No sushi for you

[Samurai_Jerk]

They may have fucked with the wrong guy. I've read a few different things in Japanese and Mo isn't just some bullshit "international" journalist. He's been in Japan for decades, used to be a Japanese professor in China, got his MA and PhD in Japan, and some articles have claimed he's a naturalized citizen of Japan. He's also hosted a show on NHK in the past and seems to be a bit of a social activist. Plus, it seems the restaurant has policy of trying to keep the number of foreign customers to 50% or less to maintain the atmosphere.

[matsuki]

given what a tiny tempest in a miniature teacup racial discrimination in Japan actually is I would argue that aggressive legislative remedies would only get them to hunker down. Since 0.5 of 10 people in Japan are Real Foreigners (no Zainichi, please) the incidences of it are so relatively miniscule it would be widely regarded as a pandering overreaction to a largely non-existent problem.

Even without a huge number of foreigners physically here, is it not worth prying open closed minds? Shimaguni and all, they're still on the same planet....sorta.

They may have fucked with the wrong guy. I've read a few different things in Japanese and Mo isn't just some bullshit "international" journalist. He's been in Japan for decades, used to be a Japanese professor in China, got his MA and PhD in Japan, and some articles have claimed he's a naturalized citizen of Japan. He's also hosted a show on NHK in the past and seems to be a bit of a social activist. Plus, it seems the restaurant has policy of trying to keep the number of foreign customers to 50% or less to maintain the atmosphere.

[kurogane]

Even without a huge number of foreigners physically here, is it not worth prying open closed minds? Shimaguni and all, they're still on the same planet....sorta.

Or IOW, On Principle !!!!!!!!!!!!! ???????? :doze:

When it gets to be a problem they'll deal with it, but it's at best even money on whether they do what you want. I could easily see a backlash and a surge in similar Japanese Only boondoggles, if that is what it be. And again, we agree in sentiment and in principle. I just don't care and don't think going Captain Amerika is the solution. In fact, I think my Schoolhouse Rock style PSA idea is a nice one, both coz Schoolhouse Rock is cool and because that's the sorta shiite they like. And it would let them use all those leftover stick on Pinocchio noses from the ANA ads.

They may have fucked with the wrong guy.

Totally. This is sooooooooooooo rock n roll now. I might have to go have a Google read.

Ｈｅｒｅ’ｓ　ａ　nice summary and some user friendly outrage.

http://www.nikkan-gendai.com/articles/view/news/159356

Great information mining there, SamJ. Sounds like he got done badly then. BTW, I was alarmed to hear they allow up to a 50% mix as well. Or did you mean that setting a limit was a bad thing?

BTW people, we aren't talking about SJ's and my Yuppy Foody friends when we use the code words Furryner Customers. HINT: rhymes with My Knees.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Seems like the outrage will spread for awhile...

https://www.facebook.com/TokyoCheapo?fref=nf

At least Tokyo Cheapo offers alternatives instead of just bitching about it.

I'm kinda 'eh' on the whole subject. It's just another version of the 'no gaijin' onsen policies. Japan is a mean kid who throws rocks at people for no reason, it's almost part of the charm.

Disappointed to hear that Jiro's turns foreigners away, especially since he was all too happy to take the dollah dollah to have a documentary made about his place.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Seems like the outrage will spread for awhile...

https://www.facebook.com/TokyoCheapo?fref=nf

At least Tokyo Cheapo offers alternatives instead of just bitching about it.

I'm kinda 'eh' on the whole subject. It's just another version of the 'no gaijin' onsen policies. Japan is a mean kid who throws rocks at people for no reason, it's almost part of the charm.

Disappointed to hear that Jiro's turns foreigners away, especially since he was all too happy to take the dollah dollah to have a documentary made about his place.

Is Jiro doing it too or did you just make a mistake because that article was about Mizutani?

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Seems like the outrage will spread for awhile...

https://www.facebook.com/TokyoCheapo?fref=nf

At least Tokyo Cheapo offers alternatives instead of just bitching about it.

I'm kinda 'eh' on the whole subject. It's just another version of the 'no gaijin' onsen policies. Japan is a mean kid who throws rocks at people for no reason, it's almost part of the charm.

Disappointed to hear that Jiro's turns foreigners away, especially since he was all too happy to take the dollah dollah to have a documentary made about his place.

Is Jiro doing it too or did you just make a mistake because that article was about Mizutani?

Somewhere else in the thread (or in one of the linked articles) it was mentioned that Jiro was also refusing foreigners.

edit: it's in the comments of the original linked article, citing that they do it because foreigners don't have the proficiency or patience to translate the menu. might be complete speculation though, but i can see it happening.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Seems like the outrage will spread for awhile...

https://www.facebook.com/TokyoCheapo?fref=nf

At least Tokyo Cheapo offers alternatives instead of just bitching about it.

I'm kinda 'eh' on the whole subject. It's just another version of the 'no gaijin' onsen policies. Japan is a mean kid who throws rocks at people for no reason, it's almost part of the charm.

Disappointed to hear that Jiro's turns foreigners away, especially since he was all too happy to take the dollah dollah to have a documentary made about his place.

Is Jiro doing it too or did you just make a mistake because that article was about Mizutani?

Somewhere else in the thread (or in one of the linked articles) it was mentioned that Jiro was also refusing foreigners.

edit: it's in the comments of the original linked article, citing that they do it because foreigners don't have the proficiency or patience to translate the menu. might be complete speculation though, but i can see it happening.

Their up-to-date English homepage seems to indicate otherwise but who knows?

If Mizutani would join the twentieth century and start accepting credit cards it wouldn't be a problem. I'm also not sure how using a hotel or credit card company concierge service would solve the problem. If I'm a no show, it's not like they're liable for the loss either.

[Yokohammer]

According to the grapevine the owner is just a bit of a stuck-up prick who also treats Japanese customers like shit if he doesn't like the cut of their jib. If you look around at the reviews (and I don't mean the tabelog reviews), a surprising number of reviewers are saying the sushi sucks too.

Looks like he might have had three stars a while back? Pretty soon he'll probably have none.

ざまぁみろ。

[Samurai_Jerk]

I know quite a few Japanese people who like sushi but don't like going to sushi-ya because the etamae are often stuck up pricks.

[Cyka UchuuJin]

Seems like the outrage will spread for awhile...

https://www.facebook.com/TokyoCheapo?fref=nf

At least Tokyo Cheapo offers alternatives instead of just bitching about it.

I'm kinda 'eh' on the whole subject. It's just another version of the 'no gaijin' onsen policies. Japan is a mean kid who throws rocks at people for no reason, it's almost part of the charm.

Disappointed to hear that Jiro's turns foreigners away, especially since he was all too happy to take the dollah dollah to have a documentary made about his place.

Is Jiro doing it too or did you just make a mistake because that article was about Mizutani?

Somewhere else in the thread (or in one of the linked articles) it was mentioned that Jiro was also refusing foreigners.

edit: it's in the comments of the original linked article, citing that they do it because foreigners don't have the proficiency or patience to translate the menu. might be complete speculation though, but i can see it happening.

Their up-to-date English homepage seems to indicate otherwise but who knows?

If Mizutani would join the twentieth century and start accepting credit cards it wouldn't be a problem. I'm also not sure how using a hotel or credit card company concierge service would solve the problem. If I'm a no show, it's not like they're liable for the loss either.

hotel conceirges rely a lot on their relationships with local eateries, especially in the day of trip advisor and other net review sites. a lot of reviews posted by guests will talk about their experiences outside of the hotel that the conceirge recommended. i am quite sure that if a restaurant tells a concierge booked reservation that they were a no-show, the hotel will compensate them in order to keep things on the up and up.

[Mike Oxlong]

I know quite a few Japanese people who like sushi but don't like going to sushi-ya because the etamae are often stuck up pricks.

Were you thinking about edamame while typing?

[Samurai_Jerk]

I know quite a few Japanese people who like sushi but don't like going to sushi-ya because the etamae are often stuck up pricks.

Were you thinking about edamame while typing?

No it was writing in proper English phonetics.

[Takechanpoo]

look at related 2ch thread.
you can find some bitchings about famous shukiyabashi jiro.
according to it, jiros jiji treats powerfull ppl, celebs with warm hospitality while he(they) openly treats strange general customers(of course its japanese) slightingly.

btw i once ate sushis in a moderately high-class place but frankly my tongue didnt distinguish between the taste of it and the one of franchised ones(shushiro, kura zushi etc). do you guys get the taste really eh?

[Yokohammer]

look at related 2ch thread.
you can find some bitchings about famous shukiyabashi jiro.
according to it, jiros jiji treats powerfull ppl, celebs with warm hospitality while he(they) openly treats strange general customers(of course its japanese) slightingly.

Mizutani seems to be the same type of guy. But now he's getting some deserved bad press. There's always a しっぺ返し for people like that.


~ Tapatalking ~

[kurogane]

Well put. I can actually see it going either way with the backlash, as there are people that will be attracted by his Yamato damashi and the prospect of Jpn Only. I, however, will not be spending any money at any such places and will strongly recommend anybody that asks does not either. If the cachet is that the customer has to please the owner I will not be pleasing anybody. I have been to more than a few Sushi and French crap places like that and will not be back. That Yuppy Striver masochism makes my teeth burn.

[Coligny]

I have been to more than a few Sushi and French crap places like that and will not be back. That Yuppy Striver masochism makes my teeth burn.

All the attitude and none of the good food... We got one like this here... Don't seem to understand the differencE between couscous, tajine and ratatouille... The other option being 'hamburg' aka crushed meat steak... Aka the stuff you feel guilty to buy for your dog...
But even eating at the counter was made to remove my cap...

[Samurai_Jerk]

I've never understood the appeal of being treated like crap by the staff at a restaurant either and especially not at a high-end place were you're easily dropping thirty or forty thousand yen for dinner. Part of the appeal of going to a fine restaurant is usually the amazing service that comes with the great food. There are a lot of super cheap shitamachi places that are the same though. I've been to a couple and I've noticed the mostly blue-collar regulars get off on knowing the rules. I think it makes them feel like they're part of the type of exclusive club they could never afford to join.

[kurogane]

There are a lot of super cheap shitamachi places that are the same though. I've been to a couple and I've noticed the mostly blue-collar regulars get off on knowing the rules. I think it makes them feel like they're part of the type of exclusive club they could never afford to join.

The clubbiness for sure, but also I think it gives that ilk a chance to piss rather than get pissed on. People like that always evoke Cliff Clavin from Cheers. Most of the pubs in your favourite ski resort Whistler are the same. I am not a huge fan of plebs in general, but I can sort of get it: they're not usually the most reflexive or enlightened sorts, and that seems to be the way their world works. All the construction work I ever did was like that. Nice enough but kinda cuntish guys in general. And touchy as a fat slow 8 year old momma's boy almost to a one; a lot like the Shitamachi boys you mentioned. What really dumbfounds me is how often very highly paid well educated professionals seem to crave that sense of clubbiness and exclusivity, not to mention the crappy abusive service.

Having said that, my mostest favouritest ever Yakiniku hole in the wall has that aspect to it, but the Kimchi is simply to die for. Maybe I just can't abide paying a lot for uncooked fish???? I do agree with what Takechan said above. Other than the ambience and the presentation I can rarely tell between what I considered overpriced Sushi and nicer middle rank stuff. I try not to eat at the chain places. Something about their prices just scream Thermometer Juice.

[matsuki]

There are a lot of super cheap shitamachi places that are the same though. I've been to a couple and I've noticed the mostly blue-collar regulars get off on knowing the rules. I think it makes them feel like they're part of the type of exclusive club they could never afford to join.

LOL, every time I go to one of those places it's the same thing...some kind ol jiji is happy to show me the ropes, so to speak. I don't know if was extreme boredom or the shimaguni complex but the superiority complex many J-people have about what's proper is pretty hilarious. If they don't do something the proper way, suddenly "they didn't have a proper upbringing" and get labelled a ダメ人間

[Samurai_Jerk]

The clubbiness for sure, but also I think it gives that ilk a chance to piss rather than get pissed on. People like that always evoke Cliff Clavin from Cheers. Most of the pubs in your favourite ski resort Whistler are the same. I am not a huge fan of plebs in general, but I can sort of get it: they're not usually the most reflexive or enlightened sorts, and that seems to be the way their world works. All the construction work I ever did was like that. Nice enough but kinda cuntish guys in general. And touchy as a fat slow 8 year old momma's boy almost to a one; a lot like the Shitamachi boys you mentioned. What really dumbfounds me is how often very highly paid well educated professionals seem to crave that sense of clubbiness and exclusivity, not to mention the crappy abusive service.

Having said that, my mostest favouritest ever Yakiniku hole in the wall has that aspect to it, but the Kimchi is simply to die for. Maybe I just can't abide paying a lot for uncooked fish???? I do agree with what Takechan said above. Other than the ambience and the presentation I can rarely tell between what I considered overpriced Sushi and nicer middle rank stuff. I try not to eat at the chain places. Something about their prices just scream Thermometer Juice.

I don't mind if they're a little soup naziish about the rules at the super cheap shitamachi places. They're providing really good food at razor thin margins. Their business model relies on high turnover so they can't waste time dealing with douchebags. However, there's a fine line between good natured ball breaking and being an asshole. There is a motsu-yaki place like that in Katsushika-ku that keeps me going back because it's so damn good and ridiculously cheap. Also, I can tell there's a bit of a nudge, nudge, wink, wink it's all an act to the whole thing. Now that they know me they're a lot less gruff but I took a Japanese friend a couple of moths ago and he was none too happy with their demeanor.

You've already said you don't really like sushi so the fact that you can't tell the difference isn't really surprising. What I'll say is that not all expensive sushi places are worth the price and some of the cheaper places are amazing. The chains can really be hit or miss though and sometimes it depends on the location. I too try to avoid chains on principle unless I'm with a big group or they're the only thing open at three in the morning. Also, they usually aren't that cheap unless they're running a special like when Sushi Zanmai does the half-price maguro fair. But at least you know what you're paying.

That brings me to another thing that's annoying at nicer sushi places. No menus or prices lists. But I guess if you have to ask you can't afford it. It is annoying though when you finish off an omakase and a couple of more pieces a la carte nearly double the bill.

[kurogane]

All good points, esp. about the difference between that sort of Shaki Shaki Edokko teasing and plain old crappy service, especially the haughty style that the yuppies love. I have taken a few picky eater friends to cheaper good places like that and the next visit I always got a pretty good dressing down, but it was more of an inclusive You Should Know Better than snottiness, especially with the thin margins they have, as you said.

Anyways, for a friendly ball busting I recommend this place in Sakuradai on the Seibu Ikebukuro Line. It might be out of your way, but the couple is really nice and there is a definite Shitamachi Chaki Chaki vibe with really good properly priced fish. My ex is from Bumpkinland where fresh fish is cheap and clean and she always raved about it.

http://uogashi-sushi.com/

FAO Yanpa: I think that's out your way, non!??? Highly recommended though I haven't been since His Majesty was lithe and spry.

WARNING: do not tell the chef you like lots of wasabi. That was the only time I felt like he was fucking with me, because we ended up with inedible pieces we had to pay for anyways, though his wife dressed him down a few times and made him make up for it so maybe it's all part of the act.

[Samurai_Jerk]

All good points, esp. about the difference between that sort of Shaki Shaki Edokko teasing and plain old crappy service, especially the haughty style that the yuppies love. I have taken a few picky eater friends to cheaper good places like that and the next visit I always got a pretty good dressing down, but it was more of an inclusive You Should Know Better than snottiness, especially with the thin margins they have, as you said.

Anyways, for a friendly ball busting I recommend this place in Sakuradai on the Seibu Ikebukuro Line. It might be out of your way, but the couple is really nice and there is a definite Shitamachi Chaki Chaki vibe with really good properly priced fish. My ex is from Bumpkinland where fresh fish is cheap and clean and she always raved about it.

http://uogashi-sushi.com/

FAO Yanpa: I think that's out your way, non!??? Highly recommended though I haven't been since His Majesty was lithe and spry.

WARNING: do not tell the chef you like lots of wasabi. That was the only time I felt like he was fucking with me, because we ended up with inedible pieces we had to pay for anyways, though his wife dressed him down a few times and made him make up for it so maybe it's all part of the act.

That is out of the way and interestingly enough has the same name as a sushi place in Katsushika-ku that was recommended to me. I haven't been yet though knowing the guy who recommended it it's probably similar to your spot.

[kurogane]

Google results suggest it's one of those loose chain arrangements; perhaps a single top owner or for purchasing economies??

Anyways, if you ever get lost in the wild west you won't starve, but you might die of Nerima on the brain.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Maybe this is what Babushka Cyka was talking about.

In order to reserve a seat at the tiny Sukiyabashi Jiro, you’ll not only have to book a month in advance, but also have a Japanese local (a friend or your hotel concierge) vouch for you. To confirm your reservation, your Japanese contact needs to deliver ¥20,000 (about $200) to Jiro himself.

Of course just because Yahoo News said it doesn't mean it's true.

[kurogane]

A bunch of you guys should phone them and try to make a reservation. And if they say no, phone them a lot.

As for that vouching requirement, that is the Ichigenya problem, which is hardly limited to foreigners. It's the snob appeal thing we were discussing above. It's certainly SOP in Kyoto. So there's another overrated place I can cross of my list of places to go

[Yokohammer]

Sone interesting comments about Jiro's joint:

The Man Who Has Eaten At Every Michelin 3-Star Restaurant Says The 'Jiro Dreams Of Sushi' Spot Is Not Worth The Hype

[Coligny]

Maybe this is what Babushka Cyka was talking about.

In order to reserve a seat at the tiny Sukiyabashi Jiro, you’ll not only have to book a month in advance, but also have a Japanese local (a friend or your hotel concierge) vouch for you. To confirm your reservation, your Japanese contact needs to deliver ¥20,000 (about $200) to Jiro himself.

Of course just because Yahoo News said it doesn't mean it's true.

Tee hee...

Bringing da sexay back...

image.jpg

Ok, maybe not...

image.jpg

Adorb'

image.jpg

[Samurai_Jerk]

Sone interesting comments about Jiro's joint:

The Man Who Has Eaten At Every Michelin 3-Star Restaurant Says The 'Jiro Dreams Of Sushi' Spot Is Not Worth The Hype

While there's no question that diners are eating some of the freshest and most perfectly prepared fish

Yeah, but that kind of tells you the person who wrote it doesn't really know what she's talking about.

Foreigners who don’t speak Japanese, known as gaijin, have a hard time getting a reservation

I guess I'm not a gaijin.

Anyway, I've heard mixed things about Jiro too. It might not be as good as people say but I also think there's that tendency among snobs to be contrarian not like anything that's popular. Like the guy who loves that alternative band till it becomes successful.

As for the no foreigners thing, what I have heard is that it's more an unwritten policy of not allowing people who aren't accompanied by a Japanese speaker. However, my American friend and his wife who speak no Japanese had no problems when they went. They did book through a five star hotel concierge but they went unaccompanied. Plus he's a chef and they're both Asian so they probably aren't picky eaters with stupid questions about gluten and the like. So I'm not sure if that's really a policy or whether miscommunication due to the language barrier has created this impression.

I think criticisms that it's impossible to book unless you speak Japanese are unfair. It's not up to the restaurant to make sure they have English speakers (or speakers of any other language) working there. Same with criticisms that they can't communicate with with non-Japanese speaking customers. Although they should probably indicate this on their English homepage. My guess is the people who show up and eat what they're given without complaining or asking lots of unnecessary questions do fine. And if you have a request like no shrimp due to an allergy that's probably also fine. But if you go for an omakase and start saying you don't want squid because the texture bothers you, and you don't want bonito because it's too fishy, and you don't want salmon roe because it's too salty, and you want less rice in the nigiri because you're on a low carb diet and don't want to overdo it on your cheat day, you're an asshole.

Anyway, the place I really want to try is Sushi Saito. I've heard nothing but good things from people I trust. Who wants to treat me?

[kurogane]

　　

While there's no question that diners are eating some of the freshest and most perfectly prepared fish

Yeah, but that kind of tells you the person who wrote it doesn't really know what she's talking about.

Ｔｈａｔ　ｓｅｅｍｓ　ａ　ｔｏｕｃｈ　ｐｒｅｍａｔｕｒｅ　ｇｉｖｅｎ　ｔｈａｔ　ｔｈｅ　ｗｒｉｔｅｒ　ｄｉｄｎ’ｔ　ｅｖｅｎ　ｕｓｅ　ｔｈｅ　ｗｏｒｄｓ delicate, subtle or exquisite..........but...........................

　　

Foreigners who don’t speak Japanese, known as gaijin, have a hard time getting a reservation　

Oh......... My bad, you win. whadda maroon.

So, out of curiosity, since I don't even really like it so much, why does that first sentence tell us she doesn't know what she's talking about? Just curious. It helps me giggle harder when I read articles like that.

As a summary of the general problem, I agree it is linguistic and perhaps cultural in nature. One thing few people seem to note, especially on that Tokyo Cheapo comment page, is that most shops are not worried that You or I will be a problem or cause a ruckus; it's that they honestly don't feel they will be able to serve us in a manner worthy of their lofty reputation. It's a face thing, not a FU thing. Call it silly, call it weird, but don't bother trying to call it insincere or cynical, unless you want to go full Debito. But don't do what the obvious mail order bride (Blanka WTFyabayashi) did on the Tokyo Cheapo page and say it's because foreigners are bad customers. Aside from the fact that it's stupid it just makes you look like a putz.

Which brings us full circle: from the sounds of most of the arguments for the defence they should have let Mo bring Curly and Larry, so in this particular instance they get a fail.

PS No F'in way I am treating a man to dinner but if I can finagle a date to go with me I'll buy you a Bud for the reference Can you order properly or is it all Shogun style HERE! EAT THIS!!!!!!!!!!!! I don't mind an Omakase for a quick lunch but if I am spending real money I am too picky and not slavishly striving enough to writhe in masochistic ecstasy as an overrated prima donna feeds me crap I don't like anways.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Not all fish are best fresh. At least not according to sushi chefs. A lot of fish is aged before serving it. Her sentence would be the equivalent of saying a fine Chicago steakhouse serves the freshest beef.