The racism of a kimono

[wagyl]

Takechan has an interesting way of showing support. I still haven't seen anything to dislodge the feeling I got way back in the beginning that Takechan is culturally western and just putting on slanteyes in his text. Actual skin colour is of course moot: there is no way of knowing that.

[Coligny]

.
i would support them on big-picture

Sure....

Idiots of the world... UNITE !

(count me in on the jimbe crowd...

[matsuki]

they apparently went excessive on this case. .but you guys should watch the whole flow
racially inappropriate things about yellows, which never be allowed on black and hispanic, are overlooked and tolerated in public and the stereotypes are reproduced on an enlarged scale. japanese are insensitive about this kind of issues. and instead chinese and the other asians do it.
i would support them on big-picture

There's a pretty clear line between racial assery and playing dress-up with some cultural relics. Nothing racial here except the idiots that are offended that non-asians would dare be interested in a foreign culture.

What gets me is the (never been to China before in their lives) "chinese-americans" trying to speak for actual Japanese and claim it's offensive to portray the culture is unique and exotic...when most Japanese won't find anything offensive about the effort and are more likely to portray their own country as unique and different(exotic)...not to mention tell you "we're not Chinese!"

[Takechanpoo]

probably they are still just students and just just are doing trial and error.

[Samurai_Jerk]

probably they are still just students and just just are doing trial and error.

Which is even more reason for people to tell them to STFU.

[matsuki]

Getting upset over the word "oriental" is the same as getting upset over "western(er)"...

I remember when using the word "oriental" suddenly became racist. I was in junior high and referred to someone as oriental in front of my Chinese-American friend. She told me it was "Asian" and it was racist use oriental. She claimed it had roots in the term "disoriented." I knew that was bullshit and wondered why it couldn't mean "oriented" but knew better than to argue with her. She also used to get mad if a guy held a door for her and she ended up going to a performing arts high school.

During my high school days, I took an Amtrak train up to the bay area to visit with friend. There was a nutty/chatty Chai-knee American girl on there that kept chatting me up. She was claiming to be some sort of dancer or something like that and kept putting headphones on and doing all these stretches and jumps in the aisle.(there weren't many people around) After awhile, one of the Amtrak staff came by and asked her to stop...was pretty polite about it and said it was dangerous if the train needed to suddenly stop or something. The girl sat back down for a bit, then got up and went below to continue her practice, stretching or whatever it was she was doing. She came back about 15 mins later, all pouty and bothered...soon followed by the same Amtrak staff, this time in firm bitch mode and saying something about the conductor not tolerating another violation of their rules. By this time, the train had stopped at a few places and the car we were seated in was pretty crowded....so you think the embarrassment of a very public chastisement, a second warning, might convince her to give it up but....after the staff left, she went back downstairs.

The last time the conductor showed up himself...with two police officers....he was firm but never raised his voice, just explained he had called the police to assist in having her removed from the train for violating the safety rules and ignoring the numerous warnings of his staff.

She looked at the cops and immediately went into this poor victim rant about how she was being oppressed because she was an Asian female and the evil white male conductor was clearly racist, sexist, she had done nothing wrong.

The conductor pulled out his wallet and then said "I'm oppressing you because you're an Asian female?"

She quickly replied "Yes! Obviously! You're a misogynist and a racist! I'm going to report you! I might sue Amtrak for discrimination!"

The conductor opened his wallet and showed everyone the family picture inside. "My wife is Chinese, my children are half. Back when we got married, there was real oppression and racism. We were called names, had garbage thrown at us, and had our home vandalized. You have no idea what oppression is or how good you have it in this country now. Now get off my train."

The girl went totally silent as the officers escorted her off the train. I bet it's the only time in her life she's been unable to speak. (she was clearly upset but had nothing to say) As soon as she was off the train and the door closed, there was a collective "Ohhhhhhhhh daaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaam!"

Was my first experience with these types but it still stands out since she was so completely shut down in front of a trainload of people.

[Mike Oxlong]

"My wife is Chinese, my children are half.

No way he said it like that.

[Samurai_Jerk]

"My wife is Chinese, my children are half.

No way he said it like that.

I was thinking the exact same thing.

[matsuki]

Might have been "half Chinese" but same difference, no?

[Mike Oxlong]

Might have been "half Chinese" but same difference, no?

Definitely would have been that, or part Chinese, or have Chinese blood in their veins...some such American iteration. Makes the story more real, vous ne pensez pas? I'm assuming you understand a little Freedom.

[matsuki]

Might have been "half Chinese" but same difference, no?

Definitely would have been that, or part Chinese, or have Chinese blood in their veins...some such American iteration. Makes the story more real, vous ne pensez pas? I'm assuming you understand a little Freedom.

That's just the 7+ years of haafu being drilled into my brain.

[kurogane]

probably they are still just students and just just are doing trial and error.

Which is even more reason for people to tell them to STFU.

That has been the biggest disappointment of this whole schlabozzle: the violence they have done to perfectly good and useful social theory offended me more than the visual violence of that fat chick in the Mikan Ice cream cone costume, but it seems nobody has called them out on being mentally mediocre and intellectually emospastic. Ethnic Studies is usually Bleeding Obvious rubbish passed off as social analysis by niche maker academics that couldn't cut it in proper disciplines, but Edward Said was a fine scholar even if he was a bit of a whiney shit as a human, and the central argument of Orientalism is valid, insightful, humane and productive. Instead of just ejecting them from the grounds the Boston MFA actually attempted to engage these window lickers . This is what happens when you have entire swathes of young people that have never been beaten for their sins.

[Taro Toporific]

There has been a long history of kimono cosplay...

Early experimental colour photographer Etheldreda Laing
"Two girls in Oriental costume" (1908)

kimono-cosplay.jpg

Via telegraph.co.uk/culture/photography...

Of course, one of these girls doing kimono cosplay is dead since folding the left side under the right is used only for the deceased at funerals.

incorrect-kimono-cosplay.jpg

[Samurai_Jerk]

Of kimono and cultural appropriation

Fifteen years ago I visited Nishijin, Kyoto’s famed kimono manufacturing quarter with my then host family. I had just finished reading Yasunari Kawabata’s “The Old City,” a novel steeped in Kyoto’s kimono culture; its main character Chieko is the adopted daughter of a kimono merchant. I misunderstood the novel’s elegiac tone, and naively expected to see the Nishijin that Kawabata knew 50 years ago.

I got a rude shock. The district looked gutted, there were apartment buildings everywhere and only a few traditional dwellings and workshops in between. We passed a kimono merchant’s house that was being demolished. “There’s Chieko’s home,” I said.

We visited one kimono workshop and the owner kindly agreed to show us around. His family had owned the workshop for 140 years, he said, and now times were tough; customers were dwindling and nearby workshops were closing down. We saw a computer programmed jacquard loom, and on it there lay the answer to some questions I had in my mind — an exquisitely beautiful kimono obi worth $8,000.

Japan’s kimono industry has long been in decline. After 1945, Japanese women abandoned their role as bearers of Japan’s fashion traditions and embraced Western styles, and the market for high-end kimono is now collapsing as wealthy customers opt for cheaper, more casual fashion.

A recent Asahi Shimbun article explained that between 1982 and 2012 kimono sales declined from ¥2 trillion to one tenth of that figure, and kimono tailors’ numbers fell from 6,300 in 1984 to 1,351 in 2014.

[...]

For the Japanese tour, NHK commissioned some gorgeously embroidered uchikake like the one Monet’s wife wears in the painting, and patrons were invited to try them on and be photographed in front of the painting.

After the painting returned to its home in the Boston Museum of Fine Arts, it was exhibited again in late June with the kimono try-on sessions scheduled to continue into July as “Kimono Wednesdays” for American patrons.

Then something off-script occurred. A small group of young protesters, mostly Asian-Americans, came to the first Kimono Wednesday event with placards to protest its “Orientalism,” “racism” and “cultural appropriation” which they claimed was victimizing Asian-Americans.

The protesters created a Facebook page, “Stand Against Yellowface,” and posted sophomoric manifestos on Tumblr featuring tone-deaf karaoke of their hero: the Palestinian scholar Edward Said, author of “Orientalism,” a central text for postcolonial theory syllabuses in American liberal arts faculties.

[...]

Japanese-Americans, Japanese residents in the United States and their supporters counter-protested at the museum and on social media in vain. Counter-protesters pointed out that very few of the protesters were Japanese, and that they had no right to dictate what counted as racism or cultural appropriation against Japanese or Japanese-Americans. They complained that the protesters had chosen the wrong event to protest against with their parochial identity politics agenda.

[...]

Japanese social media briefly lit up in exasperation and bewilderment. People were mystified that anyone could accuse a kimono try-on event of being racist or imperialist. Few comprehended the identity politics assumptions driving the protesters. Some right-wing nationalists assumed they were anti-Japanese Chinese and Korean agitators.

Perhaps for the mainstream Japanese media and for many fashion commentators such a controversy is of little concern, being just another inexplicable skirmish in America’s culture wars. But it is more than that; if casual yukata styles are to attract foreign consumers who are also sensitive to social justice issues, a clear message needs to be communicated to them by Japanese supporters of the industry.

That message, recently iterated to me by an employee at the Nishijin Textiles Center in Kyoto, is this: Anyone can appropriate and creatively modify kimono styles whenever and however they like.

This message should be broadcast to counter those who misguidedly oppose the appropriation of Japan’s fashion traditions by “the West.” Japanese are not the West’s victims, and the kimono industry is ill-served by obsessions about Orientalism and politically correct “understanding.”

Kaori Nakano, a professor of fashion history at Meiji University put it to me this way: “Cultural appropriation is the beginning of new creativity. Even if it includes some misunderstanding, it creates something new.” It may be the key to the future of kimono fashion.

[inflames]

I know some of the Nishijin kimono places - the market for kimonos is 5% peak size in the 70s and other traditional goods is around 3% of the peak size. Not only is a kimono a pain in the ass to put on, but not too many people want to buy a handmade kimono (MSRP: 3,000,000 yen). Stuff like kiyomizu yaki runs 10,000 yen for a cup.

Young people aren't overly interested in it (if you've ever seen people making a kimono you'd understand why) and tons of places have closed. The ones that are open have expanded into making other items using the techniques (one place, for example, sells fabric to luxury brands).

[matsuki]

a handmade kimono (MSRP: 3,000,000 yen)

Young people aren't overly interested in it

Even if they were....the costs are just insane. I want to say the period of charging outrageous pricing on many things here is nearing it's end but I still see insane level pricing on some things that seem to be catering to some nutty rich customers that don't seem to exist anymore.

[inflames]

3,000,000 yen is the MSRP at a department store for a handmade (and hand-dyed) kimono - it takes quite a lot of work. Most department stores don't even have those kimonos and, if they do, won't show them to you without asking. It's a multistep process that basically involves painting the kimono (with dye, of course).

The distribution system is fucked up - basically it goes through a ton of middlemen, and in the end the manufacturer gets very little. They'll actually sell them to you directly for 600,000 yen or so.

[matsuki]

The distribution system is fucked up - basically it goes through a ton of middlemen, and in the end the manufacturer gets very little.

Exactly....you'd think with the net, that fucked distribution network would start to fall apart as dealers/customers could buy direct....but that only seems to be happening in a few industries and even then, it's not quite the revolution it is in other countries.

[Taro Toporific]

The evils of cultural appropriation: 'Bearded Hipsters* in Silky Kimonos'...

Bearded Men in Silky Kimonos' is a Pin-Up Calendar For Lovers of Hirsute Men
Broadly | Nov. 16, 2015
Kate Cooper-Owen came up with the idea when staying at a friend's house. Her friend's boyfriend sidled into the kitchen in the morning in a silken robe: "It had this beautiful cherry blossom pattern on it," she remembers. "It wasn't a kimono in the strictest sense, but it was such a amazing look. I pretty much said on the spot, 'This should be a calendar.'" Just over a year later, the 2016 calendar is now in the pre-order phase, shot by fashion photographer Woland...more...

bearded-men-in-silky-kimonos-body-image-1447674494.jpg

*Full disclosure: I have a very full goatee.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Japanese student learns how to be a real American college kid

Some students at Oberlin College in Ohio are outraged that some of the Asian dishes served at the school are not authentic enough, which they say amounts to cultural appropriation.

[...]

Tomoyo Joshi, a Japanese junior, said that the undercooked rice and absence of fresh fish in the school's sushi is a sign of disrespect.

“When you’re cooking a country’s dish for other people, including ones who have never tried the original dish before, you’re also representing the meaning of the dish as well as its culture,” Joshi stated. “So if people not from that heritage take food, modify it and serve it as ‘authentic,’ it is appropriative.”

[Yokohammer]

Japanese student learns how to be a real American college kid

Some students at Oberlin College in Ohio are outraged that some of the Asian dishes served at the school are not authentic enough, which they say amounts to cultural appropriation.

[...]

Tomoyo Joshi, a Japanese junior, said that the undercooked rice and absence of fresh fish in the school's sushi is a sign of disrespect.

“When you’re cooking a country’s dish for other people, including ones who have never tried the original dish before, you’re also representing the meaning of the dish as well as its culture,” Joshi stated. “So if people not from that heritage take food, modify it and serve it as ‘authentic,’ it is appropriative.”

Absolutely! And from now on everyone must use the correct pronunciation of Japanese words like typhoon and sushi and kimono! Improper pronunciation is disrespectful!

Of course that goes the other way too, so all adopted western words must be pronounced to perfection by the Japanese. And for god's sake, corn on pizza is an affront to all Italians! Sutoppu za cultural appropriation!

[wagyl]

or as I always say, "Sutoppu za Kazari Eigo!"

Hammer, as a cisgender heterosexual white male, you have no right to dictate! Check your privilege!

[Yokohammer]

I used to play a game with some of my carpenter buddies while sucking up a few beers back in the Yokohama days (no more drinking ... no more beer ... sigh ...). Anyway, the game was that anytime anyone used gairaigo they had to put 100 yen in the pot. First timers were alway quite sure that it'd be no problem for them, but after they'd put about 1000 yen in the pot within the first 10 minutes or so they weren't so sure. We just ended up drinking the money anyway, but it was great fun and quite revealing at the same time. It is astonishing just how much English and other languages have crept into the Japanese vernacular ... especially to the natives. Take that away and they can barely communicate.

[Samurai_Jerk]

Japanese words like typhoon

Not so fast. The etymology of typhoon isn't clear but it's definitely not Japanese in origin.

[Russell]

Japanese student learns how to be a real American college kid

Some students at Oberlin College in Ohio are outraged that some of the Asian dishes served at the school are not authentic enough, which they say amounts to cultural appropriation.

[...]

Tomoyo Joshi, a Japanese junior, said that the undercooked rice and absence of fresh fish in the school's sushi is a sign of disrespect.

“When you’re cooking a country’s dish for other people, including ones who have never tried the original dish before, you’re also representing the meaning of the dish as well as its culture,” Joshi stated. “So if people not from that heritage take food, modify it and serve it as ‘authentic,’ it is appropriative.”

And I do like the name of the director of Business Operations and Dining Services at the school: Michele Gross!

[kurogane]

　　

　　
Tomoyo Joshi, a Japanese junior, said that the undercooked rice and absence of fresh fish in the school's sushi is a sign of disrespect.

Of course that goes the other way too, so all adopted western words must be pronounced to perfection by the Japanese. And for god's sake, corn on pizza is an affront to all Italians! Sutoppu za cultural appropriation!

MMmmmmmm........Corn Pizza and Wasei Eigo.......sadly, 5 bucks says the kid in question would look at you in blankfaced confusion if you bothered to try and press the point. More importantly, more than he is integrating to the states like SJ said, is he not being culturally appropriational by adopting the American victimhood culture?

Pondersome, this. Very Pondersome.

[Yokohammer]

Japanese words like typhoon

Not so fast. The etymology of typhoon isn't clear but it's definitely not Japanese in origin.

Oh well ... scratch that one then.

Anime! Cosplay! Please pronounce in the correct Japanese manner, thank you.

[Samurai_Jerk]

he is integrating

She you patriarchal white scum.

Tomoyo Joshi is currently a senior majoring in Gender Sexuality and Feminist Study.

[...]

Even now, I am all too familiar with the privilege, opportunity, and power that this English provides me. Writing these words, thinking about language, in English, pains me, especially because I’m not sure if I could write this as accurately and concisely in Japanese. But I think I’ve come to terms that I will never really be “fluent enough”; I will constantly feel frustrated, one way or another. But what both languages have given me is more words to be myself, and so, while this is not a conclusion of any sorts (and in an attempt to provide a meaningful conclusion to this post) I know that I will always struggle with language and identity.

[wagyl]

he is integrating

She you patriarchal white scum.

Tomoyo Joshi is currently a senior majoring in Gender Sexuality and Feminist Study.

[...]

Even now, I am all too familiar with the privilege, opportunity, and power that this English provides me. Writing these words, thinking about language, in English, pains me, especially because I’m not sure if I could write this as accurately and concisely in Japanese. But I think I’ve come to terms that I will never really be “fluent enough”; I will constantly feel frustrated, one way or another. But what both languages have given me is more words to be myself, and so, while this is not a conclusion of any sorts (and in an attempt to provide a meaningful conclusion to this post) I know that I will always struggle with language and identity.

And that, right there, is empowerment. It makes you swell with pride, just to be there to witness it.

It will be interesting to see how well such power transfers to workplace skills.

[kurogane]

I almost regret I never got to supervise any of those babble monkeys. Some of them had real promise, but the lure of The Dogma simply overpowers weaker minds. WTF is she on about there anyways? That looks like blatant plagiarism to me.

Good point there by Wagyl about the applicability to work and life. We always taught that theory was there to inform your thinking, not replace it.