Ainu To Be Recognized As Indigenous People

[hundefar]

Thats a nice regurgitation of one of the standard excuses for imperialism.

When these tribes have wars with "each other" their cultures aren't destroyed and forgotten. When they are invaded by an outside force, be it ancient kingdom or modern investors, culture, language and identity are often the first things to go.

As for some groups keeping slaves... well, life's a bitch innit?

Holy strawman, Robin! I did not make an excuse for anything. I just said that it happens between "primitive" peoples as well. How that is an excuse for anything, I do not know.

Also, you are making a classic mistake, in that you view these cultures as homogenous. That is absurd. There are huge differences between the cultures of tribes themselves, be it in Africa, Brazil, Australia or what have you. And yes, they have actually often destroyed each others cultures, forbidden local languages and so on. Another tribe is not an "inside force", they do not necessarily share cultural and linguistic traits. It can be as much an outside force as people arriving from the other side of the world.

Yes, life is a bitch. But I don't see that statement having any relevance for what we are discussing here, and the same goes for you remark about reparations.

[Torimaro]

not making an excuse? okay, ill take your word for it but it sounds like your saying because they did it we can too.
when you said "each other" i thought you meant within a confined area where the same culture was a war with each other. my mistake. I realize that cultures where destroyed before western powers expanded thats what i meant by "ancient kingdoms". that lifes a bitch thing was a joke. so was the other thing. I dont believe in smilies.


lets not fuck.

[hundefar]

not making an excuse? okay, ill take your word for it but it sounds like your saying because they did it we can too.

I didn't. My point was just that it wasn't an exclusive western thing. It wasn't about morality.

[Torimaro]

I didn't. My point was just that it wasn't an exclusive western thing. It wasn't about morality.

well then its kinda beside the point. theyre not really subjugating each other any more are they? maybe those that adopt new technologies introduced by western society are displacing those that dont adopt those things but thats kind of indirect imperialism.

[hundefar]

theyre not really subjugating each other any more are they?

You mean tribal societies? They are actually. Some places there are still tribal wars going on. It is not more than a few weeks ago I read an article about warring tribes in Brazil for instance.

I don't really buy that "indirect imperialism" claim. It seems a bit far fetched. Is using paper Chinese imperialism? Pizza is Italian imperialism? You can see how it will quickly lead to absurdity.

[Torimaro]

very interesting. two completely separate tribal cultures with different languages customs food sources and general ways of life at war in brasil? thats what i dont buy (their differences). you dont buy previously tribal groups adopting modern technologies that enable them to make money by selling stuff to the west and displace their neighbors? i think we shop at different combinis.

its funny you should mention italians and pizza...

http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21228&page=4

[hundefar]

very interesting. two completely separate tribal cultures with different languages customs food sources and general ways of life at war in brasil? thats what i dont buy (their differences). you dont buy previously tribal groups adopting modern technologies that enable them to make money by selling stuff to the west and displace their neighbors? i think we shop at different combinis.

its funny you should mention italians and pizza...

http://www.fuckedgaijin.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21228&page=4

I don't know how to define "completely" different in this context (or in any other for that matter. As a student of anthropology I think that is a very complex matter). I am just saying that it is still happening. If you would find these tribes different enough I really can't tell. But there are different cultures and different languages among Brazilian tribes.

I think that people adapt by whatever means is working best. I really don't see that as imperialism. If you really want to view using technology from another place in the world as imperialism, then you are free to do so. However, as I said before, this will lead to absurd conclusions, so I can't really buy into your argument. People do not exist in a vacuum, so we influence each other. Tribes in whereever that find technology useful is not victims of imperialism because of that. They use whatever serves them best, just like every one else. I guess that if I start playing the pan flute and wearing a poncho, by your definition I would be a victim of indirect Peruvian imperialism.

Anyway, I find all this rather silly, and can't really follow your reasoning at all, I'm afraid.

[Torimaro]

imperialism is the wrong word for what im talking about and i regret using it. of course people adapt using new and introduced technology but that initial influence leads to expanded influence so that even without a war or invasion cultures become watered down languages change and trades and skills are no longer seen as desirable things to learn, people move to urban centers and eventually you students of anthropology will be left studying each others droppings.

I know tribes in the amazon speak different languages and have different cultures i was doubting whether the ones you mentioned as being at war do.

if i see you playing a pan flute and wearing a poncho i will break the cds your selling piss on your beatbox and call you a dirty hippy. yes, this is all silly... very silly.

[hundefar]

imperialism is the wrong word for what im talking about and i regret using it. of course people adapt using new and introduced technology but that initial influence leads to expanded influence so that even without a war or invasion cultures become watered down languages change and trades and skills are no longer seen as desirable things to learn, people move to urban centers and eventually you students of anthropology will be left studying each others droppings.

I know tribes in the amazon speak different languages and have different cultures i was doubting whether the ones you mentioned as being at war do.

if i see you playing a pan flute and wearing a poncho i will break the cds your selling piss on your beatbox and call you a dirty hippy. yes, this is all silly... very silly.

Actually most modern anthropologists work with product development and other business related stuff. But of course, if Anthropology hadn't developed since the sixties, you'd be right.

We do agree on what to with poncho wearing flute players, though.

[Torimaro]

word.
can we fuck now?

[hundefar]

word.
can we fuck now?

I thought you'd never ask!