The Myth of Japan's Failure

[Taro Toporific]

Is Japan's Success of Myth?
huffingtonpost.com | 1/10/12
A respected Japan specialist, Eamonn Fingleton, wrote an interesting piece in the New York Times the other day.
While I do not disagree with many of his points, I think he has missed some very relevant issues in his overly optimistic assertion pertaining to Japan's future.
Take his view on life expectancy. Mr. Fingleton points to a longer life expectancy for Japanese than Americans as a sign that Japanese have a better quality of life than Americans, but he does not touch on important peripheral issues very much connected to lifestyle and happiness. Take, for instance, the financial and physical costs of work absenteeism and presenteeism related to chronic pain and mental illness in workplace in Japan. The American Chamber of Commerce in Japan estimates this costs the Japanese economy at least 3.3 trillion yen a year. Indeed, some firms take advantage of their workers by maintaining vague job descriptions, thereby piling on more and more tasks which can lead to mental anguish. This is often tolerated by workers who prefer to avoid conflict in order to maintain harmony, two cultural mainstays that work in the employer's favor.
As to the point in his piece that Japan's unemployment rate is lower than that of the United States, Japan counts self-employed in official statistics and persons who work as little as one hour per week are considered employed in Japan...more...

[Samurai_Jerk]

USD109

And if you think that's a flexible policy that anyone can use at any hospital anytime I've got a bridge to sell you.

[6810]

i dont want to hear that stress caused my rib to get cracked, i dont want no fucking powder medicine that my 3 year old gets, and i sure as fuck dont want to run into the ER with my son and hear that the Dr. is on vacation and no one else at the hospital is qualified to see him (Hiroo Metro Hospital)...

People bitch about the US hospitals and letting people bleed out on the floor because they aren't insured... well... dont be a cheap ass and get covered. when you are fucked up (and insured), they will fix you.

Maybe you need to change up your doctors/hospitals. Where I live there are good and bad and time has revealed the best in the area. Same thing when I was back in gaikoku, plenty of mediocre doctors, a few quacks and some bloody gems... finding those last ones is hard.

[6810]

Is Japan's Success of Myth?
huffingtonpost.com | 1/10/12
A respected Japan specialist, Eamonn Fingleton, wrote an interesting piece in the New York Times the other day.
While I do not disagree with many of his points, I think he has missed some very relevant issues in his overly optimistic assertion pertaining to Japan's future.
Take his view on life expectancy. Mr. Fingleton points to a longer life expectancy for Japanese than Americans as a sign that Japanese have a better quality of life than Americans, but he does not touch on important peripheral issues very much connected to lifestyle and happiness. Take, for instance, the financial and physical costs of work absenteeism and presenteeism related to chronic pain and mental illness in workplace in Japan. The American Chamber of Commerce in Japan estimates this costs the Japanese economy at least 3.3 trillion yen a year. Indeed, some firms take advantage of their workers by maintaining vague job descriptions, thereby piling on more and more tasks which can lead to mental anguish. This is often tolerated by workers who prefer to avoid conflict in order to maintain harmony, two cultural mainstays that work in the employer's favor.
As to the point in his piece that Japan's unemployment rate is lower than that of the United States, Japan counts self-employed in official statistics and persons who work as little as one hour per week are considered employed in Japan...more...

Yes... another one of those analyses in which the journalist's host culture chauvinism is on display... All I know is that around my city I don't get panhandled, there ain't trash (people and literally) all over the place, virtually no violent crime, people are motivated and have a sense of purpose... been to Baltimore, Chicago, Detroit, Philadelphia, all of West Virginia, most of the rest of the rust and bible belts in the New World recently? Fuck meth, fuck violent street crime and fuck the totally cruel wealth disparity (sheeeyat bitches, I know there's disparity here too, but the scale/magnitude just ain't the same).

[Mike Oxlong]

Japan's Lost Decade: All Too Real

I think this article does a good job of recognizing that Japan has some serious economic issues, while also recognizing that it copes in different - and some would say better - ways.

[Coligny]

Maybe you need to change up your doctors/hospitals. Where I live there are good and bad and time has revealed the best in the area. Same thing when I was back in gaikoku, plenty of mediocre doctors, a few quacks and some bloody gems... finding those last ones is hard.

Default to the vets... have yet to see a bad one here...

[legion]

Is Japan's Success of Myth?
Indeed, some firms take advantage of their workers by maintaining vague job descriptions, thereby piling on more and more tasks which can lead to mental anguish.

that reminds me of someone .......urrr me

I liked the article taking a contrarian view to the usual Japan is doomed line, people have been writing off Japan for years, but it still grinds on. If you want a basket case look at Europe, the UK in particular, overweight people in debt glued to the X Factor and Strictly Come Dancing. Dante's Inferno looks mild in comparison to the streets of the average English Town at 11PM on a Saturday night.

And don't forget that Japan takes typhoons, earthquakes, landslides, tidal waves and nuclear meltdowns in its stride, don't know about everyone else but the company I work for came out of 2011 slightly ahead of where we were in 2010, despite the disaster.

So we can easily point fingers and pull out numbers, but at the end of the day the Japanese are tough & smart enough to learn from both their mistakes and everything the planet throws at them.

[matsuki]

Default to the vets... have yet to see a bad one here...

They get paid better too...

[Jack]

jack, you dont live here now right? i think its easy to hype up your thinking about japan when youre not in the middle of it, seeing just how ghetto so many of lifestyles are here. i guess its all relative too, maybe everyone in your town in canada or wherever are super ghetto

That's right I don't live there. But I have a good ability to look at things in an objective way. I look at statistics and trust what I see. Not what others say. I know what questions to ask and I know what statistics to look for. So there's no point in arguing with those who don't know what to look for. You start nitpicking chicken shit and the whole argument gets hijacked.

I'm looking at a white peach priced at 1,000 yen and I see afluance. Someone else sees the same thing and goes "wow, Japan is expensive".

[Dreamy_Peach]

Legion
I liked the article taking a contrarian view to the usual Japan is doomed line, people have been writing off Japan for years, but it still grinds on.

I agree. It's refreshing for someone to take a different view on Japan.

Unfortunately, I don't think the author, Eamonn Fingleton, is up to the job. To me he comes across as someone who has stepped off the plane, went to his hotel in Ginza, and not seen or explored too much.

I saw a presentation recently which provided modest grounds for optimism, based on alignment with Asian economic growth, capital investments, service sector developments etc.

http://www.dijtokyo.org/doc/DIJ-Forum_111201.pdf

Policy remains a drag. It says a lot.

There have been a few presentations like this lately. I think some long term Japan experts are getting tired of all the pessimism and want to fight back with a positive story - it would be nice.

[gaijinpunch]

I agree. It's refreshing for someone to take a different view on Japan.

It's refreshing if it makes sense... this leaned slightly more to fiction. The line about the Japanese government accepting it's demographic fate is just bullshit. Some of the other stuff... I just didn't agree with.

People can bitch and moan about capitalism all they want, but liquidity in local markets is key for a lot of reasons. A healthy financial sector brings in high paying jobs, which fill expensive rents (business and individual alike), and even bring in lower paying jobs across the board. If you work in finance in Japan and are looking for a job, you know how dire it is. Tumbleweeds... all over the place.

But, like I said before in this thread, it's more about what are they doing now to combat the foreseeable problems of the future. The answer: not enough, and very few people will argue with that.

[Coligny]

People can bitch and moan about capitalism all they want, but liquidity in local markets is key for a lot of reasons. A healthy financial sector brings in high paying jobs, which fill expensive rents (business and individual alike), and even bring in lower paying jobs across the board.

Hey... I heard aboot this one... Trickles down economics right ?

[maraboutslim]

USD109

That was for a plan with a $900 deductible and after that only pays 60% of the bill.

For real insurance in the san francisco bay area, a full coverage HMO plan (Kaiser) with small copays for visits and no deductible is about $650 for individual, $1300 for couple, and about $1800 for full family.

[Samurai_Jerk]

That was for a plan with a $900 deductible and after that only pays 60% of the bill.

For real insurance in the san francisco bay area, a full coverage HMO plan (Kaiser) with small copays for visits and no deductible is about $650 for individual, $1300 for couple, and about $1800 for full family.

Exactly. And that plan still won't cover preexisting conditions.

[IparryU]

That was for a plan with a $900 deductible and after that only pays 60% of the bill.

For real insurance in the san francisco bay area, a full coverage HMO plan (Kaiser) with small copays for visits and no deductible is about $650 for individual, $1300 for couple, and about $1800 for full family.

i wanted to get a kaiser quote but they email it to you and i didnt feel like filling out the online form for shits and giggles.

Exactly. And that plan still won't cover preexisting conditions.

ya that really sucks.

[Mike Oxlong]

[rooboy]

Things aint so cut and dried, it's relative. If you're a Yank like Taro and others here the J National health insurance is a fucking good deal. If you're an Aussie like me or a Canadian who is single it's a kinda shitty deal.

I can get private medical insurance in Oz that covers a private room, most of surgery etc all for around the same as what I pay for NHI in Japan which covers a room with ojis, means I have to bring just about everything, and believe me the whole staff service and state of the art tech and doctors' knowledge, patient interaction etc is inferior to that in Oz under private health insurance.

Again Aussies bitch about how much private health insurance costs and many who could afford private insurance but want to spend their money on buying shit and drinking prefer to be on public medical care and waiting lists - which they then bitch about. But if NHI payments are about the same as private health coverage in Oz (which they are), then how come I can afford to pay NHI with its comparitively crappy benefits and they can't pay for private in Oz?:confused:

It all comes back to a strong point of J society - the savings rate and the willingness to be responsible for their own money. Welfare states like Australia and the UK are better than the US for keeping crime down and making sure people don't live in hovels and aint drug dealing on a significant level but they also breed a fucked sense of entitlement.

When you genuinely need the dole it's good but so many Aussies and newcomers who invited themselves now think that it's some natural law or God-given right that they live off people who are paying 40 plus percent of their income on an average salary in tax to keep others who go through money like a knife thru butter in their sponging habits. Aussies have never saved much for the last 30 yrs or so, even on decent incomes, cause there's the mentality that there's welfare money for you even when you're fucking irresponsible and waste it.

All the economic refugees and migrants from countries where the dole per week amounts to much bigger money in their home countries have landed in the country of endless largesse - just hold out your hands and you don't have to do shit like volunteer work or anything else. Just keep soaking up the money that somebody has to give up on an average salary for you.

Japan's got its homeless and its unemployed and yeah, they're fudging the stats there. But at least it doesn't have that idea that money is coming from an endless supply which magically appears and is disconnected from the reality of a pool of over-taxed ordinary income earners. Japanese savings rates are a great feature of this society - it doesn't have the idea that somebody has to always supply you with something when you want it but haven't done jackshit for.

But as for the affluent lifestyle - yeah, right. You can play golf really cheaply on beautiful grass courses in Oz and if you want to join a club the fees for all but the most elite are normally below that of the usual golf club in Japan. Some housing is well constructed and insulated in Japan but the norm is shitty construction and terrible cold in winter and heat in summer. The narrow roads and lack of maintenance while bridges built to nowhere proliferate speak for themselves. Education at all levels is way too expensive.

[gaijinpunch]

Hey... I heard aboot this one... Trickles down economics right ?

I actually used the word on purpose. Fortunately, the losses do trickle down, just not all the way. If you don't believe me, take a look at medium-end rent in Tokyo for the last 10 years.

[Coligny]

It all comes back to a strong point of J society - the savings rate and the willingness to be responsible for their own money. Welfare states like Australia and the UK are better than the US for keeping crime down and making sure people don't live in hovels and aint drug dealing on a significant level but they also breed a fucked sense of entitlement.

I'm not even sure of that...

[Mulboyne]

There have been a few counters to Fingleton but the best so far is on Spike Japan.

It looks into the random data points which Fingleton tries to use as growth proxies and find them to be either inaccurate or unrelated to growth.

[IparryU]

I'm not even sure of that...

me neither, but I do agree about the drug dealin bit he went off on... now since weed is basically legal... narcotics and guns have been "the thing to sell"... pot dealers lost their job or got a huge pay cut... they need something else to slang to make that money now...

[Mulboyne]

If you don't care for Spike Japan's aggressive tone, here's a more measured response to Fingleton.

[IparryU]

If you don't care for Spike Japan's aggressive tone, here's a more measured response to Fingleton.

Good read. Nice to see numbers put to the circumstance rather than plain statistic...

[Yokohammer]

[maraboutslim]

If this guy considers Fukushima to have been a "foreseeable crisis," I hope his next article is a warning about all the other foreseeable crisis we should be preparing for now.

[Coligny]

If this guy considers Fukushima to have been a "foreseeable crisis," I hope his next article is a warning about all the other foreseeable crisis we should be preparing for now.

You really want to go back there ? Or a picture of the Daiichi seaside resort (pre-march) will suffice ?

Also, I advise you to read "we nearly lost Detroit" good stuff...

[matsuki]

You really want to go back there ? Or a picture of the Daiichi seaside resort (pre-march) will suffice ?

Also, I advise you to read "we nearly lost Detroit" good stuff...

Met with a friend last night who is from Fukushima. Father was some sort of ship inspector or something like that. D00d survived 3-11 only to die from a heart attack in the weeks following (Japanese slave labor type work hours where he couldn't sleep many days or go home during the week) which everyone thinks is stress related. House washed away, children all working in Tokyo, the Mama stuck in Fukushima trying to rebuild her life all alone. No $ from TEPCO, shit from the J-Gov, and insurance is shit so she's living with family further inland. If this isn't Japan's Failure, what is?

[IparryU]

Met with a friend last night who is from Fukushima. Father was some sort of ship inspector or something like that. D00d survived 3-11 only to die from a heart attack in the weeks following (Japanese slave labor type work hours where he couldn't sleep many days or go home during the week) which everyone thinks is stress related. House washed away, children all working in Tokyo, the Mama stuck in Fukushima trying to rebuild her life all alone. No $ from TEPCO, shit from the J-Gov, and insurance is shit so she's living with family further inland. If this isn't Japan's Failure, what is?

Failure? nope... that is just the Japanese way

[matsuki]

Failure? nope... that is just the Japanese way

"It can't be helped"

[matsuki]

I am not worried about my pension or health care in the future in Japan.
I think they can stay competitive and no-one knows yet what they will pull out of the bag when they decide to go seriously eco.
Be assured they will make the best energy products, pioneer medical advances for elderly care, and continue to be competitive on a global level

Only to have these products duplicated at much cheaper rates by Korea...and then there are the Chinese knock offs but those are pretty use at your own risk. No doubt there will be areas where Japan still succeeds in but they are getting far fewer. When I was back in the states for the holidaze, I had never seen so many Korean cars on the road before. New ones at that....and J-friends that have been to the US recently have commented the same. Electronics? Sure Sony/SHARP/etc are still there but Samsung and LG are gobbling up all their business with comparable products at much lower prices. Then there is still much to come as the result of 3/11 and the TEPCO drama...quite a bit of which will effect exports. There's the Yen value making Japanese exports either too expensive for other countries or unprofitable for the Japanese exporters. It's hard to have a positive view about Japan's future when even many Japanese recognize how bad things are becoming but see no way to effect change.

because as much as everyone loves to lambast the Japanese, the young today do speak English and Chinese - including a lot of returnees, "haafu", and foreign kids raised here.

Ehhh, "this is a pen" does not qualify as speaking Japanese. I can't really comment on the Chinese fluency but the only Japanese I know that is amazingly fluent in Chinese grew up in Beijing and while she detests China, the only reason she's remaining in Japan is because her father's health is failing. My impression is that most of the the young that can speak foreign languages at a decent level GTFO of Japan as soon as they can after experiencing life that is not "uniquely Japanese." I'm sure that are plenty of returnees, haafu, etc., but not nearly enough to fill the gaping hole to truly internationalize Japan. (and even if there were, how many times have we seen Japan being held back by retard status mindsets and the inability to think outside the box?)