conference.

However, Hatoyama said he defended his remarks because a friend indeed told him that a suspected al-Qaida member had entered Japan.

"Mustn't I tell a fact? I cited the (al-Qaida) story to say that we must implement (immigration control) policies appropriately," Hatoyama said....more...

He is still maintaining the friend-of-a-friend line. So I think he still has some explaining to do.

[amdg]

"Mustn't I tell a fact? I cited the (al-Qaida) story to say that we must implement (immigration control) policies appropriately," Hatoyama said....

You just have to learn the difference between “what a friend told you” and what you call “first hand knowledge”. The difference between the two is the reason for the rule against hearsay. People are unreliable, so just because they told you something, don’t make it true. It’s too easy for you to just come forward and report what you heard, because no-one can hold you accountable and call you a liar if it turns out to be false – you can just say “Well, that’s what he told me!”. On the other hand, if your friend comes forward to give an account of what he knows, then that is more reliable, because we can probe him for details, and his reputation as an honest person is on the line.

You know, as Justice Minister, you really need to get on top of these distinctions.

The only “fact” you know is that your friend told you something. It doesn’t prove anything at all about the veracity of what he told you, because you don’t know whether what he told you was a fact. Got it? Good.

So what can we conlcude from your little story? Well, for one thing we cannot conclude that there are al-Qaida goons running around Japan entering and exiting on false passports. There is no reliable evidence for a thinking person to accept that.

What we can conclude are the following possibilities:
(a) you have strange friends who associate with al-Qaida goons.
(b) you have strange friends who make up shit so that their butterfly club sounds exciting.
(c) you are simply full of shit.

[Greji]

(c) you are simply full of shit.

Reference your answer (c). I gotta friend, whose friend knows a guy that was told by another guy who heard first hand that Hato baby is indeed fully invested with shit.

[Mulboyne]