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Mulboyne wrote:Not necessarily. The only "winner" would be someone who invested with Madoff and cashed in their investment. There may be some in that category but it seems that most investors kept their funds with Bernie and may even have increased them over time. Potential winners would be people who were paid introduction fees by Madoff, or management fees by investors they introduced to Madoff, provided they didn't have their own funds with the guy. Anyone in that position, however, is likely to find themselves sued. Indeed, lawyers are hunting high and low to find people who might have come out ahead in dealings with Madoff in order to put in a claim against them.
nottu wrote:Mulboyne is exactly wrong and everyone will find out as this fiasco proceeds. You used Bayou as an example with a look back of two years - which only reinforces the criminality of people like Madoff and associates. Going back two years will not get you to who you need to get to. Are you aware of how far back they will be able and allowed to go?
Lets see the time line and the names.
nottu wrote:Its not the amount, its the charges.
Disgraced money manager Bernard Madoff's suspected $50 billion fraud scheme looks set to burn even those who pulled their investments out long before the scandal rippled into the global financial system. Such investors may have counted themselves fortunate, withdrawing their money years ago to buy a house or to pay for a daughter's education, and may have even sighed with relief because they ended ties with Madoff long before the scandal erupted late last week. But they, too, could face trouble, lawyers say. Because of a legal concept known as "fraudulent conveyance," they could be forced to return their profits and even some of their initial investments to help offset losses incurred by others entangled in the long-running Ponzi scheme..."There were no profits. It was just other people's money," said Brad Alford, who runs investment adviser Alpha Capital Management LLC in Atlanta. Alford is well versed in fraudulent conveyance after one of his clients withdrew money from a $450 million scheme by Connecticut hedge-fund company Bayou Group LLC a year before it collapsed in scandal. "We ended up settling with the estate, giving back all the profits and half of our principal"...Philip Bentley, a lawyer at Kramer, Levin, Naftalis & Frankel LLP, who defended investors sued in 2006 by lawyers representing the Bayou estate, said he expected the court-appointed trustee now in control of Madoff's U.S. operations to look hard at who withdrew money from Madoff. "The trustee is going to look very closely at redemptions and seriously consider bringing suits just because the trustee's job is to bring in assets any way he can," Bentley said. "Potentially the numbers are enormous"...Alford said he expects several types of lawsuits, including one focused on fraudulent conveyance and another against so-called feeder funds, or hedge funds set up by outside investment advisory firms that marketed Madoff's investments to high net-worth individuals and pension funds. And he expects a third group of lawsuits to focus on litigation against advisers for entrusting 50 to 100 percent of their money with one manager. He said this could defy the "prudent man rule" that enjoins money managers to handle investors' money as they would their own. "I think the lawsuits are going to be staggering. This is going to go on for years and years," he said...more...
You're sounding like one. Why don't you do all the proper research, then report back to us?nottu wrote:.. Are you a "journalist"?
nottu wrote:Mulboyne - you're as deceitful as the media is with this. In your paraphrasing quote, you carefully cut out what the article mentions but does not go into detail on - the same question I posed to Omae earlier -
How far legally you are allowed to go back? The answer is max 6 years, maybe less at the discretion of the court.
nottu wrote:Mulboyne - you're as deceitful as the media is with this.
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