Japan PM says nation should embrace migrants

[Taka-Okami]

Who cares how the Japanese think of themselves & others. If gaijin dont like it there, then fuck off. Same goes for where I am. If foreign people go around complaining about this and that, then they can FUCK OFF.

Personally I love Japan, and the Japanese. I've NEVER had any trouble, is safe & clean etc. So much so, I'm preping to head back on a perm basis.

[BO-SENSEI]

In that case, we should give the US back to the Native Americans, send the Asians, Italians, Blacks and Germans back. Oh, and the Irish too.
How about Japan giving back Okinawa or Australia to the Aborigines? I mean, since it was there land, it shouldn't matter..in reality.

If Okinawa is going to be given to anyone its the Okinawans, it is as much a part of Japan as Hawaii is a part of America. Personally I dislike any comment about giving land back to the people, when is the deadline for who is supposed to live in where, just because my ancestors took a boat and Native American ancestors walked there, does it mean they have more of a right to be there? Humans naturally migrate, we have been doing it ever since we learned to walk on two feet. The only difference now is that we chase jobs and opportunity not heards of mammoths or buffalo.

[Samurai_Jerk]

The only difference now is that we chase jobs and opportunity not heards of mammoths or buffalo.

Unless you're AO. He still chases large hairy beasts.

[Christoff]

If Okinawa is going to be given to anyone its the Okinawans, it is as much a part of Japan as Hawaii is a part of America.

I actually think both parties my be willing to trade. Hawaii for Okinawa. It seems that there was a trade off after WWII, japan got hawaii and america got okinawa

[xenomorph42]

Who cares how the Japanese think of themselves & others. If gaijin dont like it there, then fuck off. Same goes for where I am. If foreign people go around complaining about this and that, then they can FUCK OFF.

Personally I love Japan, and the Japanese. I've NEVER had any trouble, is safe & clean etc. So much so, I'm preping to head back on a perm basis.

Good for you!

[xenomorph42]

I actually think both parties my be willing to trade. Hawaii for Okinawa. It seems that there was a trade off after WWII, japan got hawaii and america got okinawa

I would love to trade Hawaii with Canada. Hey, they got oil and the Molsen is really good too. Besides, I might finally get a good deal on Maple syrup!!

[Christoff]

if you have ever been to the sirup producing of canada, you would know there is no deal there. pints a pints a pint...

[Greji]

If Okinawa is going to be given to anyone its the Okinawans

When we were in the process of preparing for the reversion of Okinawa to Japan in 1969 and 1970, there was a very large sector of the Okinawan population that did not wish to be "returned to Japan." The consensus at that time seemed to be that they were satisfied as an American Protectorate until such time as they could become an independent country retaining their previous name of the Ryukyu Islands (formerly the Kingdom thereof).

There are those in Okinawa who favor that to this day....

[Christoff]

im sure formosa feels the same

[Mike Oxlong]

When we were in the process of preparing for the reversion of Okinawa to Japan in 1969 and 1970, there was a very large sector of the Okinawan population that did not wish to be "returned to Japan." The consensus at that time seemed to be that they were satisfied as an American Protectorate until such time as they could become an independent country retaining their previous name of the Ryukyu Islands (formerly the Kingdom thereof).

There are those in Okinawa who favor that to this day....

Cool, as an insider, did you witness any of cases of the US using Ryukyu nationalism to promote all things Okinawan, and further drive a wedge between the former possession and the Japanese government?

[Greji]

Cool, as an insider, did you witness any of cases of the US using Ryukyu nationalism to promote all things Okinawan, and further drive a wedge between the former possession and the Japanese government?

What would be the merit for the US or any Western power to do that? We're talking Okinawa here.

People have made that insinuation from time to time, but there was never more that the odd one or two fgs that really stressed the Ryukyu Nationalism. The revision and its practical application had so many intricate problems that such thinking would not even had time to come into play. Problems from the like of which side of the road to drive on, then changing the roads from left to right, on to realigning education to bring it in step with the J-education system, took so much time, that even if there was some merit it driving a wedge, there probably wouldn't have been time to implement such a plan. Actually, the Japanese have since done that nicely by themselves.

[Christoff]

Cool, as an insider, did you witness any of cases of the US using Ryukyu nationalism to promote all things Okinawan, and further drive a wedge between the former possession and the Japanese government?

yes did you whiteness any of the gun boat diplomacy by Commodore Matthew C. Perry and his Black Shipsof the 1800's? please give us a first hand account...

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

yes did you whiteness any of the gun boat diplomacy by Commodore Matthew C. Perry and his Black Shipsof the 1800's? please give us a first hand account...

Mate, he interpreted for them.
Francis Xavier was the first Caucasian priest to arrive in Japan, back in 1547....ever wondered why Japanese pictures of Xavier always have him surrounded by animals?
That's how long Greji has been hanging around these parts....

[Christoff]

LMAO

I predict you will be depicted a tom cruz move some day

[Mike Oxlong]

What would be the merit for the US or any Western power to do that? We're talking Okinawa here.

People have made that insinuation from time to time, but there was never more that the odd one or two fgs that really stressed the Ryukyu Nationalism. The revision and its practical application had so many intricate problems that such thinking would not even had time to come into play. Problems from the like of which side of the road to drive on, then changing the roads from left to right, on to realigning education to bring it in step with the J-education system, took so much time, that even if there was some merit it driving a wedge, there probably wouldn't have been time to implement such a plan. Actually, the Japanese have since done that nicely by themselves.

I see. Thanks. I was thinking more along the lines of from the beginning of the US occupation in 1945, with the possible goal of not having to worry about a reversion, as the locals would be either happier as a US protectorate, or focused on the likely unachievable goal of independence again. On a related note, is this where you first got into hiija?:wink:

[Greji]

[Mike Oxlong]

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

[Greji]

I betcha they don't eat 'em in the same way old Grej does....

Damn, I'm getting hard again......

[Screwed-down Hairdo]

Damn, I'm getting hard again......

Horny?

[Bucky]

Good Luck:

Migrants in Japan face discrimination, exploitation and other forms of mistreatment, an independent United Nations human rights expert said, urging the Japanese Government to strengthen their protection.

"Racism and discrimination based on nationality are still too common in Japan, including in the workplace, in schools, in healthcare establishments and housing," he added.

Existing general provisions are not effective in protecting foreign residents from discrimination based on race and nationality, he said.

Bustamante expressed concern about the policy of detaining irregular migrants, including asylum-seekers, parents and children, for prolonged periods, in some cases for as long as three years, saying that practice amounted to a "de facto indefinite detention."

[BO-SENSEI]

Anyone want to venture a guess at how many times the UN is going to tell Japan this kind of thing before the Japanese government gives an acceptable response, other than the BS "Japan doesn't have a racism problem" response they usually give?

[Yokohammer]

Anyone want to venture a guess at how many times the UN is going to tell Japan this kind of thing before the Japanese government gives an acceptable response, other than the BS "Japan doesn't have a racism problem" response they usually give?

The scary thing is that so many Japanese actually believe that there is no racism in Japan, despite the fact that foreigners, even born-in-Japan foreigners, are treated "differently" in so many areas. I think the real problem is that they don't understand what racism and discrimination are, simply because they're never taught. So many corporate, financial, and legal policies are discriminatory, and when asked the people responsible will say something like "Well yes, Japanese are treated this way and foreigners are treated that way, but it's not discrimination!" So they really, really don't get it.

Sort of like the "I don't want to sound racist, but ..." comments we hear from time to time.

And yet they scream like stuck pigs when the shoe is on the other foot. Many (and I really mean "many") of my Japanese acquaintances have come back from trips to Oz or the US or GB whining and complaining about racist comments or discrimination they received on their travels, but when questioned further very few of the stories actually sound like discrimination at all. One guy was incensed that a taxi driver had said "Thanks fox" to him after dropping him off at his destination, saying "fox is some kind of racial slur, isn't it!" It was clear that the driver had simply said "thanks folks," but nothing I could say would convince him that he hadn't been been the victim of a racial epithet.

So given how sensitive they are to even hints of discrimination against themselves, I'm very surprised and disappointed that they don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that other people might feel the same way.

Of course that doesn't apply to everyone here, but I really have heard lots of stories like this, right from the horse's mouth.

One again, the only conclusion I can come to is that they simply don't get it, and that it's an education problem. If that's the case it's going to take a while to sort out.

[wuchan]

The scary thing is that so many Japanese actually believe that there is no racism in Japan, despite the fact that foreigners, even born-in-Japan foreigners, are treated "differently" in so many areas. I think the real problem is that they don't understand what racism and discrimination are, simply because they're never taught. So many corporate, financial, and legal policies are discriminatory, and when asked the people responsible will say something like "Well yes, Japanese are treated this way and foreigners are treated that way, but it's not discrimination!" So they really, really don't get it.

Sort of like the "I don't want to sound racist, but ..." comments we hear from time to time.

And yet they scream like stuck pigs when the shoe is on the other foot. Many (and I really mean "many") of my Japanese acquaintances have come back from trips to Oz or the US or GB whining and complaining about racist comments or discrimination they received on their travels, but when questioned further very few of the stories actually sound like discrimination at all. One guy was incensed that a taxi driver had said "Thanks fox" to him after dropping him off at his destination, saying "fox is some kind of racial slur, isn't it!" It was clear that the driver had simply said "thanks folks," but nothing I could say would convince him that he hadn't been been the victim of a racial epithet.

So given how sensitive they are to even hints of discrimination against themselves, I'm very surprised and disappointed that they don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that other people might feel the same way.

Of course that doesn't apply to everyone here, but I really have heard lots of stories like this, right from the horse's mouth.

One again, the only conclusion I can come to is that they simply don't get it, and that it's an education problem. If that's the case it's going to take a while to sort out.

exactly. When you try to tell them about your experiences in japan they say "It's because you're not Japanese!".

[Catoneinutica]

The scary thing is that so many Japanese actually believe that there is no racism in Japan, despite the fact that foreigners, even born-in-Japan foreigners, are treated "differently" in so many areas. I think the real problem is that they don't understand what racism and discrimination are, simply because they're never taught. So many corporate, financial, and legal policies are discriminatory, and when asked the people responsible will say something like "Well yes, Japanese are treated this way and foreigners are treated that way, but it's not discrimination!" So they really, really don't get it.

Sort of like the "I don't want to sound racist, but ..." comments we hear from time to time.

And yet they scream like stuck pigs when the shoe is on the other foot. Many (and I really mean "many") of my Japanese acquaintances have come back from trips to Oz or the US or GB whining and complaining about racist comments or discrimination they received on their travels, but when questioned further very few of the stories actually sound like discrimination at all. One guy was incensed that a taxi driver had said "Thanks fox" to him after dropping him off at his destination, saying "fox is some kind of racial slur, isn't it!" It was clear that the driver had simply said "thanks folks," but nothing I could say would convince him that he hadn't been been the victim of a racial epithet.

So given how sensitive they are to even hints of discrimination against themselves, I'm very surprised and disappointed that they don't seem to be able to grasp the fact that other people might feel the same way.

Of course that doesn't apply to everyone here, but I really have heard lots of stories like this, right from the horse's mouth.

One again, the only conclusion I can come to is that they simply don't get it, and that it's an education problem. If that's the case it's going to take a while to sort out.

+1. This really is a nation of autisitics. The only positive trend I can see is the emergence of an Overseas Chinese community here.

-catone
-and Big Momma next door to ensure that the nihonjin don't get all 1923 on their asses.

[nottu]

[Ganma]

And yet they scream like stuck pigs when the shoe is on the other foot. Many (and I really mean "many") of my Japanese acquaintances have come back from trips to Oz or the US or GB whining and complaining about racist comments or discrimination they received on their travels, but when questioned further very few of the stories actually sound like discrimination at all.

One of my students was telling me about NZ South Island being red-neck anti-foreigner country. Apparently, it is even written in some Japanese guidebook he had. Despite the fact the guy had lived in NZ for a full year and hadn't experienced any racism he still believed it based on hearsay from one of his friends experience. ...and he wasn't having any of it when I started telling him how foreigners are treated in Japan. Talk about hypocrisy.

The problem with racism in Japan is that it's institutionalized. I've never had any problems with ordinary people here. In NZ as I guess in other western nations there is racism, it's just not institutionalized, so you have a way to fight it if need be.

[Yokohammer]

This is why they need enlightened FGs to pity their poor souls with Western education and neurosis. They desperately need to understand that race and discrimination are evil - they need the modern religion - like only a neurotic FG can give them.
And low and behold - here you are - ready and willing for the missionary work - sacrificing the fulfilling life you could have in the West for this noble duty.
One day they will be eternally thankful and rename Kagoshima - Cleveland.

Nottu, some of us have to be here ... for a variety of reasons. Some of us were brought here at a very young age, and some of us were born here. For some of us it just doesn't make sense to "go home," thus Japan has become our home. We didn't come here to proselytize, but we do have an interest in making our adopted home as comfortable as possible. We find that even though we are accepted superficially, in the form of permanent residence or even citizenship, we are marginalized in a number of ways that prevent us from settling and participating in the society as equals. The deeper you go, the more obstacles you face. Someone who is just here "with the company," skidding over the surface of the society and not intending to settle, may never even notice it. In fact some find the dissociation comforting, which is fine. But any NJ with even marginal observational skills who decides/needs to settle here for the long haul will have to be prepared to face frustration and even some humiliation, especially in institutional dealings. Until things change, that is. And that change is most definitely worth hoping and fighting for, at least for the terminal crowd.

So save the sarcasm, please. You're missing the bigger picture.

[nottu]

[Yokohammer]

... So now, without sarcasm ...

Fair enough. Let's see if I can explain my point of view a bit better.

First of all, I'm not trying to turn Kagoshima into Cleveland, or the equivalent. And I'm about as non-religious as it gets. Anti-religious, even. I'm perfectly happy to allow Japan to be Japan, but basic human rights go beyond culture, and that's where there is a problem.

Japan needs to accept outsiders for its own future, and knows it, but is doing so in a reluctantly half-assed, almost two-faced way. Oddly enough, and as someone else mentioned, life at ground level in the average Japanese community is actually pretty OK. It's when you need to get something done "officially" that you discover that you're really not welcome. And it is those official obstacles that are the pea under the mattress, making it almost impossible to get really comfortable without getting a lobotomy. Looks like a mattress to the casual observer, but just try to get a good night's sleep.

So why stay? You say you were married. I assume that means you were married to a Japanese national, but the marriage failed. That happens a lot, to be sure, but some of those types of marriages actually work out OK and endure. So, suppose a foreigner who has been here for 30 or 40 years is in a satisfactory relationship with a Japanese woman, and realizes that at this stage of the game it would be better for his partner's well being and happiness to stay in Japan. Would it be right for him to just "cut out" and drag her into a situation where she doesn't have any friends, family, or even a working knowledge of the language? The foreigner has been in Japan long enough that he has a much better chance of getting by in Japan than his wife does in his home country, even if that country is one of the "advanced" ones that immigrants flock to. At the same time the foreigner has been here so long that he may not have any family or friends of his own to go home to.

Then there's financial survival. Suppose that same foreigner has been running a business for the past 30 years or so, and that business has been the sole source of income that feeds and houses his family. Most legitimate businesses depend on a client base, and that only comes through years of work and trust building. How easy do you think it would be for someone in their 50's or 60's, say, to go back to their home country and start over?

There are many other variations on the above scenarios that do translate into a "lockdown" of sorts. Many of the kids I went to high-school with here in the 60's and 70's are in similar situations. So yes, my assertion that some foreigners have to stay in their adopted country does make sense to me.